Lost *spoilers*

I liked tonight's episode a lot. Sawyer is always a great character, whenever he's active on a mission. He's always going to find out what will benefit him most and do anything in order to get it. Classic.
Yeah, he always makes scenes so damn good. I'm wondering why he didn't stop Kate at the airport if he's a cop.

I really wanted the girl that he went on the date with to be Juliet. But it was Charlotte.
I was hoping she'd be married to Faraday, cause really he deserves that.

Decent episode. Expect next week's Richard episode to kick start the second half.
Oh yeah, the players are set now it time for a final tale before the endgame
Who thinks Desmond is locked away in the sub?

I do, I read a theory that the only way Ben returned to the island is by surrounding himself with the oceanic six. Think of the island as magnet for these people. It attracts them, but turning the wheel reverses their pole pushing them away from the island. The only way to go back is to be around people the island is pulling harder. So for widmore to return he'd need some key player to negate his exile.
 
Entertainment Weekley said:
THEORY: Remember that time travel moment from season 5 that's never been explained, when Sawyer and co. were fired upon by another raft in the distance? They returned some shots, but flashed away before they could figure out who was shooting at them? Here's your answer, kids: It's going to be Sawyer's boat, paddling over Zooropa with his selected sub friends. Will there be casualties? Talk about a past coming back to haunt you...

Eeek!
 
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I love that it's on USA.
 
Apparently it's all in Latin with no subtitles.
 
There is a good amount of english.

Tonight's episode was pretty huge feeling. I liked it, for sure, and definitely think Richard is a much more awesome character. He's gone through a lot. We got several answers and we are beginning to see other big stuff fleshed out a lot more which is cool. The Jacob/Man in Black scenes are awesome.
 
I was joking about the Latin thing.

I'm really disappointed. We've been waiting for a Richard episode for 3 seasons now and while it was quite fun, it just didn't seem necessary. We already knew that most of this stuff had happened... and we only have so many episodes left with so much to explain.

I can't believe that old wooden ship took out the statue. Also, I am sick of Biblical references. I've seen them so many times.

Seasons 4-6 are a completely different show than Seasons 1-3. Both are good but I was more interested in the latter. I wanted to see what would have happened without time travel and mystical beings. Oh well.

I hope the rest of the season is a satisfying conclusion.

I've just checked a bunch of other places and aside from the odd person like me, there are a bunch of people talking about how this is the best episode yet. I'm having flashbacks to after The Constant ended and people were going nuts about that episode too. :(
 
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I hate "The Constant" too, but mainly just because it was told pretty poorly, especially the climax, and the plot was just so contrived and ridiculous, and filled with holes that I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone when I argue about the existence of. But moving on....

The thing with Lost is, I completely agree it was a whole different show until the end of the Season 3 finale, and I completely agree it was much better then too. But I think a lot of that was the almost painful level of mystery and suspense, and no matter how you start answering questions, you're going to lose something when you do. The show always had something dancing on the edge of supernatural. They could've revealed it all to be smoke and mirrors, and that wouldn't have been completely satisfying. They've currently revealed it to be a combination of pure science fiction and some sort of ancient Egyptian curse.... or something.... and that isn't entirely satisfying either, but I still prefer it because it's so cool on a primal level. It would've been nice if they could've done some extremely cryptic, subtler and still have it answer enough for the whole show to be worth it, but I guess that was almost impossible to hope for.

If they'd pulled all this stuff out of nowhere, it would've been a lot worse, but since they had two somewhat lackluster(but still pretty great) seasons to ease us into it, it's not so bad. I would've loved if they'd never done all the time-travel stuff, the talking to ghosts stuff, and to be totally frank I'm still not ****ing over the death of Charlie, which is neck and neck with the first Flashforward for the moment it became "The New Lost". But as it is I've long since gotten used to it and can just enjoy this home stretch for the buffet of dramatic unmaskings it is.

ON TONIGHT'S EPISODE:

- Nestor Carbonell's incredible, Emmy-worthy performance was the main attraction.

- I'd forgotten about "Dr. Magnus Hanso" and the Black Rock being his "final resting place". Chills when they mentioned his name.

- I don't care how much we'd already figured out, it was extremely satisfying to see the whole Black Rock crash, with Richard on board, and it taking out the statue was an amazing, out-of-nowhere moment that I loved. Brilliant. I have no trouble believing it could do that. It wasn't old at the time, it's huge, ships like that were built to be extremely hardy, and it was thrown by a tidal wave.

- Besides, even if we figured out he was a slave on the Black Rock, we never knew he was a timid, God-fearing peasant.... my mind is still being blown trying to reconcile the two sides of him we've seen now. It's amazing.

- The slaves seeing Taweret's terrifying image looming in the storm was excellent.

- The island must have been in the Atlantic during 1867, as Richard was being transported from the Canary Islands to the New World? Hope we get to find out why it moved.

- Titus Wellever is ridiculously cool and it's getting pretty frustrating that his character has to be played by Locke most of the time, which honestly just seems like an excuse to have Terry O'Quinn still be a regular on the show. On the brighter side it make's Wellever's appearances even more special, but still.... I just really hope they use him more, especially in the present.

Really enjoyed it overall.
 
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If the island is keeping MiB from leaving, and the island blew up in the flash-sideways episode, does that mean the sideways world is MiB unleashed and it's not as bad as we think?
 
I hate "The Constant" too, but mainly just because it was told pretty poorly, especially the climax, and the plot was just so contrived and ridiculous, and filled with holes that I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone when I argue about the existence of. But moving on....

Could you elaborate on what, specifically, you don't like about The Constant? I'm of the opinion that it's far-and-away the best episode in the series. Which parts do you think are 'told pretty poorly? Not to mention being contrived and ridiculous. Desmond's story arc referenced and utilized ideas from Slaughterhouse-Five and a few other time travel/Sci Fi stories, but not to the point of contrivance.

The thing with Lost is, I completely agree it was a whole different show until the end of the Season 3 finale, and I completely agree it was much better then too. But I think a lot of that was the almost painful level of mystery and suspense, and no matter how you start answering questions, you're going to lose something when you do. The show always had something dancing on the edge of supernatural. They could've revealed it all to be smoke and mirrors, and that wouldn't have been completely satisfying. They've currently revealed it to be a combination of pure science fiction and some sort of ancient Egyptian curse.... or something.... and that isn't entirely satisfying either, but I still prefer it because it's so cool on a primal level. It would've been nice if they could've done some extremely cryptic, subtler and still have it answer enough for the whole show to be worth it, but I guess that was almost impossible to hope for.

If they'd pulled all this stuff out of nowhere, it would've been a lot worse, but since they had two somewhat lackluster(but still pretty great) seasons to ease us into it, it's not so bad. I would've loved if they'd never done all the time-travel stuff, the talking to ghosts stuff, and to be totally frank I'm still not ****ing over the death of Charlie, which is neck and neck with the first Flashforward for the moment it became "The New Lost". But as it is I've long since gotten used to it and can just enjoy this home stretch for the buffet of dramatic unmaskings it is.

I don't think that anyone would argue that seasons 1-3 are thematically and stylistically different than 4-6 (so far), but the show can be divided even more finely than that. In fact, I would (and have) argued that season 1 exists as its own entity, separate from the rest of the show. The literalism of the science fiction/fantasy elements that so many fans complain about really begin with the unveiling of the Hatch and exploration of DHARMA/The Others. There's still cryptic surrealism utilized in the show, but it hasn't been a definitive element of the plot's trajectory since "Exodus", much less "Through The Looking Glass".

Then again, like I said before, I love the unraveling of the mysteries, time travel, ghost-talk, magical island Gods and all. I do, however, realize that many fans preferred "old LOST" (so to speak). My own mother being one of them...



I liked last night's episode, though. Both 'Dr. Linus' and 'Recon' were disappointing for me, so I'd place 'Ab Aeterno' on the same tier as 'Sundown' and 'The Substitute'. Season 6 hasn't had any episodes that I've found to be independently brilliant, so I'm hoping that it's going to work more effectively as a single, contained narrative, in the vein of season 5, though even less episodic. I think it's going to take at least a few more episodes for us to really buy the Flash-Sideways as an absolutely necessary storytelling tool, since they haven't really become cohesive yet...we're starting to see a bigger picture, though, which is good (Ab Aeterno contributing to this on the Island, rather than the alt-LOST universe). There wasn't much in this episode that I hadn't figured out for myself, but I really think it worked overall, and gave Richard's character some much-needed development.

I think that we can be reasonably sure at this point that Jack will be Jacob's replacement. One of my friends suggested that season 6 will end with Jack (as Jacob) and Locke (as the Man-in-black) sitting on the beach, drawing an obvious parallel to the season 5 finale. It's a good idea (and somewhat probable), and, at the very least, the idea of these two fulfilling these roles will probably play out in some way or another.

If the island is keeping MiB from leaving, and the island blew up in the flash-sideways episode, does that mean the sideways world is MiB unleashed and it's not as bad as we think?

I think that the Flash-Sideways universe being utilized to showcase the inherent necessity of Jacob and the island keeping Smokey at bay. Initially, it may seem that the majority of the characters have a 'better' life off-island, but it's contrary to what they were meant to do. That is, uh, safeguard a magical island that contains the physical personification of evil. Their lives in the Flash-Sidewasy-verse will probably be utterly ruined by the Man in Black's machinations (whatever they are). But for that to happen effectively, we have to see them being genuinely happy first, so that our expectations can be properly subverted. I'd imagine that's what the first half of season 6 has been for, hence the startling lack of development/explanation.

To loop this all around to my initial point, though, I predict the entire supporting cast dying (as has been rumored) both in the Sideways-verse and on The Island, leaving Locke and Jack to argue about whether or not the plot of entire show has been indicative the 'progress' that Jacob spoke about in the beginning of 'The Incident'. And I think that the first three seasons being so different from the latter three is qualified by Jacob's monologue on wanting to let people function and make the right choices on their own. The Smoke Monster's place as an existential menace in the first few seasons represents his attempts at corrupting them, much in the way that Jacob mentioned he is prone to because of his bitter misanthropy. So, will the writers come out and tell us whether or the principle cast was capable of being 'good', in spite of the Man-in-Black's intervention? I doubt it. But I'm sure Locke and Jack will have dialogue about it after they fully assume their roles.
 
Could you elaborate on what, specifically, you don't like about The Constant? I'm of the opinion that it's far-and-away the best episode in the series. Which parts do you think are 'told pretty poorly? Not to mention being contrived and ridiculous. Desmond's story arc referenced and utilized ideas from Slaughterhouse-Five and a few other time travel/Sci Fi stories, but not to the point of contrivance.

I'm curious as to your complaints as well.
I agree with Gideon. The show's central theme is a group of people dropped onto an Island and given a chance to change, for better or worse. Despite the recent dominance of an actual story moving the characters forward, nothing else has particularly changed. Last night, we saw Richard is also experiencing the island in a way similar to our characters.

And it worked.

About the Man in Black's level of Evil: thought the show has always dealt with shades of grey, these shades are primarily within our characters and their interactions. Appropriate, given the thematic focus of the show. However, The Man in Black and Jacob arn't our characters, so much as they are this season's overarching catalyst for behavioral change and moral alignment. Like forming relationships with strangers, the Hatch / blind duty under ambiguous circumstances, realigning perception of outsiders, escaping the island, or time travel / dealing with our mistakes. Now we're dealing with the ultimate question: which would you follow?

The two arn't defined so much as good and evil, as they are in the choices they present. But the Man in Black's choices are what most would consider selfish and evil. Important.
 
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I've gone into this a bunch of times before here and it's always ugly, but BASICALLY:

- Past Desmond continuing to live with the memories of being stranded on an island and locked on a boat in the future and still doing everything the exact way he did before, going on the world race, not remembering Sayid when he meets him, etc is hokey at best and inexplicable at worst.

- The entire concept of a "Constant" person in the past and future working the same as a mathematical constant is like the definition of contrived. I don't get how more people don't roll their eyes at this.

- Worst: Faraday's illustration of the concept makes absolutely no sense at all. His rat dies because she has no constant. What's that? A person you encounter in both the future and the past during your travels, causing you to stop travelling. Isn't she encountering YOU in the future and the past? Yes. So she does have a constant. No, we need a dramatic way to illustrate that this process causes you to die, so.... no. No. Shut up! That is a HUGE plot hole and BAD writing and the episode HINGES on it.

- The climax is supposed to be Desmond and Penny's super-emotional reunion, but all the showmanship was killed for me because they never make a point of showing future Desmond's mind come back or that being a big deal. He answers the phone, he's the future Desmond who's been out of touch with her for years, there's no transition between the two minds, he's completely up-to-speed, etc. When did he turn back? The second he heard her voice? Then how is he completely up to speed? It was muddled and should've been handled a lot better for a moment like that.

So.... yeah.
 
I've gone into this a bunch of times before here and it's always ugly, but BASICALLY:

- Past Desmond continuing to live with the memories of being stranded on an island and locked on a boat in the future and still doing everything the exact way he did before, going on the world race, not remembering Sayid when he meets him, etc is hokey at best and inexplicable at worst.

- The entire concept of a "Constant" person in the past and future working the same as a mathematical constant is like the definition of contrived. I don't get how more people don't roll their eyes at this.

- Worst: Faraday's illustration of the concept makes absolutely no sense at all. His rat dies because she has no constant. What's that? A person you encounter in both the future and the past during your travels, causing you to stop travelling. Isn't she encountering YOU in the future and the past? Yes. So she does have a constant. No, we need a dramatic way to illustrate that this process causes you to die, so.... no. No. Shut up! That is a HUGE plot hole and BAD writing and the episode HINGES on it.

- The climax is supposed to be Desmond and Penny's super-emotional reunion, but all the showmanship was killed for me because they never make a point of showing future Desmond's mind come back or that being a big deal. He answers the phone, he's the future Desmond who's been out of touch with her for years, there's no transition between the two minds, he's completely up-to-speed, etc. When did he turn back? The second he heard her voice? Then how is he completely up to speed? It was muddled and should've been handled a lot better for a moment like that.

So.... yeah.

Usually, it's a good idea to pay attention to an episode before you try to critique it.
I mean.
Seriously.

(Why do you critique the comparison with a mathematical concept as if it's an especially contrived science fiction device? The use of it was anything but).

You obviously didn't take a second to actually review his description of a Constant. Faraday explains it as something familiar in both times for the mind, something extraordinarily important to the unstuck consciousness. The Rat never established a Constant because it's a ****ing rat. Think of a Constant as a signpost - as Faraday describes it, something known - by which the mind recognizes its place in time and rights itself.

When Desmond suggests using a person as his Constant, Faraday actually questions the intelligence of the move. Not once does Faraday describe the Science-Fiction Constant as a Person. Like I said before, it pays to rewatch an episode.

As his Constant is established, before Penelope answers the phone, they show past Desmond walking away from her house. After she answers, he stops, knowing internally that everything will be alright. He isn't aware of the Time Travel situation because the chronology of his life has been set back into the correct position by the establishment of a Constant.

The moment was handled in a way effective at conveying the events withoutnot compromising the emotional composition of the scene, which was easily the high point of the story.

I admit there are certainly continuity errors in LOST. Some of which I maintain lasting disappointment with. But none of yours show any actual attempts at understanding the show.
 
Usually, it's a good idea to pay attention to an episode before you try to critique it.
I mean.
Seriously.

:roll:

Faraday explains it as something familiar in both times for the mind, something extraordinarily important to the unstuck consciousness. The Rat never established a Constant because it's a ****ing rat.

Okay, since we're already accusing each other of not understanding anything, I'm going to say neither you or the writers have much understanding of animals. Gotcha. Still a mistake, but just because of misinformation and not sloppy writing I guess.

As his Constant is established, before Penelope answers the phone, they show past Desmond walking away from her house. After she answers, he stops, knowing internally that everything will be alright. He isn't aware of the Time Travel situation because the chronology of his life has been set back into the correct position by the establishment of a Constant.

I'm sorry, but no, they never make that clear. He isn't aware of the time travel situation? So he's just inexplicably finding himself in London instead of in a Scottish boot camp and totally fine with that?

The moment was handled in a way effective at conveying the events withoutnot compromising the emotional composition of the scene, which was easily the high point of the story.

I still disagree.

But none of yours show any actual attempts at understanding the show.

:roll:
 
Am I the only one just clamoring for sawyer to give Smocke a nickname? Every time they have a scene together I'm on the edge of my seat. Also, I feel obliged to post these:

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