Lost *spoilers*

If they use the explanation that his heart is on the other side of his chest (What's that called again?), I think I may throw something at my television.

Ben is from an alternate earth! [/JLA: Earth 2]

Also, I loved Sayid's drug speak. Rambling about all the stations and the electromagnetism and the incident and coming from the future and they're all like "What the ****? How does he know this ****?"

So... the incident. Presumably Chang survives it since he talks about it in the video, unless one of the future people tells him about it... but I think that would be a weak explanation.
 
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Now I know the anagrams on Lost are normally just for fun but this might be the best one yet. Remember that Room 32 video that were brainwashing Karl with? A message that played backwards said: "Only fools are enslaved by time and space." The words Adam and Eve can be found among the letters in that message.

So what's the anagram?
Bones of Nadlers may lay lost deep in cave.

Guess whose surname that is.
Bernard and Rose, that's who!

Also, someone needs to make a video of Sayid shooting Ben as a kid, dub in "**** you timeline, try and fix this!" and then his maniacal laughter. It would be the best thing ever.
 
I guessed that Adam and Eve were
Rose and Bernard
on Lostpedia and they all said I was crazy. Since they've gone missing, I figure that's where they'll end up.

Anyway, last night's episode was probably my favorite this season so far. Sayid is such a great character... How could this show go on without him? Luckily, it won't have to... Although if he keeps this up I don't know where he'll end up.

I liked everything. Damn, nothing else to say.
 
. . .uh?

So, I'm guessing Ben is much like Christian and Locke? Resurrected by the Island? I mean. . .he was shot in the heart. How do you come back from that barring the mystical powers of the Island?

You don't. I'm guessing this is the more likely means of his coming back, which would lend all that much more credence to his fierce defense of and desire to control the island at all costs.

I screamed "holy s***!" at my tv.
 
You don't. I'm guessing this is the more likely means of his coming back, which would lend all that much more credence to his fierce defense of and desire to control the island at all costs.

I screamed "holy s***!" at my tv.

:lol: Me too.

And the new girl, Ilana seems ok now that I think about it. The writers have her incorporated into the story, but still has her fresh enough to be original. I'd like to see more of her and Caesar for sure.
 
Woah.

Poor Sayid. He has no idea what is going on. And he got tied up to a tree and drugged!

I was thinking that Ben had met Richard and told him that they had captured a Hostile called Sayid. Richard wants to know who this is so he sends the flaming bus into the compound. But it was just young Ben. That evil genius.

I was also thinking that because Ben freed Sayid, he knew in the future when they got off the island, Sayid would work for Ben - because he owed him.

So do we all still think this is set on one timeline or was Faraday wrong and it's diverged? It would explain why Ben knows how to manipulate these people so easily... he practically grew up with half of them.

And then Sayid shot young him! Insane. I want to see how this is resolved.

Looks like next episode focuses on Kate and Jack... therefore dull. :(
I don't think Ben would have made the connection, I mean 30 years later, from only a few hours with the guy it's like he wouldn't reconisize or even think that its the same Sayid.
Ben is from an alternate earth! [/JLA: Earth 2]

Also, I loved Sayid's drug speak. Rambling about all the stations and the electromagnetism and the incident and coming from the future and they're all like "What the ****? How does he know this ****?"

So... the incident. Presumably Chang survives it since he talks about it in the video, unless one of the future people tells him about it... but I think that would be a weak explanation.
My guess is that the incident will the season finale and also be related to the lost of Pierre's arm. And from the comic con footage, its apparant he knows it's coming/
:lol: Me too.

And the new girl, Ilana seems ok now that I think about it. The writers have her incorporated into the story, but still has her fresh enough to be original. I'd like to see more of her and Caesar for sure.

I'm kind of surprise she, a bounty hunter, is taking sidekick role to Caesar.
 
I don't think Ben would have made the connection, I mean 30 years later, from only a few hours with the guy it's like he wouldn't reconisize or even think that its the same Sayid.

I've had enough of the 'they wouldn't have made the connection' stuff, really. It's not a stretch for me to believe that Rosseau wouldn't remember, but Ben?

I have no doubt that he remembers. After all, remember what he told Sayid: "I didn't make you kill anyone. You're a killer." Having experienced Sayid's willingness to (try to) kill him when he was a fifteen year old, I'm sure Ben has a thing or two about Sayid pegged down.
 
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I've had enough of the 'they wouldn't have made the connection' stuff, really. It's not a stretch for me to believe that Rosseau wouldn't remember, but Ben?

I have no doubt that he remembers. After all, remember what he told Sayid: "I didn't make you kill anyone. You're a killer." Having experienced Sayid's willingness to (try to) kill him when he was a fifteen year old, I'm sure Ben has a thing or two about Sayid pegged down.

You have trouble believing child hood memories that only consist of a few hours wouldn't amount to anything thing coherent enough to immediately think anything more than "reminds me of the one guy/what a coincidence" than immediately think "time travel" 30 years later.

Just think 30 year, 3 decades and we've seen only a piece of the crazy **** he's seen and hinted at a lot more since, it's very unlikely that he'd make a connection. Hell I can pretty much grantee that if I saw people who use to live next door to me 10 years ago I wouldn't recognize them not matter how little they've changed.

My point is 30 years is a long time, specially considering his young age at the time. Though I just thought of loop hole to my own argument which is how Widmore remembered Locke 50 years later. Which I'm going to say because the Others than discussed time travel in a debriefing sort of situation, so the very idea that he's from the future is implanted in him, and that the other have followed John's movements to a degree.
 
You have trouble believing child hood memories that only consist of a few hours wouldn't amount to anything thing coherent enough to immediately think anything more than "reminds me of the one guy/what a coincidence" than immediately think "time travel" 30 years later.

Just think 30 year, 3 decades and we've seen only a piece of the crazy **** he's seen and hinted at a lot more since, it's very unlikely that he'd make a connection. Hell I can pretty much grantee that if I saw people who use to live next door to me 10 years ago I wouldn't recognize them not matter how little they've changed.

My point is 30 years is a long time, specially considering his young age at the time. Though I just thought of loop hole to my own argument which is how Widmore remembered Locke 50 years later. Which I'm going to say because the Others than discussed time travel in a debriefing sort of situation, so the very idea that he's from the future is implanted in him, and that the other have followed John's movements to a degree.

If someone shot you in the heart, regardless of your age, I bet you'd damn well remember exactly who it was.
 
Honestly there's a brilliant irony I think that's at play here. Before being shot by one of the people he thought he could trust, he was merely a boy who wanted to escape his horrible little life. After this I think its very likely that he'll never trust anyone again. This shooting probably turned that little boy into the monster that is Benjamin Linus.

And I think its ridiculous to say that Ben Linus would forget Sayid's face, ESPECIALLY after the shooting. He's known all along. The Ben/Sayid relationship just got so much more complicated in such an interesting way.

There's also the fact that Sayid will almost definitely become our introduction to the society of "hostiles" as it exists on the Island in the 70s. Which means he meets Widmore. And it seems more and more likely that Sayid will, knowing the threat that Ben poses, instill in Widmore the fear of Ben taking over. Setting up the pieces for the chess match between the two of them that this series is centered on.

I think it would be brilliant if he just accidentally set the cards in motion for the entire series. He made Ben Ben, he turned Widmore into Widmore. Just imagine what will happen when he realizes what he's done. (assuming it plays out like that).
 
And I think its ridiculous to say that Ben Linus would forget Sayid's face, ESPECIALLY after the shooting. He's known all along. The Ben/Sayid relationship just got so much more complicated in such an interesting way.
Oh come on, the kid interacts with him for a total 20 minutes in his life and 30 years later when he runs into the same guy after having already viewed reports on the survivor's lives, I doubt he would act thinking they were the same guy. I mean people tend to exaggerate and compress their memories. I'm not saying the first time he saw Sayid he wouldn't think "Hey he looks like that one guy", but he definitely think "That's definitely the guy" Its just that after 30 years, longer than most of us have been alive, he would not so readily make that association. Unless he has a photographic memory, I would not by that him using Sayid was part of his master plan because he knew Sayid somehow traveled to the past.

I also think that Jack recognizing Desmond was a big leap.
There's also the fact that Sayid will almost definitely become our introduction to the society of "hostiles" as it exists on the Island in the 70s. Which means he meets Widmore. And it seems more and more likely that Sayid will, knowing the threat that Ben poses, instill in Widmore the fear of Ben taking over. Setting up the pieces for the chess match between the two of them that this series is centered on.

I think it would be brilliant if he just accidentally set the cards in motion for the entire series. He made Ben Ben, he turned Widmore into Widmore. Just imagine what will happen when he realizes what he's done. (assuming it plays out like that).
I know, this is where Lost writers shine. They continually find new ways to surprise, make us re-think everything we know, and reconsider who is responsible for what. And they do this without having to alter continuity. Just Brilliant storytelling on a grand level
 
You have trouble believing child hood memories that only consist of a few hours wouldn't amount to anything thing coherent enough to immediately think anything more than "reminds me of the one guy/what a coincidence" than immediately think "time travel" 30 years later.

Just think 30 year, 3 decades and we've seen only a piece of the crazy **** he's seen and hinted at a lot more since, it's very unlikely that he'd make a connection. Hell I can pretty much grantee that if I saw people who use to live next door to me 10 years ago I wouldn't recognize them not matter how little they've changed.

I also think that Jack recognizing Desmond was a big leap.

Then I think you're in the minority, or at least not a good representation of the majority.

A lot of people may not be that good with faces, but a lot of people are very good with faces. I know there are plenty of times when I'll recognize somebody in a commercial from some single episode of a show I saw years earlier, and I know I'm not alone.

There is no ****ing way somebody as smart as Ben would forget the face of the man who shot him when he was fifteen.... especially if he found out from other Dharma folks that he'd said his name was Sayid.
 
Also, someone needs to make a video of Sayid shooting Ben as a kid, dub in "**** you timeline, try and fix this!" and then his maniacal laughter. It would be the best thing ever.

:lol:

You have trouble believing child hood memories that only consist of a few hours wouldn't amount to anything thing coherent enough to immediately think anything more than "reminds me of the one guy/what a coincidence" than immediately think "time travel" 30 years later.

Just think 30 year, 3 decades and we've seen only a piece of the crazy **** he's seen and hinted at a lot more since, it's very unlikely that he'd make a connection. Hell I can pretty much grantee that if I saw people who use to live next door to me 10 years ago I wouldn't recognize them not matter how little they've changed.

My point is 30 years is a long time, specially considering his young age at the time. Though I just thought of loop hole to my own argument which is how Widmore remembered Locke 50 years later. Which I'm going to say because the Others than discussed time travel in a debriefing sort of situation, so the very idea that he's from the future is implanted in him, and that the other have followed John's movements to a degree.


Don't forget Ben is a genius. Genius-level intelligence usually equates to a far more than average ability for memorization and analyzation.

Ben would remember Sayid shooting him.

Honestly there's a brilliant irony I think that's at play here. Before being shot by one of the people he thought he could trust, he was merely a boy who wanted to escape his horrible little life. After this I think its very likely that he'll never trust anyone again. This shooting probably turned that little boy into the monster that is Benjamin Linus.

And I think its ridiculous to say that Ben Linus would forget Sayid's face, ESPECIALLY after the shooting. He's known all along. The Ben/Sayid relationship just got so much more complicated in such an interesting way.

There's also the fact that Sayid will almost definitely become our introduction to the society of "hostiles" as it exists on the Island in the 70s. Which means he meets Widmore. And it seems more and more likely that Sayid will, knowing the threat that Ben poses, instill in Widmore the fear of Ben taking over. Setting up the pieces for the chess match between the two of them that this series is centered on.

I think it would be brilliant if he just accidentally set the cards in motion for the entire series. He made Ben Ben, he turned Widmore into Widmore. Just imagine what will happen when he realizes what he's done. (assuming it plays out like that).

:shock:

Best show ever, especially if thats true. Oh wow...

Oh come on, the kid interacts with him for a total 20 minutes in his life and 30 years later when he runs into the same guy after having already viewed reports on the survivor's lives, I doubt he would act thinking they were the same guy. I mean people tend to exaggerate and compress their memories. I'm not saying the first time he saw Sayid he wouldn't think "Hey he looks like that one guy", but he definitely think "That's definitely the guy" Its just that after 30 years, longer than most of us have been alive, he would not so readily make that association. Unless he has a photographic memory, I would not by that him using Sayid was part of his master plan because he knew Sayid somehow traveled to the past.

Ben rested all his hopes on Sayid being his escape from his dad, etc. Ben probably spent the 2 or 3 days Sayid was locked up (since he'd been bringing him food from the first day) analyzing and wondering about Sayid. Several days isn't a long time, but its long enough to commit someone's face to memory, especially if you're Ben. And especially if your last memory of that person is them shooting you. Its hard to forget a face when they've committed violence against you, especially attempting to murder you (which at the time you wouldn't understand at all).

And I really don't think Ben didn't know Sayid was Sayid when they met in Season 2. I think Ben has been playing this from the start, and it would perfectly explain why Ben is using Sayid: he knows he's capable from self-experience, and he gets to use Sayid in a way, control and manipulate him in a way that to Ben would be a better form of revenge than merely killing Sayid. Least thats how I see it.

I also think that Jack recognizing Desmond was a big leap.

Not at all. It'd only been about 3 years between their meetings, and while it might've been harder to remember someone with a similar accent, Desmond's voice and manner of speaking probably helped him stick in Jack's mind more than his face. For instance, I remember my 4 cousins from Dublin (who I met only once when I was 12) more distinctly than any of the dozens of cousins I have in the Boston area who I've met at various points in my life (big family). I know thats not the most accurate example, but it works well enough.

I'd remember Desmond if I'd met him 3 years ago (presuming he were a real person and I didn't see him as a character on a TV show I've watched for 5 years). I probably wouldn't remember Jack, though.

Cuz PM is right, he's boring. ;)

Then I think you're in the minority, or at least not a good representation of the majority.

A lot of people may not be that good with faces, but a lot of people are very good with faces. I know there are plenty of times when I'll recognize somebody in a commercial from some single episode of a show I saw years earlier, and I know I'm not alone.

There is no ****ing way somebody as smart as Ben would forget the face of the man who shot him when he was fifteen.... especially if he found out from other Dharma folks that he'd said his name was Sayid.

Perfect summation.

I'm the same way, pointing out bit actors--usually not knowing their name, but knowing where I've seen them before.
 
:lol:




Don't forget Ben is a genius. Genius-level intelligence usually equates to a far more than average ability for memorization and analyzation.

Ben would remember Sayid shooting him.
I've never seen any evidence towards him being good at memorizing images, sure he's a genius at manipulating people but that doesn automatically translate to great memorization of images from childhood
Ben rested all his hopes on Sayid being his escape from his dad, etc. Ben probably spent the 2 or 3 days Sayid was locked up (since he'd been bringing him food from the first day) analyzing and wondering about Sayid. Several days isn't a long time, but its long enough to commit someone's face to memory, especially if you're Ben. And especially if your last memory of that person is them shooting you. Its hard to forget a face when they've committed violence against you, especially attempting to murder you (which at the time you wouldn't understand at all).
Sayid was in custody at the Barracks for a little over 24 hours from midday to evening of the next night. Which would equal 4 times food would be brought to him, Once the first night, then breakfast lunch and Dinner. Guessing each interactions being about 2 minutes that would only be 8 minutes. And in keeping with my original guess of 20 minutes that allows for 12 minutes of running, plenty of time to get away from the Barracks(most of that time being in a dark jungle focusing on running). Which ended with Ben being suddenly rendered unconscious. Given the amount of time on a still developing mind weighted against 30 years of future experiences, along with the Other's detail files on the survivors, I doubt he would assume these two different men, given the information available to him, there's reason he would jump to such a dramatic conclusion.
And I really don't think Ben didn't know Sayid was Sayid when they met in Season 2. I think Ben has been playing this from the start, and it would perfectly explain why Ben is using Sayid: he knows he's capable from self-experience, and he gets to use Sayid in a way, control and manipulate him in a way that to Ben would be a better form of revenge than merely killing Sayid. Least thats how I see it.
I just find this so incredibly far fetched. I mean 30 years later Ben sees the file on Sayid and says "Hmm, clearly his well documented life we've gathered means nothing because I remember once 30 years ago and arab with long hair and the same name shot me. And I also recall him whimpering 'I'm a killer' while unconscious because clearly since I know how to manipulate people's emotions I must be a genius in every aspect of my being. So that's all I need to manipulate him" Because even if Ben somehow pieced together that time traveling is involved in this instant, it really doesn't help with manipulating him since he's only learned so extremely little about Sayid in the past.

Not at all. It'd only been about 3 years between their meetings, and while it might've been harder to remember someone with a similar accent, Desmond's voice and manner of speaking probably helped him stick in Jack's mind more than his face. For instance, I remember my 4 cousins from Dublin (who I met only once when I was 12) more distinctly than any of the dozens of cousins I have in the Boston area who I've met at various points in my life (big family). I know thats not the most accurate example, but it works well enough.

I'd remember Desmond if I'd met him 3 years ago (presuming he were a real person and I didn't see him as a character on a TV show I've watched for 5 years). I probably wouldn't remember Jack, though.
I'm willing to give you that, I just found the "What-d you say?... You!?!?!?" very forced


Then I think you're in the minority, or at least not a good representation of the majority.

A lot of people may not be that good with faces, but a lot of people are very good with faces. I know there are plenty of times when I'll recognize somebody in a commercial from some single episode of a show I saw years earlier, and I know I'm not alone.
Perfect summation.

I'm the same way, pointing out bit actors--usually not knowing their name, but knowing where I've seen them before.
Hell I can recount a dozens time I found out that a famous actor was in a movie I saw over a decade ago, and not realizing until I saw that movie again, something you can't quite do with memories.

Think about it this way, you saw an actor in a tv show, it was a good show and you always remembered it. 3 decades later, that's from Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, Goerge Bush, Bill Clinton, George W Bush, Barack Obama, and you see that actor again when given a sheet of his biography that basically proves there is no way he was in that one show. You would just chalk his look and first name up to coincidence and not create a devious plan the hinges on time travel. When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.
There is no ****ing way somebody as smart as Ben would forget the face of the man who shot him when he was fifteen.... especially if he found out from other Dharma folks that he'd said his name was Sayid.
Well considering the shot came as a surprise and I'm guessing that he'll be unconscious, in surgery, and on a good amount of pain killers, I find it much easier that along with 30 years of time and the mind****ing true nature of the island may make his image of past Sayid slightly distorted enough for him to chalk it up to coincidence.

I'm not going to argue this anymore cause it seems neither of us will convince the other, we'll just have to wait and see who's right.
 
Decided to make the video...

[YOUTUBE]nwuoRtgXgQM[/YOUTUBE]
 
I've never seen any evidence towards him being good at memorizing images, sure he's a genius at manipulating people but that doesn automatically translate to great memorization of images from childhood

Sayid was in custody at the Barracks for a little over 24 hours from midday to evening of the next night. Which would equal 4 times food would be brought to him, Once the first night, then breakfast lunch and Dinner. Guessing each interactions being about 2 minutes that would only be 8 minutes. And in keeping with my original guess of 20 minutes that allows for 12 minutes of running, plenty of time to get away from the Barracks(most of that time being in a dark jungle focusing on running). Which ended with Ben being suddenly rendered unconscious. Given the amount of time on a still developing mind weighted against 30 years of future experiences, along with the Other's detail files on the survivors, I doubt he would assume these two different men, given the information available to him, there's reason he would jump to such a dramatic conclusion.

I just find this so incredibly far fetched. I mean 30 years later Ben sees the file on Sayid and says "Hmm, clearly his well documented life we've gathered means nothing because I remember once 30 years ago and arab with long hair and the same name shot me. And I also recall him whimpering 'I'm a killer' while unconscious because clearly since I know how to manipulate people's emotions I must be a genius in every aspect of my being. So that's all I need to manipulate him" Because even if Ben somehow pieced together that time traveling is involved in this instant, it really doesn't help with manipulating him since he's only learned so extremely little about Sayid in the past.

I'm sure at some point Ben figures out that they are from the future (either learns from Richard or something happens and he learns first hand). At that point he starts gathering information on them, making sure he knows everything about them before they get to the island. He may not have recognized Sayid 30 years later, but he knows it's him b/c he's been keeping tabs on him. When Flight 815 crashes, he realizes this is when they get here, and he's got his whole plan prepared; he sends Ethan and the other guy to infiltrate the losties and report back.

and Jack recognized Desmond b/c of his accent and the way he said "brotha"
(not in a gangsta kind of way, in a Scottish kind of way)
but Desmond didn't recognize Jack until after the computer broke and Desmond tried to run away and Jack stopped him with the gun and yelled at him for believing the world was going to end if they didn't put in the numbers and he yells "You don't even know what you're running from!" and that's when Desmond remembers meeting him (from running, and the conversation about not having faith/believing in miracles) so that didn't really seem forced to me.
[youtube]qPR6gGE4ssU[/youtube]
 
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I'm sure at some point Ben figures out that they are from the future (either learns from Richard or something happens and he learns first hand). At that point he starts gathering information on them, making sure he knows everything about them before they get to the island. He may not have recognized Sayid 30 years later, but he knows it's him b/c he's been keeping tabs on him. When Flight 815 crashes, he realizes this is when they get here, and he's got his whole plan prepared; he sends Ethan and the other guy to infiltrate the losties and report back.
Yeah Richard could easily make that connection, I'm just no certain he would share it with Ben.
and Jack recognized Desmond b/c of his accent and the way he said "brotha"
(not in a gangsta kind of way, in a Scottish kind of way)
but Desmond didn't recognize Jack until after the computer broke and Desmond tried to run away and Jack stopped him with the gun and yelled at him for believing the world was going to end if they didn't put in the numbers and he yells "You don't even know what you're running from!" and that's when Desmond remembers meeting him (from running, and the conversation about not having faith/believing in miracles) so that didn't really seem forced to me.
[youtube]qPR6gGE4ssU[/youtube]
Still it just feels too convenient Jack remembered that enough to make the connection given the stress of the situation. I'm not saying they would never recognizes each, but the timing just felt off
 

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