Ultimates V2 #9 discussion (SPOILERS!!)

TheManWithoutFear said:
Fury was told to stay out of Iraq. It said so in the Ultimates 2 #1. Fury was creating his own force and wouldn't be bothered by other people. He totally took matters into his own hands. "America" had just as much to do with this "retaliation" as the other countries did dishing it out. I think one of the themes Millar is trying to create is "creating your own monsters" with the supersoldier programs getting lives of their own.
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What does it say specifically in Ultimates 2 #1? And come on, I know this is a comic book, but a General in charge of an strike force of the strength of the Ultimates cannot deploy them as he wishes without at least consulting the governing body. I only say that the others are not working in the same capacity because of the can of worms Millar would open if he fictionalised China openly attacking America, he wouldn't do that.

But yeah, the theme is absolutely about creating your own monsters, and that's a lesson I wish a lot of people would really sit down with and try to understand.
 
Rhyo said:
This is where I think Marvel tends to screw up continuity. It makes sense that other teams might get a quick cameo in Ultimates, as they would naturally be involved in something this large scale. They don't have to be integral to the plot and we really don't need more than a glimpse. (Especially since that would just slow down the pacing in Ultimates.) And in the other titles the events don't need much more than a passing remark that acknowledges something big happened and is over. That would effectively tie the books together into a more cohesive universe and yet NOT require story arcs to alter for things going on in other books.
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I personally think the mentions of the F4 and the X-Men has possibly been too much already. I truly hope that there's absolutely, no mention of them again.
 
Bass said:
I personally think the mentions of the F4 and the X-Men has possibly been too much already. I truly hope that there's absolutely, no mention of them again.
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They don't have to be mentioned again in the Ultimates. Just the mention they gave is plenty enough. But in the UFF & UXM books, just a mention there at least (if no one shows about it in their books) about that situation would be good enough.
 
Bass said:
I personally think the mentions of the F4 and the X-Men has possibly been too much already. I truly hope that there's absolutely, no mention of them again.
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I'm with you there. After reading Ultimates 1 #1 the other day i felt that the Spiderman frame and the mention of the FF kind cheapened it. These guys are the ****ing ultimates, they're so much more important than a dorky kid in a mask and a team of science geeks.

Hmm, ok, my reasoning might be off, but I agree anyway.
 
I was just thinking along the lines of "use it to turn story, or leave it out".

These issues are 24 pages and come out at random intervals. They can't afford to waste space cross-referencing other titles.
 
icemastertron said:
They worked fine with Vaughan doing it.
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The only one I remember is Vaughan mentioning Ultimate Nightmare which was well done because it turned story. The line a beat-sized turning point towards the negative as Captain America insults the X-Men and tells them to leave. The reference to Nightmare created conflict - story.

Captain America didn't just sit there before the X-Men showed and went, "Man, I remember the time I beat up those X-Men in Ultimate War and later in Ultimate Nightmare, on sale now."
 
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Bass said:
The only one I remember is Vaughan mentioning Ultimate Nightmare which was well done because it turned story. The line a beat-sized turning point towards the negative as Captain America insults the X-Men and tells them to leave. The reference to Nightmare created conflict - story.

Captain America didn't just sit there before the X-Men showed and went, "Man, I remember the time I beat up those X-Men in Ultimate War and later in Ultimate Nightmare, on sale now."
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Yeah, I know. It's what I referred to.
 
icemastertron said:
I was thinking about this, this morning. Someone (MWF, I believe) said something about there should be a Spidey mention since the FF and X-Men got one. Well, I don't think he really should since Spidey isn't as known as the FF or X-Men. The world knows about the FF and X-Men (really more X-Men than the FF). Spidey's really just known where he lives. There's more of a chance of someone knowing about the X-Men in another country than knowing about Spider-Man.
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Have to disagree. He may not be as hyped or as famous, but he did have a movie based off him, so I'd say he's relatively well-known across the world.

Rhyo said:
This is where I think Marvel tends to screw up continuity. It makes sense that other teams might get a quick cameo in Ultimates, as they would naturally be involved in something this large scale. They don't have to be integral to the plot and we really don't need more than a glimpse. (Especially since that would just slow down the pacing in Ultimates.) And in the other titles the events don't need much more than a passing remark that acknowledges something big happened and is over. That would effectively tie the books together into a more cohesive universe and yet NOT require story arcs to alter for things going on in other books.
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I completely agree.

Bass said:
I personally think the mentions of the F4 and the X-Men has possibly been too much already. I truly hope that there's absolutely, no mention of them again.
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You're like the Ultimates fan version of the Aryan Nation.

icemastertron said:
They don't have to be mentioned again in the Ultimates. Just the mention they gave is plenty enough. But in the UFF & UXM books, just a mention there at least (if no one shows about it in their books) about that situation would be good enough.
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Exactly. Again, they did it in the USM "Double Trouble" arc when Kong mentioned Magneto's attack from the first UXM arc. Didn't require you to read the UXM issues for the rest of the story, but was a nice tie-in if you had.

Bass said:
The only one I remember is Vaughan mentioning Ultimate Nightmare which was well done because it turned story. The line a beat-sized turning point towards the negative as Captain America insults the X-Men and tells them to leave. The reference to Nightmare created conflict - story.

Captain America didn't just sit there before the X-Men showed and went, "Man, I remember the time I beat up those X-Men in Ultimate War and later in Ultimate Nightmare, on sale now."
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This is true, but in terms of the other titles the invasion of America by a foreign force is a HUGE story point, which if ignored would cheapen the whole thing in my opinion.
 
Spider-Man has an action figure in Russia.


The enemy has been pulling apart the Ultimates since the beginning

The traitor leaks the information about the Hulk, he is supposedly executed. Loki manipulates the Ultimates to take down Thor, and he becomes a prisoner. Hank joins with the traitor, thus the Ultimates lose another member. The traitor takes Hawkeye out of the game, and someone tampers with the video, so it looks like Captain America was the traitor. Thus, the Ultimates imprison Captain America as well.

At this point, only Black Widow, Wasp and Iron Man remain You can include Nick Fury if you want to.

Now, the enemy invades America, and Black Widow attempts to kill one of the last Ultimates Iron Man, which would leave Wasp and Nick Fury to deal with the enemy.

So, as you can see, the Ultimates should be fighting a downhill battle.
 
ProjectX2 said:
Spider-Man has an action figure in Russia.


The enemy has been pulling apart the Ultimates since the beginning

The traitor leaks the information about the Hulk, he is supposedly executed. Loki manipulates the Ultimates to take down Thor, and he becomes a prisoner. Hank joins with the traitor, thus the Ultimates lose another member. The traitor takes Hawkeye out of the game, and someone tampers with the video, so it looks like Captain America was the traitor. Thus, the Ultimates imprison Captain America as well.

At this point, only Black Widow, Wasp and Iron Man remain You can include Nick Fury if you want to.

Now, the enemy invades America, and Black Widow attempts to kill one of the last Ultimates Iron Man, which would leave Wasp and Nick Fury to deal with the enemy.

So, as you can see, the Ultimates should be fighting a downhill battle.
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Uhhh, yup, thats how its been going.
 
America
India
Malaysia

------------------

China
Argentina
Poland
Tanzania
America
Indonesia
Nigeria
Afghanistan
Mauritania
England
Russia
Ireland
Chechnya
Azerbaijan

------------------------------
Turkey
Haiti
Egypt
Ethiopia
Germany
Rwanda
Ecuador
Albania
Thailand
Romania
Estonia
Togo
Armenia
Denmark
El Salvador
Dominican Republic
Oman
Netherlands
Eritrea
 
John Q. Public said:
Turkey
Haiti
Egypt
Ethiopia
Germany
Rwanda
Ecuador
Albania
Thailand
Romania
Estonia
Togo
Armenia
Denmark
El Salvador
Dominican Republic
Oman
Netherlands
Eritrea
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you forgot an "R" in "retarded". It should read like this:

Turkey
Haiti
Egypt
Ethiopia
Germany
Rwanda
Ecuador
Albania
Thailand
Romania
Estonia
Togo
Armenia
Russia
Denmark
El Salvador
Dominican Republic
Oman
Netherlands
Eritrea

...dumbass.
 
DIrishB said:
you forgot an "R" in "retarded". It should read like this:

Turkey
Haiti
Egypt
Ethiopia
Germany
Rwanda
Ecuador
Albania
Thailand
Romania
Estonia
Togo
Armenia
Russia
Denmark
El Salvador
Dominican Republic
Oman
Netherlands
Eritrea

...dumbass.
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Damn me to hell. Thanks for fixing. Sheesh.
 
I read this, great issue, worth the wait (wish we didn't have to wait so long but anyway)
I didn't like it being so obvious with the tratior, but i think of it was anyone else there would be need of some serious explaining.
 
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