Ultimate Marvel Timeline / Chronology (v. 3.0)
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Neriek
Member
Hello everyone, first post here.
First, I just want to say that DIrishB has done a great job on this, and it has really helped me with the reading order, and getting my mind around how events take place in the Ultimate Universe.
I just wanted to ask about the situation with Ultimate Power in the timeline. Nick Fury states that it happens in the same year as the Gah Lak Tus event, and names several others. But, when the Ultimates appear in Issue 1, they have Ant Man with them. I thought that Hank Pym had not told anyone about the Ant Man powers, and had left the Ultimates.
I also think that the Supermeverse and Ultimaverse should be kept seperate in timelines, because the crossover seems to mess up the fact that they are happening perellel to each other. SS is something like 2 years ahead of UU.
First, I just want to say that DIrishB has done a great job on this, and it has really helped me with the reading order, and getting my mind around how events take place in the Ultimate Universe.
I just wanted to ask about the situation with Ultimate Power in the timeline. Nick Fury states that it happens in the same year as the Gah Lak Tus event, and names several others. But, when the Ultimates appear in Issue 1, they have Ant Man with them. I thought that Hank Pym had not told anyone about the Ant Man powers, and had left the Ultimates.
I also think that the Supermeverse and Ultimaverse should be kept seperate in timelines, because the crossover seems to mess up the fact that they are happening perellel to each other. SS is something like 2 years ahead of UU.
Marvel_Boy
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To be honest, the last issue of The Ultimates isn't out yet, and it looks like Hank is going to try and ingratiate himself with the team again by commanding his Ultrons to attack the Liberators.
DIrishB
The Timeline Guy
Thats right, I forgot. Ok, so Thursday. Glad I didn't drive all the way to my local shop tomorrow for nothing.
Huh...well now I'm torn. Oh well, no big deal. I'm heading to my girlfriend's tonight anyway (she lives about 40 minutes south of me), so I'll be able to visit the shop close to her. It rules, so it won't be a wasted trip either way.
All true. We know the Galactus incident occurred in 2004 due to the dating in Ultimate Nightmare. And according to Fury in UP #1, it all happened "this year". The Supreme Power universe is firmly placed in 2006, due to the final issue of the Hyperion mini-series. So at this point, we have to assume that either Fury was being very liberal in his comment, or there is some type of time travel involved with the Supreme-verse characters dimension hopping to the Ultimate universe.
I can't say I totally disagree on that, either. However, due to Marvel's decision to crossover the two separate universes, I feel it should be included as part of the timeline. This is for the same reason the Marvel Zombies titles are included. They're both alternate realities, which occur in the same Multi-verse or Omni-verse the Ultimate universe occupies. And since I want the timeline to be as comprehensive as possible, and those alternate reality stories can play a part in Ultimate stories (as in the UFF issues in the N-Zone and Zombie-verse, and any other Ultimate tales involving alternate realities) and can have lasting effects on the Ultimate universe itself (as is supposedly going to happen in Ultimate Power). Hence, their inclusion. This is the purpose of italicizing them, to show they don't occur within the Ultimate universe itself, but one of its parallel realities.
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Don't you mean Wednesday?? Comics have always shipped on the Wednesday after MLK Jr. Day.
ultimatedjf
Well-Known Member
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Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Good. The more the better.Dude.... I just posted that on the previous page. :?
Neriek
Member
Well, I think that you know more about it than I do, and you have done a great job on it.
I have just finished reading all of the issues in the God War arc in UFF, and I was wondering if it is in a seperate universe. Because on page 7 of issue 36, Thanos descrubed the FF as "Aliens from another plane."
I have just finished reading all of the issues in the God War arc in UFF, and I was wondering if it is in a seperate universe. Because on page 7 of issue 36, Thanos descrubed the FF as "Aliens from another plane."
Marvel_Boy
Active Member
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I think the Mad Thinker arc from UFF should be moved up a little, since it's supposed to happen right when they come back from Denmark in "Doom".
Neriek
Member
I thought that it happened after they came back from LV at the end of the N-Zone arc. I am sure that it comes right after it, and they are in the 'copter from when they left it.
Joe Kalicki
Well-Known Member
See, this is the thing I don't like about the timeline. The UU doesn't take place in 2004, it takes place now. When they put 2004 in the comic they don't mean "2004" forever, they mean "today." In Ultimate Spider-Man 12 the date listed on the Kingpin's security disks is 2001. Three years hasn't passed between USM 12 and Ultimate Nightmare. And if they referred to the year as 2007 in the next issue of UFF or something it wouldn't mean three years has passed again.
I think it's very dangerous to take the years and refrences in comics literally. Back in the day they always said things like "I guess I'm the biggest bonehead of 1963!" and stuff like that. That doesn't mean the Fantastic Four have been around for 44 years.
Neriek
Member
Well, I remember the USM thing, and it showed you peter holding a disk which had a date in 2001, and never said that it was the actual disk.
Also, I donot remember any new issues referencing 2007. Could you please be a boit more specific, I want to see where it said this.
Oh, and, you can't really expect the comics to be in real time. They are released once a month, and that is if they are on time. There is no way that the writers could have a months story in 22 pages, and still keep it interesting.
But, I see where you mean. They could at least make it clear where it is set, and, if it is always so much slower than us, then how far behind will it be in 10 years? I am guessing that they may do something to make the time catch up some how.
Joe Kalicki
Well-Known Member
The point is, it isn't behind us! It's on a sliding time scale. USM 1m released in 2000, takes place in 2007 (or 2006 if you like, but no earlier). Every year that passes in real time is the same year that the UU is set in. EVery event moves forward one year.
So if a character said something happened two years ago in a 2004 issue of USM, it happened in 2002 then. But now it happened in 2005, since that issue of USM takes place "now," whenever that may be at the time.
So if a character said something happened two years ago in a 2004 issue of USM, it happened in 2002 then. But now it happened in 2005, since that issue of USM takes place "now," whenever that may be at the time.
DIrishB
The Timeline Guy
Thats how it appears at the moment. I was going to wait until the arc completed before officially designating it as so (instead of it being a case of teleportation to another part of the Ultimate universe itself--a different galaxy or whatnot).
Marvel_Boy said:
Are you forgetting about the N-Zone arc?
Neriak said:
Right. That is how its listed. I'm not sure what Marvel_Boy's talking about.
I agree. However, this can be explained away as the dates on the security cameras being incorrect. Not likely, but more believable than the date expressly given for the story to be taking place in.
But, when a character specifically references how long its been since they got their powers, should we ignore that as well (ie, the reporters asking Reed and company about when they got their powers, or specifically dated flashbacks as in Hobgoblin)? That plays a large part in the organization of the timeline as well.
Quite true. But I think they'll try to avoid that at this point. I don't expect to see many (if any) more specific date placements in the Ultimate books, probably as a direct result of both from what you were talking about, as well as the already present continuity mistakes themselves...the less specific dates used, the easier these are to avoid.
As I've said before (a hundred times or so at least), once it gets to a point of it no longer being manageable in that fashion, I'll remove the specified year marks (2003, 2004, etc) and replace it with a zero-mark fashion (10 Years Before, Year 0 being the creation of the Ultimates and the other teams, +1 Years for Ultimates 2, etc).
As far as I'm concerned, we haven't reached that point yet. From all intents and purposes, the biggest snafu to the Ultimate continuity is Ultimate Power right now...no big surprise, thanks to Bendis. But, as I said, this can be explained by some type of time-travel in addition to the dimension hopping on the Supreme characters' part. And as such, I'll alter the timeline to show that.
But for the time being, give it a break on this same old song and dance.
I think he means because the next UFF arc involves time travel, and one of the solicits referred to them travelling to the past (1432 specifically, or something like that). He means its possible they could list the year of the UFF's current timeline as 2007 to reflect our own.
Exactly. Most of the story arcs occur over a day, or a few days at most. However, in between arcs (or even issues, or during issues), there are often multi-month jumps in time within the title's timeline. This often helps the title play catch-up, somewhat.
Lets face it, a HUGE reason for the Ultimate universe's timeline not keeping pace with the real world is due to the delays of The Ultimates monthly title. The first volume started in 2001 and listed its in-title real-time as beginning in 2002, spanning at least several months and ending in 2003--which coincided with the series conclusion in our timeline. Ultimates 2 started in 2004, and reflected that in real-time by reflecting that it occurred a year after the conclusion of Ultimates 1 (which works in both cases, as in my timeline Ultimates 1 ends in 2003 and U2 starts in 2004). However, the constant delays on U2 have pushed its run well into 2007 (March), though the timeline of the story itself is only in 2004, maybe into 2005 at latest.
The fact that Bendis doesn't want to have Peter age more than a year per 100 issues doesn't help with the other titles, either.
However, I think the titles are becoming less dependant on the other title's respective continuities (the main titles' storylines are much more self contained than the early Ultimate issues, though still cross over and reflect plotlines from each other occasionally). This will hopefully serve to have less continuity screw-ups and questions in the Ultimate books in the future. I hope.
Joe Kalicki said:
That isn't completely true, for the reason I listed above. It doesn't account for the actual progression of time within the title itself. According to dialogue itself in the title, a certain amount of time has passed since the inceptions of those particular heroes or teams. Therefore, it isn't always a case of a sliding scale mirroring our own timeline.
By the way, updated for USM #104 and UXM #78.
TwilightEL
Well-Known Member
So in USM 104, Peter said he loves MJ. Why is he still going out with Kitty in UP? Does he switch girls again? Is he leading her on? Does Bendis not give a **** about continuity or is he just finally admitting that UP isn't canon?
Neriek
Member
I was wondering about that as well. This must mean that it takes place before the end of the Clone saga arc. But, in the Cable arc (I think it is the latest issue) Xavier mentions something about Kitty's and Peter's relationship, but that, according to the timeline, takes placve AFTER the clone sage. Well, we will have to see what happens in USM #105.
But, I think that it is a safe bet that Bendis does not care about continuity.
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DIrishB
The Timeline Guy
TwilightEL said:
I was still rearranging and updating when you posted that, so check now and see if that either answers or negates some of those questions. As for Bendis "not giving a **** about continuity", that question was answered long ago.
The answer for the differing years between the Supreme-verse and Ultimate-verse?: Time travel during the dimension hopping.
Seriously, people, I'm about this close to just giving up on this Ultimate timeline thing altogether. There are just too many screw-ups otherwise. Check the order now, let me know if there are still any problems in your estimations.
Exactly.
Fo ' sho'!
TwilightEL
Well-Known Member
That does fit much better.
I'm sorry you're finding the Ultimate timeline so frustrating. I thought this was the ENTIRE POINT of the Ultimates line, that they would have a simple, streamlined, easy to follow continuity! There are only four main titles and less than a dozen miniseries! HALF OF THIS UNIVERSE HAS BEEN WRITTEN BY ONE PERSON. The idea of "Well, it doesn't really fit into continuity, but it's a fun story" works for 616, but THIS ISN'T 616. Marvel needs to get a grip, make Bendis drop a few titles and stop phoning it in, and get some editors who actually care about the story.
DIrishB
The Timeline Guy
Yeah, so far. I just went back and re-read the Cable arc, and I think I've found a solution. Only one mention of Kitty and Peter Parker is made, and its by Professor Xavier. In fact, its in response to Storm saying that Kitty is thinking of leaving the team. He says something to the effect that "Kitty and Peter's relationship is further separating her from the team". I see no reason why this can't be seen as taking place post-break-up and that in fact the break up with Peter is another reason she wants to leave the team. Right now, its the only way to make sense of it.
Agreed. Unfortunately, the Ultimate timeline has always has a fair degree of frustration associated with it. Yet for some off reason, I keep trying.
Neriek
Member
Well, I suppose that it just is like that. I think that they should not have to many refernces to other comics that talk about their story, because then they will contradict themselves with all of the other things that they say.
BTW, one thing I have been wondering is how you place some of the things in the story. Like, how do you know that the Clone Saga in USM comes after the God War saga in UFF? Do you just place them where there is a gap between sagas?
BTW, one thing I have been wondering is how you place some of the things in the story. Like, how do you know that the Clone Saga in USM comes after the God War saga in UFF? Do you just place them where there is a gap between sagas?
