Ultimate Spiderman #101 discussion (Spoilers)

Once more, with feeling.

I've had time to sit with this a marinate for a while. I've just barely caught up with everything that's been going on since I last posted, so instead of color commentary about Bendis' Board, I think I'll post what I got out of this issue.

I'm sitting here with the issue in front of me, and I know I shouldn't like it. !!!OMGTWIST!!! for the sake of it, not knowing what is going on with Gwen, (my favorite character,) and Mary's transformation most of all. And in the middle of it, Peter as helpless as could be.

But there are moments. The little fanboy in me squealed when I saw not!Carnage go apesh** on the Spider-Slayers. The look on Peter's face as he damn near tears Nick Fury's face off. not!Carnage flinging Ben to Jersey. And of course, naked!Gwen.

I shouldn't have liked this issue.

I am of two minds regarding this. I was disappointed, (an understatement. I was really angry,) that Mary transformed into the Demogoblin. Someone earlier in the conversation mentioned her 'sacred cow' status, and as much as I don't like the girl it does hold true. But on the other side of it, I'm secretly excited. Excited because Bendis is on the edge of taking the story into a vastly different direction than it's 616 counterpart. Perhaps I should explain...

... way back when, during the second Goblin arc, Peter had his first real interactions with Gwen. Mary was understandably jealous, but it was something new. Mary came first in this universe, and when the Green Goblin chucked her off the bridge I did a double-take. He wouldn't... would he? I could barely contain the glee I felt - this is what the Ultimate Universe should be about! Throw away convention. Slaughter that cow! Giving us an almost reverse world where Mary dies and Gwen survives? It was moments like that that really made the Ultimate books worth reading in those days.

Of course, Mary survived. And Gwen was given an almost nothing death, just as the dynamic between the three of them, (Mary, Peter, and Gwen,) had changed. But now, with Gwen as hulk-lite and Mary as Demogoblin, I can see something similar happening. That old feeling that anything could happen. Once again, roles could reverse, and I couldn't be happier.

SO Bendis has had the last laugh. He's played me like a fiddle because no matter how much I hate the book at first, I'll eventually come around and wait eagerly for the issue like it's crack. Despite his lulls, he is a talented enough writer, and he could still manage to pull a good tale out of this. And like the kid who never learns his lesson, I'll be there every step of the way.

-M.J.R. (Mujaki)
 
Mujaki said:
SO Bendis has had the last laugh. He's played me like a fiddle because no matter how much I hate the book at first, I'll eventually come around and wait eagerly for the issue like it's crack. Despite his lulls, he is a talented enough writer, and he could still manage to pull a good tale out of this. And like the kid who never learns his lesson, I'll be there every step of the way.
Click to expand...

I almost agree with you. I, too, will return for more. Even after the Clone Saga, I will return. Only because I know Bendis can write good Spider-Man stories. The first thirty or so issues (As well as an odd arc here and there; usually dealing with the Kingpin) were spectacular. Unfortunately, I've seen Bendis' great openings and terrible endings numerous times in the past. It happened with Venom, I've seen it happen with Carnage,, and, perhaps most tragically, it happened to Hobgoblin. The same has happened here, albeit its happened three issues early. Still, who knows, maybe I'll be surprised. But, I won't hold my breath.
 
Yeah, I loved it. Just pure fun. The ending is a good "Oh, cool!" moment.

BUT: It could go horribly wrong. Yes, having both the girls in Pete's life turn into big red monsters when angry would be a lame status quo. So I assume either Mary will be cured, Gwen will go away again or both by the end.

Or the last few pages could be a horrific vision by Kaine. He did have those in 616. Funny premonitions of possible bad futures that don't always happen. It would be a bit of a cop-out, but I think I'd laugh and get over it.

And I'm still absolutely dying to see all this explained, and will be on tenterhooks till next issue. So I suppose Bendis wins.
 
E said:
We're not fighting, just explaining.

Aebriol - if English isn't your native language then maybe it's just that you aren't picking up on the (perceived) attitude in the posts. Doc's post was totally complimentary. Bendis responded by talking down to him, like he knows all about good plot construction and Doc doesn't, so he's doing him a great favor by explaining it.

I can see how someone not quite as familiar with the language might not see that - I wouldn't if it was in Spanish or French.
Click to expand...

That is probably correct, because I don't really see it as such a negative thing. But then again, I've never been enough of a fan to go to the creators boards and discuss things, so I have never seen how most writers and artists responds to questions.

Well I guess it answered my original question: I am the only one who thought it was weird :)
 
I agree with you. If somebody is going to make a baseless criticism they're going to get a rebuttal, and not necessarily a patient one. The FF "save" was not a deus ex machina. Bendis replies quite casually, and uses the term writing lesson since he is technically a genuine writer, while arm-chair critics act like learned lovers of the art form when they don't know the meanings of the most basic terms.

He ignored the rest of the posts and criticisms, because obviously he can't respond to questions regarding continuing plot points.

It is intensely hypocritical about how people can make obtuse criticisms and expect not to be called on it by the writer himself, lamenting that he probably won't respond, and when he does, call it unprofessional.

But this issue was indeed below par taken on its own. Using MJ's tranformation as a cliff hanger after we'd been told in cliff hangers for the last few issues it was going to happen is a tad disapointing. The rest was acceptable.
 
Last edited:
I agree with Aebriol.

*smashes head against wall*

"Bendis, you're one of the best writers out there... ALIAS is one of my favorite series of all time, and I still love Powers! PLEASE bring this book back to what we all know you are capable of."

This sounds condescending rather than complimentary.

Anyway, I thought this issue was decent on it's own. On the series as a whole I thought it was good. If I were Peter, I start playing catch up. There is far too much going on and he is behind on just about all of it.
 
/\/008$


You give Bendis too much credit when it comes to being "casual."

I recently skimmed the issue and read enough tpb to know what is going on in the series and wow. There is no reason for 60% of all that happened in that last issue.
 
Last edited:
It was a Deus Ex Machina, it doenst meananything he talked to the FF before. In the last issues Spider Man basically just visits every super hero in the UU.
I thought this was a complement, he said Bendis HAS writting skills but it's not using. I don't think that.
Bendis answer was unnecessary, AND rude.



Are we having a Bendis Board flood?
 
Last edited:
Ultimate Quicksilver said:
it doenst meananything he talked to the FF before.
Click to expand...

It means plenty not because he talked to the Fantastic Four but specifically what they talked about. Not to mention what the Reed and Sue were talking about before they called Fury. All this within the same arc. Their appearance wasn't unlikely, fake or unexpected no more than Fury was bringing those Spider slayers.
 
omega234 said:
"Bendis, you're one of the best writers out there... ALIAS is one of my favorite series of all time, and I still love Powers! PLEASE bring this book back to what we all know you are capable of."[/I]

This sounds condescending rather than complimentary.
Click to expand...
There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING there that is condescending. NOTHING. N-O-T-H-I-N-G. He's giving him a compliment by saying he's a great writer and that his skills are great as well. And telling him he knows he can do better is constructive critisism. "You're good, but we know you can do better." There's nothing bad about that.


Now, if we're done beating a dead horse here, let's see if we can get back to actually discussing the issue itself. Last I checked, that's what the thread was about.
 
randomthoughts said:
I agree with you. If somebody is going to make a baseless criticism they're going to get a rebuttal, and not necessarily a patient one. The FF "save" was not a deus ex machina. Bendis replies quite casually, and uses the term writing lesson since he is technically a genuine writer, while arm-chair critics act like learned lovers of the art form when they don't know the meanings of the most basic terms.
Click to expand...

1) It was absolutely a deux ex machina. They came out and saved him form an inescapable situation. Like I, Ult. Quicksilver, and others have said, whether or not Peter interacted with them hours or days before that makes no difference. They were not part of that scene/fight.

2) So he's a "genuine writer" - so what? Doc's opinion is wrong because he doesn't (according to Bendis) know that definition of good plot construction? Whether he does or doesn't, what does it have to do with the boiled down fact that the story blows?
 
For the sake of this discussion, I will not reply to your post Ice. But getting into something that I was discussing that was not beating a dead horse.

E said:
1) It was absolutely a deux ex machina. They came out and saved him form an inescapable situation. Like I, Ult. Quicksilver, and others have said, whether or not Peter interacted with them hours or days before that makes no difference. They were not part of that scene/fight.
Click to expand...

They do not need to be part of the scene. They're part of the overall story itself. Peter sought their help and they called Fury while not notifying Peter of their decision. A decision if I remember correctly, they were not completely comfortable with. Not to mention Reed said that he had virtual sensors on Fury to see if he was lying or not. Did it really seem unlikely that they might interfere?
 
omega234 said:
For the sake of this discussion, I will not reply to your post Ice. But getting into something that I was discussing that was not beating a dead horse.



They do not need to be part of the scene. They're part of the overall story itself. Peter sought their help and they called Fury while not notifying Peter of their decision. A decision if I remember correctly, they were not completely comfortable with. Not to mention Reed said that he had virtual sensors on Fury to see if he was lying or not. Did it really seem unlikely that they might interfere?
Click to expand...

I'm with this guy. Not only were they the lucky recipients of the Scorpion-clone in issue #98, they had a whole follow-up subplot in #99, called Fury in, a decision they were uneasy with, and were standing RIGHT NEXT to him when he barked into his radio about taking "Spider Slayers" to Pete's house and it "getting messy". It was always obvious that they'd be somehow involved in the remainder of the storyline. This way makes sense, especially since Bendis had been careful to flag up Peter's sort-of friendship with Johnny in #98 to give him more motivation to (perhaps) encourage Reed to intervene.

In short, it wasn't necessarily obvious, but it was justified and it certainly wasn't Deus Ex Machina, which requires the resolution come completely out of nowhere.
 
But it did come out of nowhere. The same could be said about ultimates2 11 and 12. When the Union Jack super soldiers show up like Superman, that coulda been considered deus ex no? But(emphasis), since it showed them with an idea in number 11, that can be ruled out. I don't think the superstars arc(?) could apply to this.
 
Not really. If Millar can get away with setting up an issue #12 intervention in #11, I think we can let Bendis off for setting up an issue #101 intervention in #99. That extra one month doesn't make that much difference does it?

Just because he didn't specifically show the FF thinking "I KNOW! LET'S GO AND HELP PETER!", that doesn't mean he did a bad job of setting it up, to me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top