Ultimate Spiderman #101 discussion (Spoilers)

[vintsukka]

Just to steer this into something else for a change...

"Doctor Reed Richards... Whoa... Geekasm!"

I forget, is Reed in any shape or form a doctor in the UU or did Bendis mess is up once again?

 

[omega234]

The improbable, unexpected part was that they showed up at JUST THE RIGHT moment at which Peter would not be able to escape losing his powers and May was likely to not reach medical help in time (likely to die).

It was not improbable that they were going to show up, naturally to stop Fury. Using that logic, it wouldn't even matter when they showed up it would have always been just the right moment. Peter still has not escaped that situation yet of losing his powers. Those energy weapons he was being hit with were shutting down his nervous system, paralyzing him, not depriving him of his spider abilities. Yes, the FF's arrival helped Peter no question, but I would hardly call it the right moment.

It also seems to have prevented the conflict between the CIA and SHIELD for the time being.

This might go completely misunderstood when I say it but I'm saying it anyway. They were not having an conflict.

I forget, is Reed in any shape or form a doctor in the UU or did Bendis mess is up once again?

No, he's a doctor.

 

[Lynx]

I forget, is Reed in any shape or form a doctor in the UU or did Bendis mess is up once again?

Not only is he a doctor, but so are Sue and Victor. All three of them hold multiple doctoral degrees, I believe.

 

[darkspider]

Ok, we've gone for 15 pages about this **** about d.e.m, and frankly, i don't CARE! So what if the FF came in. They were there earlier in 98, in the solicits, we were told there would be another "FF guest star!". so its not a big surprise. but besides, this, can we go back and list how mj can be saved???

those who care about the d.e.m. go start ur own thread. I'd rather worry about how the story is progressing, and any speculations on how it'll turn out, not some argument about a weak plot tool by Bendis.

 

[Ultimate Houde]

Ok, we've gone for 15 pages about this **** about d.e.m, and frankly, i don't CARE! So what if the FF came in. They were there earlier in 98, in the solicits, we were told there would be another "FF guest star!". so its not a big surprise. but besides, this, can we go back and list how mj can be saved???

those who care about the d.e.m. go start ur own thread. I'd rather worry about how the story is progressing, and any speculations on how it'll turn out, not some argument about a weak plot tool by Bendis.

It's funny when the young-ins yell at us

 

[darkspider]

It's funny when the young-ins yell at us

im not that young, unless you're going by my status as an "innocent bystander".
i'm just saying that this argument is going way outta proportion and everyone's just gonna get pissed at each other.

 

[Ultimate Houde]

im not that young, unless you're going by my status as an "innocent bystander".
i'm just saying that this argument is going way outta proportion and everyone's just gonna get pissed at each other.

You think?

Me too

Which is why you simply get out of the thread and not view it again. Real simple.

I'm here to see more of the he-sadi she-said business going down. Popcorn?

 

[Victor Von Doom]

I'd rather worry about how the story is progressing, and any speculations on how it'll turn out, not some argument about a weak plot tool by Bendis.

But that's what this thread IS all about. The discussion of this issue. Regardless of whether the F4 are a DEM.....we are discussing the issue or aspects about the issue.

With that said....MJ can be saved.......but it'll be weak and Bendis will have screwed himself again.

 

[Goodwill]

Seeing as how Bendis has built this series and all of the turns since issue 1, I would say Bendis knows what'll become of the more bizarre developments in this arc... And, if not, he'll come up with something that'll at least appease the nay-sayers. I don't want to sound like I am trying to back Bendis' awful decisions or his convaluted retort at Strangefate's honest assessment, but there's gotta be more to what's going on than we know...The title is inevitably going to change from here on out... It'll be vastly different than what we know in the 616. A new landscape is what everyone was hoping for, right? The only thing wrong is that the Ultimate Universe has strayed from its purpose - to be more grounded and believable... Instead, we're building continuity and making uncomfortable changes... Hmm... And there is... Three or four more issues, correct?

 

[Mujaki]

I think I might know how Sasquatch-Goblin will disappear--remember way back when Norman Osborn first got his powers? He talked about how the spider's venom treated with Oz affected Peter's DNA, and Norman injected himself with his own DNA, treated with Oz. I think Kaine might have done the same thing with MJ's DNA instead of getting hold of a spider, or he might have just mainlined a bunch of Oz in her.

If you recall, Norman morphed into a lesser version of the Green Goblin at first. Only his head was green and he seemed weaker. After he changed back into a human, he had to shoot himself up with more OZ in order to morph again. (This was in Legacy.) I think there was a line in the Sinister Six where they mentioned that Osborn had been permanently affected by the Oz and could change at any time, which implies that he wasn't able to do that before. Can anyone confirm this for me?

In other words, MJ's transformation is only a one-time deal. Once she rampages around for a bit or burns off the Oz or whatever, she'll change back into a human and have to keep getting regular injections in order for the change to be permanent. I think in 102, she'll slap Kaine around for a bit and then change back and pass out and be back to normal, and Kaine won't get a chance to try again. At least, that's what I'm hoping. I've really been enjoying the Clone Saga so far, mainly because Spider-Woman and Tarantula are just as funny and endearing as Peter, only I'm not sick of listening to them whine for a hundred plus issues.

Of course, mainlining the OZ would bring a whole host of problems with it. Even Norman's was modified for his transformations, so just shooting her up with the pure stuff could screw her up. It hasn't been seen in the book what the effects are for the pure stuff. It also seemed to me, (but perhaps it was just the perspective,) that MJ became a far larger goblin than Harry did - Harry was only tainted by the Oz, leaving him around 7 feet tall - while she's on par with Norman - again, it could be at the artist's whim... Bagley's Green Goblin looked about 10 feet tall and more when he OD'ed, but in Ultimate Six he looked positively huge. I think the problem might be the opposite of what you stated... not that she'll burn it off it's a one-shot deal, but that she'll be stuck and unable to return to normal.

-M.J.R. (Mujaki)

 

[E]

I AM NOT SAYING THAT THIS IS AN INAPPROPRIATE USE OF THE DEUS EX MACHINA PLOT DEVICE!

Exactly. I had no complaints about it either. The complaint is that Bendis (and a few posters here, apparently) doesn't know what it is yet felt it necessary to talk down to Doc about it, and although it was OK when it happened, considering to the other weak plot point in the issue it's worth mentioning.

I'd rather worry about how the story is progressing, and any speculations on how it'll turn out, not some argument about a weak plot tool by Bendis.

That weak plot tool *is causing* us to worry about how the story is progressing.

 

[McCheese]

im not that young, unless you're going by my status as an "innocent bystander".
i'm just saying that this argument is going way outta proportion and everyone's just gonna get pissed at each other.

What's wrong with people getting pissed at each other. The UIM thread was a lot of fun before the n00bs gave up.

You think?

Me too

Which is why you simply get out of the thread and not view it again. Real simple.

I'm here to see more of the he-sadi she-said business going down. Popcorn?

It is fun. I'll take some popcorn.

But that's what this thread IS all about. The discussion of this issue. Regardless of whether the F4 are a DEM.....we are discussing the issue or aspects about the issue.

Correct.

With that said....MJ can be saved.......but it'll be weak and Bendis will have screwed himself again.

It'll suck. There's no doubt about it. It'll be cheap, stupid and probably make little to no sense, but she will be normal again. Probably soon.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

This might go completely misunderstood when I say it but I'm saying it anyway. They were not having an conflict.

Um... CIA seems to hate Fury, as seen in Issue #100. They don't like what he's trying to do, so they're building up a way to fight it... Mirroring how the CIA and FBI are always conflicting with eachother. Internal Organizations never work well side by side.

 

[Rawb]

Ahem,

I'm on and off this site a lot, so feel free to count me as a noob if you like. With that said, I'd like to comment on this issue along with the clone saga in general.

I started reading spider-man during the original clone saga, so I don't have the seething hatred for it that a lot of people have. However, that doesn't have much to do with the ultimate saga, but I just wanted to state that I wasn't biased against the clone saga being ultimized as it I enjoyed it anyways. More likely I am biased for it.

Okay, another thing you guys may disagree/dislike me for is that in all honesty I don't care much for MJ. She IS a good character, they have good moments and it's not that she's done anything to particularly make me angry but I don't think they need to be together for USM to be good, I don't even think they're "destined" to be. I am sure many people thought Pete and Gwen were meant to be on issue 101 of amazing as well, and we seen how that panned out. I'm not saying they're not good for each other, just that I am opened to alternatives, ie, Kitty and so forth. That being said, I wasn't as angry when she was transformed, as a matter of fact I could care less. I have a feeling she won't last that way anyways. I'm pretty sure MJ has been changed once or twice in 616 and of course it won't remain. It can't remain. If it DID remain it would be utterly stupid. I feel her transforming in the clone saga wasn't necessary because there was enough going on anyways. We didn't need that.

At any rate, the other stuff in the issue wasn't that bad. I have been slowly disliking fury for a while now, in and out of USM. The FF showing up and backing peter up - and johnny even referring to him as a friend - I felt was a good touch. No idea what the heck was up with Richard... he seemed kind of moronic for a doctor, although it could have been shock.

I actually enjoyed the fight scene because I WANTED Peter to knock Furys lights out. I would have enjoyed that. I have been enjoying the clone saga, it has been better then the last few arcs, in my opinion. The last great arc to me was hollywood but this one wasn't that bad. The black costume, six armed spidey seemed like a throw away, and that was something else that could have been left out. I would have preferred to see Spidey fight ultimate kaine instead of that wasted fight scene.

So in the end, I enjoyed this issue enough to give it a 3/5. I am sorry if this angers some of you (And despite the fact I don't post a lot, i do lurk here often and respect your opinions) but it wasn't THAT bad. It wasn't UIM bad.

 

[omega234]

Um... CIA seems to hate Fury, as seen in Issue #100. They don't like what he's trying to do, so they're building up a way to fight it... Mirroring how the CIA and FBI are always conflicting with eachother. Internal Organizations never work well side by side.

Like I said, this might go completely misunderstood when I say it. I'm well aware the what Richard said about the CIA not at all liking Fury. What I meant was that Issue #101 however you want to judge it did not prevent the conflict between the CIA and SHIELD at all let alone for the time being simply because the CIA and Fury were not fighting each other directly in that issue.

 

[Ice]

Ahem,

I'm on and off this site a lot, so feel free to count me as a noob if you like. With that said, I'd like to comment on this issue along with the clone saga in general.

I started reading spider-man during the original clone saga, so I don't have the seething hatred for it that a lot of people have. However, that doesn't have much to do with the ultimate saga, but I just wanted to state that I wasn't biased against the clone saga being ultimized as it I enjoyed it anyways. More likely I am biased for it.

Okay, another thing you guys may disagree/dislike me for is that in all honesty I don't care much for MJ. She IS a good character, they have good moments and it's not that she's done anything to particularly make me angry but I don't think they need to be together for USM to be good, I don't even think they're "destined" to be. I am sure many people thought Pete and Gwen were meant to be on issue 101 of amazing as well, and we seen how that panned out. I'm not saying they're not good for each other, just that I am opened to alternatives, ie, Kitty and so forth. That being said, I wasn't as angry when she was transformed, as a matter of fact I could care less. I have a feeling she won't last that way anyways. I'm pretty sure MJ has been changed once or twice in 616 and of course it won't remain. It can't remain. If it DID remain it would be utterly stupid. I feel her transforming in the clone saga wasn't necessary because there was enough going on anyways. We didn't need that.

At any rate, the other stuff in the issue wasn't that bad. I have been slowly disliking fury for a while now, in and out of USM. The FF showing up and backing peter up - and johnny even referring to him as a friend - I felt was a good touch. No idea what the heck was up with Richard... he seemed kind of moronic for a doctor, although it could have been shock.

I actually enjoyed the fight scene because I WANTED Peter to knock Furys lights out. I would have enjoyed that. I have been enjoying the clone saga, it has been better then the last few arcs, in my opinion. The last great arc to me was hollywood but this one wasn't that bad. The black costume, six armed spidey seemed like a throw away, and that was something else that could have been left out. I would have preferred to see Spidey fight ultimate kaine instead of that wasted fight scene.

So in the end, I enjoyed this issue enough to give it a 3/5. I am sorry if this angers some of you (And despite the fact I don't post a lot, i do lurk here often and respect your opinions) but it wasn't THAT bad. It wasn't UIM bad.

You come and go as you want and you don't even take a brownie! :cry:


Good to see you back.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

Like I said, this might go completely misunderstood when I say it. I'm well aware the what Richard said about the CIA not at all liking Fury. What I meant was that Issue #101 however you want to judge it did not prevent the conflict between the CIA and SHIELD at all let alone for the time being simply because the CIA and Fury were not fighting each other directly in that issue.

I was just saying that Sue gave Richard Parker an easy way out of the house... I wasn't insinuating a massive CIA vs. SHIELD clash, more of a Fury sees R. Parker and realizes that the CIA might behind the clones.

I admit it to be a weak point, i was just stretching to show all the things that might have been addressed if The Fantastic Four hadn't conveniently shown up... It wasn't meant to be my major point (just like the Deus Ex Machina bit wasn't my major point with my original post... my major point was about how all the OZ formulized people become goblins, except for some reason, Doc Ock and Peter helself).

 

[Rawb]

You come and go as you want and you don't even take a brownie! :cry:


Good to see you back.

W-well I meant to call and stuff... If you still have any brownies I am more then willing to partake in some.

Thanks for the greeting.

 

[E]

Ahem,

I'm on and off this site a lot, so feel free to count me as a noob if you like. With that said, I'd like to comment on this issue along with the clone saga in general.

I started reading spider-man during the original clone saga, so I don't have the seething hatred for it that a lot of people have. However, that doesn't have much to do with the ultimate saga, but I just wanted to state that I wasn't biased against the clone saga being ultimized as it I enjoyed it anyways. More likely I am biased for it.

Okay, another thing you guys may disagree/dislike me for is that in all honesty I don't care much for MJ. She IS a good character, they have good moments and it's not that she's done anything to particularly make me angry but I don't think they need to be together for USM to be good, I don't even think they're "destined" to be. I am sure many people thought Pete and Gwen were meant to be on issue 101 of amazing as well, and we seen how that panned out. I'm not saying they're not good for each other, just that I am opened to alternatives, ie, Kitty and so forth. That being said, I wasn't as angry when she was transformed, as a matter of fact I could care less. I have a feeling she won't last that way anyways. I'm pretty sure MJ has been changed once or twice in 616 and of course it won't remain. It can't remain. If it DID remain it would be utterly stupid. I feel her transforming in the clone saga wasn't necessary because there was enough going on anyways. We didn't need that.

At any rate, the other stuff in the issue wasn't that bad. I have been slowly disliking fury for a while now, in and out of USM. The FF showing up and backing peter up - and johnny even referring to him as a friend - I felt was a good touch. No idea what the heck was up with Richard... he seemed kind of moronic for a doctor, although it could have been shock.

I actually enjoyed the fight scene because I WANTED Peter to knock Furys lights out. I would have enjoyed that. I have been enjoying the clone saga, it has been better then the last few arcs, in my opinion. The last great arc to me was hollywood but this one wasn't that bad. The black costume, six armed spidey seemed like a throw away, and that was something else that could have been left out. I would have preferred to see Spidey fight ultimate kaine instead of that wasted fight scene.

So in the end, I enjoyed this issue enough to give it a 3/5. I am sorry if this angers some of you (And despite the fact I don't post a lot, i do lurk here often and respect your opinions) but it wasn't THAT bad. It wasn't UIM bad.

It bothers me when people feel the need to apologize for their opinions. If you feel it is necessary, then *I'M* sorry.

And for what it's worth I agree about the original clone saga. I was not reading comics when it happened (I actually quit just before it started because comics were so bad, e.g. they sucked). I LIKED the original Clone Saga overall. It was the first time I had seen Spider-Man be interesting in years.

While this Clone Saga is interesting, it has become "train wreck" interesting. If it gets so bad that they are turning MJ into Demogoblin, where will they stop? I will continue to read it, not because I like the story, but because I'm shocked how it has gone from the great book that it was into this slow downward spiral and finally this.

I say finally like I'm expecting DemoMJgoblin to be the lowest point.

 

[Rawb]

I definately agree with you there on the mj transforming thing. It's just unnecessary. He was doing FINE. He didn't need to do that. He didn't need to turn her into a goblin to get me to buy next issue. Seeing peter fight "Kaine" would have been more then enough, and a lot more rewarding. Sometimes one large fight is a lot better then 5 little events going on all at once.

Also, I only felt the need to apologize because if you look on the first 3 pages, there was a lot of mention of anger/resentment to anyone who had anything favorable to say. Something along the lines of "I'm going to be really pissed when some fanboy gets on here and talks it up". That's why I felt the need to say what I did. At any rate, I skipped a lot of it because 20 pages of reading is well, a lot.