Ultimate Spiderman #101 discussion (Spoilers)

...

I liked this issue.

No, I'm kidding! Really! Not even I could be so anti-everyone else's opinion on this.

Really, I would have expected answers and more developments by now. Issues 97-99 were good because of the "omgosh what is going to happen next???" factor. And what has happened next? We still have several questions and weird things are becoming way too odd. And a lot of these plots are seemingly unrelated still... Is this for some "big reveal!!!" in the last issue of the arc? Yuck. Way to draw things out.

In the meantime, I'll be here assuming that morphing into giant male freak-monsters is something that all the teen girls magazines are claiming is the hottest new Winter 06 fashion.

.5/5 :/

Oh, and Sins Past is probably my favorite modern-day Spider-Man story ever. Way better than the Other, Unmasking, or all the Origin-Not-Science-But-Maic crap.
 
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im seriously considering dropping all my bendis books... i'll probably still read the series im interested in, but i'm not ****ing paying for something if he's going to be such an *** to a fan.

Not someone with Bass-Level animosity towards him... A Fan.

I'm overreacting now, but i'm tired... I just wasnt expecting this.

Heh. I should accuse him of Gay Bashing.
 
Oh, and Sins Past is probably my favorite modern-day Spider-Man story ever. Way better than the Other, Unmasking, or all the Origin-Not-Science-But-Maic crap.

I don't even get why Sins Past was brought up. The way Gwen was changed is completely different from they way Ultimate MJgoblin was.

But yeah - loved it.

And The Other is one of the worst things ever created.
 
Originally Posted by Dr.Strangefate
Okay... This is essentially what I posted back on Ultimate Central about this issue.


3. This arc is setting the record for Deus ex Machinas used in a single story... Fantastic Four show up to stop fury and save aunt may, also giving Richard Parker an easy way out. SHIELD has rays that somehow can change symbiotic goo into a girl that the goo was pretending to be. Also using this ray on gwen means it's not being used on peter, so he can keep his powers.

*smashes head against wall*Bendis, you're one of the best writers out there... ALIAS is one of my favorite series of all time, and I still love Powers! PLEASE bring this book back to what we all know you are capable of.

BENDIS

i appreciatre that, so let me share with you a little writing lesson. the ff are introduced early in the story. spidey goes to them for help. they are involved in the story. that is the opposite of a Deus ex Machina.

the fact that you didn't expect them is called good plot construction.

In Lord of the Flies the kids spend most of the book trying to get off the island, trying to get a ship to the island, seeing a ship at point, and when the ship arrived at the end and everything went back to normal and the kids cried...it was STILL a Deus ex machina.

The Merchant of Venice, Antonio's entire life rests on whether or not his ships come to port. It is heard throughout the story that they have all crashed. Yet in the end Portia tells him all his ships have come home, with no explanation as to how they survived the storms or why people believed them all to have crashed. THAT'S STILL A DEUS EX MACHINA EVEN THOUGH THE CHARACTERS TALK ABOUT IT A LOT!

In Stephen King's Dark Tower, King himself is a character that's set up. Then King the character writes a note which is absorbed into the protagonist's world and appears in time to help rescue Susannah and Roland from a seemingly hopeless situation in the final book. The note says "Here comes the deus ex machina".

Just because a character is brought up in the story, or the item is talked about, or seen, doesn't mean that their sudden arrival is NOT a deus ex machina.

That is all.
 
I feel like i get several awesome-points for being talked down to by Brian Michael Bendis.

But seriously. When a plot device is used in which a character or characters interupt the major action at the most convenient moment, at which point the hero can no longer bail himself out without surrendering or dying (or in this case, losing his powers), and the hero is saved by these characters... That is a Deus ex machina. That is God coming down from the heavens and saving the day... Its what the Greeks used to do when they didn't know how to end plays... and it seems like every story for a WHILE now gets snatched out of peter's hands before he can resolve it... remember when he actually followed through and took down the Kingpin? Or when he had to handle things by himself without SHIELD or sheer coincidence getting in the way? Seriously,When is the last time Peter had to rely on himself and not luck in this comic?

ALSO: I'm at one of the top writing schools in the goddamn country, and he went to the Jewish Academy of Cleveland. I don't need a ****ing writing lesson from a guy who hasn't written a single great comic book in the last year or so...

See I was politely unhappy with the issue before, but now I'm pissed off at the writer. That's no good, now is it?

EDIT: He ALSO could have addressed any one of my other points... You know, the ones that actually have precedent on what happened during the issue...

Don't tell us that, tell him
 
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I almost want to drop USM and New Avengers just as a matter of principle now.
 
I almost want to drop USM and New Avengers just as a matter of principle now.

No, I am sure it will get better. Just because he was a douche to DSF (that was uncalled for, man) doesn't mean the book needs to be dropped, even though I bet some people have dropped it because of this issue.
 
I feel like i get several awesome-points for being talked down to by Brian Michael Bendis.
...
That's all I meant about you getting zapped..he seldom ever replies.
No offense meant..when he screws around with the fans, it does bug me. But part of me knows that he's just torturing us b/c we take it too seriously, and it's going to be ok.
 
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No, I am sure it will get better.

The quality doesn't have anything to do with it. Why would I want to give my money to someone who acts like such an *******?
 
The quality doesn't have anything to do with it. Why would I want to give my money to someone who acts like such an *******?
I don't know, but its not like he is an evil dictator. The kind of person he is doesn't matter as long as it doesn't get worse to where I can't stand him.
 
I don't know, but its not like he is an evil dictator. The kind of person he is doesn't matter as long as it doesn't get worse to where I can't stand him.

Normally I would totally agree, but what he said to Doc really rubbed me the wrong way.
 
Bendick said:
i appreciatre that, so let me share with you a little writing lesson. the ff are introduced early in the story. spidey goes to them for help. they are involved in the story. that is the opposite of a Deus ex Machina.

the fact that you didn't expect them is called good plot construction.
What a condescending prick. I don't have the attachment to Bendis a lot of you do. This is his only book that I read. And I was thinking about dropping it because the writing has gone to ****. He's not helping himself here.
I feel like i get several awesome-points for being talked down to by Brian Michael Bendis.
Agreed.
But seriously. When a plot device is used in which a character or characters interupt the major action at the most convenient moment, at which point the hero can no longer bail himself out without surrendering or dying (or in this case, losing his powers), and the hero is saved by these characters... That is a Deus ex machina. That is God coming down from the heavens and saving the day... Its what the Greeks used to do when they didn't know how to end plays... and it seems like every story for a WHILE now gets snatched out of peter's hands before he can resolve it... remember when he actually followed through and took down the Kingpin? Or when he had to handle things by himself without SHIELD or sheer coincidence getting in the way? Seriously,When is the last time Peter had to rely on himself and not luck in this comic?
Yeah he kind of missed that. And I've been sick of Spiderman getting saved by everyone under the sun. Seriously when was the last time Peter took care of business against a villain that wasn't a joke or a throwaway? He's ****ing Spiderman, when did he become a total *****?
ALSO: I'm at one of the top writing schools in the goddamn country, and he went to the Jewish Academy of Cleveland. I don't need a ****ing writing lesson from a guy who hasn't written a single great comic book in the last year or so...
:lol: You should tell him that.
Normally I would totally agree, but what he said to Doc really rubbed me the wrong way.
Same here.
 
Okay, so I just skimmed some of the thread, so if I missed something, sue me. But I'm going to have to be the odd man out here and disagree with you guys.

To start with, I never liked Bendis. He always came across as the poster-boy for stereotypical comic book writers. He's one of those arrogant, self-absorbed comic writers who takes on a disgusting passive-aggressive stance to any criticism, trying to evoke that "I don't give a ****" aura, when it's obvious he can do it. Warren Ellis can get away with saying he doesn't give a **** because he really DOESN'T GIVE A ****. And even with that said, he still seems to have respect for the fans. Grant Morrison can get away giving people writing history lessons because he's Grant Morrison. Grant's the James Joyce of comic books. Bendis is comics' Tom Clancy.

But that's not the point. I liked this issue.

Seriously guys. You heard it here first. I LIKED THIS ISSUE. I didn't love it, but I liked it alright. Let me start with the bad.... Bendis' portrayal of other people's characters generally sucks ***. Not only does his Nick Fury's personality seem to contradict the Fury we see in the other comics, he's a lame character even without that benchmark to stand up to. He doesn't come across as the badass leader of a high priority government agency who's willing to do anything to get the job done. He comes across as a spoiled, immature kid who's used to getting things his way. And his actions throughout the book have never seemed particularly realistic to me. The FF didn't feel particularly real to me either, although it was nice to see Spidey finally getting respect from other heroes, and Bagley did draw some cool FF shots. Also, the Spider-Slayers are super-lame.

Now, that being said, I liked the issue. I'm one of the people who's thought the Clone Saga up until this point has been pretty mediocre. It just seemed like there was shocking revelation after shocking revelation. All of them seemed tacked on. None came across as particularly interesting to me. Hell, issue 100 bored the hell out of me.

This issue, I thought the battle with the Fantastic Four was pretty excellent, even if they weren't portrayed precisely how I'd like them to be. Tinkerer came across as an interesting variation on his 616 self, even though the kind of character he portrayed is a pretty standard stock type in modern fiction. And I'm glad to see hints that Richard might NOT be Richard, without anyone coming out directly and saying it.

And Mary Jane? Honestly, I'm INTERESTED in seeing Mary Jane turn into a were-goblin, and I'm infinitely more curious about the upcoming "Goblin Queen" arc now than I am about this boring mess of a Clone Saga. There's a lot of talk about how "You can't do that to Mary Jane", but I don't see why not. This is supposed to be the Ultimate Universe. Things are supposed to diverge from 616. The same people here saying they don't want Ultimates to just become the Ultimate version of the Avengers are incredibly pissed that Bendis might be doing something different with Mary Jane.

But I'm not one of those people. There are a few things that need to remain the same in both the Ultimate and mainstream universe. Peter Parker has o get bit by a radioactive spider, lose his uncle, and learn from this that ith great power comes great responsibility. And he needs to be a regular guy trying to balance the responsibility of superheroics with the life of a regular dude. I really don't think Mary Jane is that sacred of a cow. Butcher her. As long as her actions stay consistent with the Ultimate Mary Jane that Bendis has spent 100 issues building, I'm down for it. Turn her into a villain, kill her off, or bring her back to Peter, but do it in a way that organically makes sense with her personality.

Either way, it wasn't a bad issue. It wasn't great, but I'd give it a 3/5, and I thought the final panel was the best part, so sue me.

Even so, I'm worried Bendis will totally ruin it.
 
"Love hurts, Love scars, Love wounds and mars
Any heart not tough or strong enough
To take a lot of pain, take a lot of pain
Love is like a cloud, it holds a lot of rain
Love hurts, Ooo-oo Love hurts
"


:lol:
 
Okay, so I just skimmed some of the thread, so if I missed something, sue me. But I'm going to have to be the odd man out here and disagree with you guys.

To start with, I never liked Bendis. He always came across as the poster-boy for stereotypical comic book writers. He's one of those arrogant, self-absorbed comic writers who takes on a disgusting passive-aggressive stance to any criticism, trying to evoke that "I don't give a ****" aura, when it's obvious he can do it. Warren Ellis can get away with saying he doesn't give a **** because he really DOESN'T GIVE A ****. And even with that said, he still seems to have respect for the fans. Grant Morrison can get away giving people writing history lessons because he's Grant Morrison. Grant's the James Joyce of comic books. Bendis is comics' Tom Clancy.

But that's not the point. I liked this issue.

Seriously guys. You heard it here first. I LIKED THIS ISSUE. I didn't love it, but I liked it alright. Let me start with the bad.... Bendis' portrayal of other people's characters generally sucks ***. Not only does his Nick Fury's personality seem to contradict the Fury we see in the other comics, he's a lame character even without that benchmark to stand up to. He doesn't come across as the badass leader of a high priority government agency who's willing to do anything to get the job done. He comes across as a spoiled, immature kid who's used to getting things his way. And his actions throughout the book have never seemed particularly realistic to me. The FF didn't feel particularly real to me either, although it was nice to see Spidey finally getting respect from other heroes, and Bagley did draw some cool FF shots. Also, the Spider-Slayers are super-lame.

Now, that being said, I liked the issue. I'm one of the people who's thought the Clone Saga up until this point has been pretty mediocre. It just seemed like there was shocking revelation after shocking revelation. All of them seemed tacked on. None came across as particularly interesting to me. Hell, issue 100 bored the hell out of me.

This issue, I thought the battle with the Fantastic Four was pretty excellent, even if they weren't portrayed precisely how I'd like them to be. Tinkerer came across as an interesting variation on his 616 self, even though the kind of character he portrayed is a pretty standard stock type in modern fiction. And I'm glad to see hints that Richard might NOT be Richard, without anyone coming out directly and saying it.

And Mary Jane? Honestly, I'm INTERESTED in seeing Mary Jane turn into a were-goblin, and I'm infinitely more curious about the upcoming "Goblin Queen" arc now than I am about this boring mess of a Clone Saga. There's a lot of talk about how "You can't do that to Mary Jane", but I don't see why not. This is supposed to be the Ultimate Universe. Things are supposed to diverge from 616. The same people here saying they don't want Ultimates to just become the Ultimate version of the Avengers are incredibly pissed that Bendis might be doing something different with Mary Jane.

But I'm not one of those people. There are a few things that need to remain the same in both the Ultimate and mainstream universe. Peter Parker has o get bit by a radioactive spider, lose his uncle, and learn from this that ith great power comes great responsibility. And he needs to be a regular guy trying to balance the responsibility of superheroics with the life of a regular dude. I really don't think Mary Jane is that sacred of a cow. Butcher her. As long as her actions stay consistent with the Ultimate Mary Jane that Bendis has spent 100 issues building, I'm down for it. Turn her into a villain, kill her off, or bring her back to Peter, but do it in a way that organically makes sense with her personality.

Either way, it wasn't a bad issue. It wasn't great, but I'd give it a 3/5, and I thought the final panel was the best part, so sue me.

Even so, I'm worried Bendis will totally ruin it.

One is the loneliest number...
 

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