Ultimate Spiderman #101 discussion (Spoilers)

Referenced 2 songs within 3 posts in one day that fits with the topic/mood/posters/whatever-else.

Well, I think we've met our quota.

:lol:
 
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Zombipanda said:
Okay, so I just skimmed some of the thread, so if I missed something, sue me. But I'm going to have to be the odd man out here and disagree with you guys.

To start with, I never liked Bendis. He always came across as the poster-boy for stereotypical comic book writers. He's one of those arrogant, self-absorbed comic writers who takes on a disgusting passive-aggressive stance to any criticism, trying to evoke that "I don't give a ****" aura, when it's obvious he can do it. Warren Ellis can get away with saying he doesn't give a **** because he really DOESN'T GIVE A ****. And even with that said, he still seems to have respect for the fans. Grant Morrison can get away giving people writing history lessons because he's Grant Morrison. Grant's the James Joyce of comic books. Bendis is comics' Tom Clancy.

But that's not the point. I liked this issue.

Seriously guys. You heard it here first. I LIKED THIS ISSUE. I didn't love it, but I liked it alright. Let me start with the bad.... Bendis' portrayal of other people's characters generally sucks ***. Not only does his Nick Fury's personality seem to contradict the Fury we see in the other comics, he's a lame character even without that benchmark to stand up to. He doesn't come across as the badass leader of a high priority government agency who's willing to do anything to get the job done. He comes across as a spoiled, immature kid who's used to getting things his way. And his actions throughout the book have never seemed particularly realistic to me. The FF didn't feel particularly real to me either, although it was nice to see Spidey finally getting respect from other heroes, and Bagley did draw some cool FF shots. Also, the Spider-Slayers are super-lame.

Now, that being said, I liked the issue. I'm one of the people who's thought the Clone Saga up until this point has been pretty mediocre. It just seemed like there was shocking revelation after shocking revelation. All of them seemed tacked on. None came across as particularly interesting to me. Hell, issue 100 bored the hell out of me.

This issue, I thought the battle with the Fantastic Four was pretty excellent, even if they weren't portrayed precisely how I'd like them to be. Tinkerer came across as an interesting variation on his 616 self, even though the kind of character he portrayed is a pretty standard stock type in modern fiction. And I'm glad to see hints that Richard might NOT be Richard, without anyone coming out directly and saying it.

And Mary Jane? Honestly, I'm INTERESTED in seeing Mary Jane turn into a were-goblin, and I'm infinitely more curious about the upcoming "Goblin Queen" arc now than I am about this boring mess of a Clone Saga. There's a lot of talk about how "You can't do that to Mary Jane", but I don't see why not. This is supposed to be the Ultimate Universe. Things are supposed to diverge from 616. The same people here saying they don't want Ultimates to just become the Ultimate version of the Avengers are incredibly pissed that Bendis might be doing something different with Mary Jane.

But I'm not one of those people. There are a few things that need to remain the same in both the Ultimate and mainstream universe. Peter Parker has o get bit by a radioactive spider, lose his uncle, and learn from this that ith great power comes great responsibility. And he needs to be a regular guy trying to balance the responsibility of superheroics with the life of a regular dude. I really don't think Mary Jane is that sacred of a cow. Butcher her. As long as her actions stay consistent with the Ultimate Mary Jane that Bendis has spent 100 issues building, I'm down for it. Turn her into a villain, kill her off, or bring her back to Peter, but do it in a way that organically makes sense with her personality.

Either way, it wasn't a bad issue. It wasn't great, but I'd give it a 3/5, and I thought the final panel was the best part, so sue me.

Even so, I'm worried Bendis will totally ruin it.
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At least he has a reason other than because it's Bendis. If you like it, there's nothing wrong with that. You don't need to explain yourself.

It still makes me die a little inside though. :D

And for the record, I thought it was a fine issue up until the MJ scene.
 
:twisted:

And here I was, thinking today sucked. And then I read this thread. I'm glad a lot of you are finally realising that Bendis is a stupid, arrogant *******.

Bendis said:
i appreciatre that, so let me share with you a little writing lesson.
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That makes me laugh so much. The only good thing Bendis has written is Daredevil and maybe Alias. I haven't bought/read any of his stuff for around a year now.
 
TheManWithoutFear said:
I don't get it.

And I agree with E. I said I liked a lot of it. Peter's emotions, The Fantastic Four... Uh... But the Gwen/Carnage and MJ last page killed it for me.

Where's Bass when you need him and I think I'm about to get banned.
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It just irritates me when people quote big, long diatribes, and follow them up with a few words. No big deal.

I'm curious about where the problem with Mary Jane becoming a monster is. Is it because it's Mary Jane, and she has a long history in the mainstream comic?
 
Zombipanda said:
It just irritates me when people quote big, long diatribes, and follow them up with a few words. No big deal.
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So you think I don't contribute to the site? That's what you said? Sort've a sarcastic remark about being a worthwhile member. Interesting.
I'm curious about where the problem with Mary Jane becoming a monster is. Is it because it's Mary Jane, and she has a long history in the mainstream comic?
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It's because Mary Jane is interesting because she's not superpowered or "special".
 
Zombipanda said:
It just irritates me when people quote big, long diatribes, and follow them up with a few words. No big deal.

I'm curious about where the problem with Mary Jane becoming a monster is. Is it because it's Mary Jane, and she has a long history in the mainstream comic?
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I don't like Mary Jane the monster for the same reason that I don't like Tony Stark the nanomonkey induced human brain. I don't like it when the core concept of an important character is screwed with for no apparent reason. Mary Jane is part of Peter's "real world". Her and Aunt May (and for a short time Gwen Stacy) comprise the normal life Peter returns to after all the craziness of his Spiderman double life. If that's completely ****ed up than everything in his existance is ****ed up and the whole story loses it's grounding. Ask yourself, is there any good that can come out of Mary Jane being Demogoblin? Do you really see this turning into a good storyline down the road? No. It's **** and it was done purely for stupid shock value. Just like when he offed Gwen the first time.
 
Zombipanda said:
I'm curious about where the problem with Mary Jane becoming a monster is. Is it because it's Mary Jane, and she has a long history in the mainstream comic?
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Because it totally destroys what she is to this story as a whole. She plays a part, both to Peter and to Spider-Man if you get what I'm saying. Giving her powers ruins that.

Like I said earlier, why not give Aunt May wings and have her fly to Japan to fight ninjas or something? You don't screw with certain characters.
 
Ice said:
Just want to say, Lynx- they'res no Asgard yet. Yes, it was said we would see it, but people seem to assume its the actual Asgard. We don't know that.
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Touche, Ice. But, it was just a point. Let's replace it with nanomonkeys, and my point is still the same.

Anyways, I'll sum up my thoughts.

I thought what Bendis said to Doc was not only rude, but extremely unprofessional. You don't say things like that, especially when you don't know who you're talking to.

As for changing MJ's character, I talked to a friend about this and he made an interesting point. Have any of you watched the show Loonatics? Its a cartoon where all the famous WB cartoons (Bugs, Daffy, Taz, Coyote, Roadrunner, etc) are all super powered in a bleak future. That's what this feels like. You're changing the core concept of the character and it ruins the character. The Ultimate Universe is supposed to tell contemporary stories with classic super heroes, not completely re-invent certain characters. Sure, you can do some tweaking, like making Gwen a punk, or revamping lame villains into interesting ones, but there's some things you just don't change. MJ as Demogoblin is one of those things.
 
Eh, don't blow it out of proportion, MWoF. It was just a smart-assed response to a smart-assed post.

Maybe the reason I don't think the Mary Jane thing is so bad is because I'm getting bored of the Peter Parker aspect of USM. I really dug it for a while, but after 100 issues, a lot of the schoolyard crap just seems repetitive as hell. Part of it's that time passes so slow, but either way, I'm honestly bored of the Peter/MJ dynamic. I think psycho Peter turning her into a Goblin is mildly interesting because it plays on an aspect of their relationship in a hyper-dramatic way, and I know that if it turns out badly (and I'm pretty sure it will), it won't be a big loss to me, because I'm pretty much washed out on that whole relationship anyway.

I've basically resigned myself to looking at USM as a (sometimes) mildly interesting showcase book.
 
Lynx said:
I thought what Bendis said to Doc was not only rude, but extremely unprofessional. You don't say things like that, especially when you don't know who you're talking to.
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Exactly. It was Doc's first post.

And then - hilariously - Bendis tells people that he doesn't want the board to be a fraternity. :roll:
 
Zombipanda said:
Eh, don't blow it out of proportion, MWoF. It was just a smart-assed response to a smart-assed post.

Maybe the reason I don't think the Mary Jane thing is so bad is because I'm getting bored of the Peter Parker aspect of USM. I really dug it for a while, but after 100 issues, a lot of the schoolyard crap just seems repetitive as hell. Part of it's that time passes so slow, but either way, I'm honestly bored of the Peter/MJ dynamic. I think psycho Peter turning her into a Goblin is mildly interesting because it plays on an aspect of their relationship in a hyper-dramatic way, and I know that if it turns out badly (and I'm pretty sure it will), it won't be a big loss to me, because I'm pretty much washed out on that whole relationship anyway.

I've basically resigned myself to looking at USM as a (sometimes) mildly interesting showcase book.
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Now maybe I'm out of my mind here, but with 616 Spidey being unmasked and everything else 616 being tied to Civil War, I would like a Spider-Man book that kept the orginal concepts a little more. I mean it's not Martian Manhunter here, Spidey's worked since the 60s because of what his books are like.

Both Ultimate Universe and Marvel Universe seem hellbent on changing Spidey into something else and I'm wondering how flexible the fans are to these things.

Yes change is nice, change is needed, but a really cool thing Bendis should have thought of was, all those people that hate Spidey being out, sure would love Ultimate Spidey for keeping a status quo for a while.

This is in a business sense.

But now we have two universes were you can pick between, Spidey's id's common knowledge and MJ will soon be killed (mark my words), or Spidey has Carnage as a friend and Demogoblin as MJ who in all possiblites might be killed off in Death of a Goblin if that arc ever comes out. Oh and May's kicked Pete out of the house.

So...you know Peter's a 15-16 year old boy. I'm sorry if you're tired of the school, crush, back and forth thing. But that's what it's like as a 15-16 year old. And how can you be tired of MJ?

Is the book ruined? No, not too far from it, but no. Is turning MJ into Demogoblin a bad idea. HELL YES! If Reed or Nick can cure it, or if it's a dream or whatever won't change the fact that it happened on page just to be a dumb shock moment.

I'm rambling. And this MJ as Demogoblin isn't worth all this fuss. In fact, I've already dropped the book I'm just in USM thread to see how far the book goes before it starts threatening the continuing of the Ultimate imprint.

It's like watching a car crash. A car crash in third person while your body is in the car that's on fire.
 
Foolsfolly said:
I'm rambling. And this MJ as Demogoblin isn't worth all this fuss. In fact, I've already dropped the book I'm just in USM thread to see how far the book goes before it starts threatening the continuing of the Ultimate imprint.

It's like watching a car crash. A car crash in third person while your body is in the car that's on fire.
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I completely and totally agree.
 
*is late to the thread*

so the main question i have left after this issue is, why did they turn her into a MALE monster??? it makes no sense!!
 
E said:
Because it totally destroys what she is to this story as a whole. She plays a part, both to Peter and to Spider-Man if you get what I'm saying. Giving her powers ruins that.
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Not for me.

Like I said earlier, why not give Aunt May wings and have her fly to Japan to fight ninjas or something? You don't screw with certain characters.
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Now don't go giving them any ideas. Particularly ones you do not want to see.
 
So yeah, I went to my LCS yesterday jsut looking around and I asked the clerk what he thought of Ultimate spiderman so far. He said it was the best so far that he's ever seen. Then everyone else starts jumping in at how random mj's mishap was and that it was pure bendis gold. I thought it was pure bendis gay, I called it bengay. I laughed a little and then lost some respect. i seriously think everyone here could be a comic shop guy and be successful at it because everyone at the shops I go to are morons. This isn't just one isolated incident either.
 
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