Ultimates V2 #9 discussion (SPOILERS!!)

[Random]

Where has Odin been? Good point. What's interesting is that Fury has one eye, just like Odin. But we all knew that. What we perhaps didn't all know is that Tyr the god of war and honour only had one arm. Whether the story of how he lost the arm is or importance or not, I dunno, but I do see a Fury parallel.

Interesting...

 

[Wilber]

Hi all.
I just read the issue, and really like the role that Pietro and Wanda played.

But what bothers me is that Tony requested Jarvis bring an Ostrich omelette and champagne. Instead he brings a single soft-boiled quail egg, toast, and orange juice.

I don't know WHAT that implies, but somehting is up.
And Tony would never,ever have any room without any voice-activated stuff in it.

And I laughed at the Widow's panties.

Bill

 

[E]

Where has Odin been? Good point. What's interesting is that Fury has one eye, just like Odin. But we all knew that. What we perhaps didn't all know is that Tyr the god of war and honour only had one arm. Whether the story of how he lost the arm is or importance or not, I dunno, but I do see a Fury parallel.

COOOOOOOOOOOL!

 

[DIrishB]

-Apparently people are assuming that Millar is trying to send a liberal message with this story. I don't think that's necessarily true. What I see the message being is that violence can't stop violence. Yes, America has horribly mistreated other countries but if they retaliate with terrorism, they're simply creating more violence. They attack us, we form the Ultimates, they build up arms, we invade them, and now they invade America. Millar's showing that there is a cycle of violence going on and no one is willing to back down and stop it. He's not "taking a side", he's actually going against both sides.

THAT deserves Post of the Day. Not funny at all, but completely true and hits the nail on the head. Kudos, Moony. You the man.

Where has Odin been? Good point. What's interesting is that Fury has one eye, just like Odin. But we all knew that. What we perhaps didn't all know is that Tyr the god of war and honour only had one arm. Whether the story of how he lost the arm is or importance or not, I dunno, but I do see a Fury parallel.

Very interesting...very.

That story is called the harrowing of hell and it's not actually in the bible but has been part of the whole christiantity mythos for a long time. Funny, I was just talking about this yesterday in regards to the scene in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe where Aslan busts all of the stoned people out of the witch's castle.

I didn't know CS was down with the buddha. Now I'll definitly have to see that movie.

 

[Bass]

-I believe it was suggested that Darth Red's "lightsaber" is really just a staff. I think this is the most likely explaination. Last night I tried to draw Darth Red (cuz his costume rocks) and I ended up trying to make it a staff. (I gave up on the drawing though, because Hitch is a bastard and his designs are really hard to reproduce. I nearly went insane trying to draw Ultimate Iron Man)

:lol: You rock so much Mooney. You're right - Darth Red is super cool.

-Where has Odin been? According to Thor, all of this has happened because his father's "gaze was elsewhere". I predict that Odin will appear to Thor in his cell, probably dressed in a business suit or some other appropriate modern garb (much like Volstagg). He'll tell his son where he's been and how he can finally claim his true powers. Next thing you know, Thor has hair, a full beard and a more "classic" costume. He simply obliterates his cell with a burst of lightning and leaves his cell to find his brother and save the world. It would also make sense if he's the one who frees Cap, much like Jesus freeing people from hell after he was resurrected (I believe that happened...can soemone verify it?). At the moment we can only speculate what Odin's distraction has been.

According to the Chitauri, war is everywhere. I assume Odin's gaze is drawn to more heavenly matters - unless of course, Thor is wrong. Odin could be watching and choosing not to intervene for his own reasons. It's possible Thor is assuming something he doesn't know.

-Apparently people are assuming that Millar is trying to send a liberal message with this story. I don't think that's necessarily true. What I see the message being is that violence can't stop violence. Yes, America has horribly mistreated other countries but if they retaliate with terrorism, they're simply creating more violence. They attack us, we form the Ultimates, they build up arms, we invade them, and now they invade America. Millar's showing that there is a cycle of violence going on and no one is willing to back down and stop it. He's not "taking a side", he's actually going against both sides.

This is exactly what I was saying, spot on. Pre-emption vs Retaliation - They're both wrong. There comes a point where "you started it" no longer matters.

Where has Odin been? Good point. What's interesting is that Fury has one eye, just like Odin. But we all knew that. What we perhaps didn't all know is that Tyr the god of war and honour only had one arm. Whether the story of how he lost the arm is or importance or not, I dunno, but I do see a Fury parallel.

That's ****ing brilliant - like the Giant Men as Loki's Norse Giants.

Too bad it's not going to be part of the story. No way Millar thinks that deep.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Liberalism isn't by default a stand against American imperialism.
Millar is saying that if you live by the sword, you die by the sword. Using violence and terror tactics preemptively will almost certainly return in kind.
All Millar is doing is clarifying that the US has brought this invasion upon itself and that there really aren't any good guys. After all, these Anti-Ultimates are just defending themselves, by attacking the US preemptively, just as the US was claiming that it was doing to other countries.
It's lose/lose.

Fury brought it on himself. Not America.

Where has Odin been? Good point. What's interesting is that Fury has one eye, just like Odin. But we all knew that. What we perhaps didn't all know is that Tyr the god of war and honour only had one arm. Whether the story of how he lost the arm is or importance or not, I dunno, but I do see a Fury parallel.

Damn that's good.

I kind am hopeing that Odin just never appears. Something that will have the non believers still declaring Thor/Loki fakes and I think it's out of character for the chief god to make an appearance. Leave him a mystery and Thor his messanger. Only way I want to see any hint of Odin is a raven.

 

[Ice]

I was thinking about this, this morning. Someone (MWF, I believe) said something about there should be a Spidey mention since the FF and X-Men got one. Well, I don't think he really should since Spidey isn't as known as the FF or X-Men. The world knows about the FF and X-Men (really more X-Men than the FF). Spidey's really just known where he lives. There's more of a chance of someone knowing about the X-Men in another country than knowing about Spider-Man.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

I was thinking about this, this morning. Someone (MWF, I believe) said something about there should be a Spidey mention since the FF and X-Men got one. Well, I don't think he really should since Spidey isn't as known as the FF or X-Men. The world knows about the FF and X-Men (really more X-Men than the FF). Spidey's really just known where he lives. There's more of a chance of someone knowing about the X-Men in another country than knowing about Spider-Man.

In my case I wasn't talking about a "mention" from characters. I think he should show up and we should get a look at him.

 

[Ice]

In my case I wasn't talking about a "mention" from characters. I think he should show up and we should get a look at him.

Ah, ok. I couldn't remember exactly what was said, and was too lazy to search the pages.

As for showing up, do you mean like a cameo? Cuz for that, a cameo wouldn't hurt.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

As for showing up, do you mean like a cameo? Cuz for that, a cameo wouldn't hurt.

Yeah.

 

[Ice]

Yeah.

Than I'm right there with you. I mean, this is happening in his "backyard", he has to notice this happening, obviously. You'd know he'd try to fight the baddies.

I really hope we get a mention of this in the other teams' books. I want to see how the FF and X-Men feel about this happening to them (being subdued [sp?] and all).

 

[MoS]

I really hope we get a mention of this in the other teams' books. I want to see how the FF and X-Men feel about this happening to them (being subdued [sp?] and all).

This is where I think Marvel tends to screw up continuity. It makes sense that other teams might get a quick cameo in Ultimates, as they would naturally be involved in something this large scale. They don't have to be integral to the plot and we really don't need more than a glimpse. (Especially since that would just slow down the pacing in Ultimates.) And in the other titles the events don't need much more than a passing remark that acknowledges something big happened and is over. That would effectively tie the books together into a more cohesive universe and yet NOT require story arcs to alter for things going on in other books.

 

[Ice]

This is where I think Marvel tends to screw up continuity. It makes sense that other teams might get a quick cameo in Ultimates, as they would naturally be involved in something this large scale. They don't have to be integral to the plot and we really don't need more than a glimpse. (Especially since that would just slow down the pacing in Ultimates.) And in the other titles the events don't need much more than a passing remark that acknowledges something big happened and is over. That would effectively tie the books together into a more cohesive universe and yet NOT require story arcs to alter for things going on in other books.

Exactly!

 

[E.Vi.L.]

I am so glad "Darth Red" caught on!

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Exactly!

what he said.

 

[Pandrio]

Hi all.

:rockon::rockon::rockon:Welcome Wilbur!!!:rockon::rockon::rockon: Only 5 more members until 500.

 

[Guijllons]

Fury brought it on himself. Not America.

But the Ultimates are funded directly by the government. Fury has his orders too, he doesn't just choose to deploy troops in the middle east himself.
As I said before, the world is full of grey organisations, full of just causes and indefensible means. The truth is that America attacked a country preemptively, just in case. And what are the Antis doing? Attacking America, jut in case they attack them next. That's what's happening. The difference only being that the Antis (whatever) are probably not acting directly under their governments like the Ultimates are.

You can't argue the point, that's what's happening.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

But the Ultimates are funded directly by the government. Fury has his orders too, he doesn't just choose to deploy troops in the middle east himself.
As I said before, the world is full of grey organisations, full of just causes and indefensible means. The truth is that America attacked a country preemptively, just in case. And what are the Antis doing? Attacking America, jut in case they attack them next. That's what's happening. The difference only being that the Antis (whatever) are probably not acting directly under their governments like the Ultimates are.

You can't argue the point, that's what's happening.

Didn't read the annual?

 

[Guijllons]

Didn't read the annual?

Yes, that was in regards to the superhuman build up., which only exacerbated an already existing situation.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Yes, that was in regards to the superhuman build up., which only exacerbated an already existing situation.

Fury was told to stay out of Iraq. It said so in the Ultimates 2 #1. Fury was creating his own force and wouldn't be bothered by other people. He totally took matters into his own hands. "America" had just as much to do with this "retaliation" as the other countries did dishing it out. I think one of the themes Millar is trying to create is "creating your own monsters" with the supersoldier programs getting lives of their own.