Heroes Season 3 (Spoilers)

[E]

A great article about the ousting of Loeb and Alexander. Make sure that you read the last paragraph...

That's very interesting...It didn't say how many have been shot though. I wonder how much they tweak what Loeb and Alexander wrote.

 

[Bass]

A great article about the ousting of Loeb and Alexander. Make sure that you read the last paragraph...

I don't see how that's great or really informative.

"They got fired because Heroes isn't doing too well." We knew this. "They're influence extends to episode 17, leading into the fourth volume." I already pointed out that we most likely wouldn't see any change as a result of the firings until at least Fugitives.

The idea that they 'masterminded the fix' isn't evidence one way or the other that this is a good or bad thing.

The article was sensationalistic and vague with virtually nothing added to the discussion except an number - 17. :?

Sylar was one my favorite villains ever and they just ruined him forever.


The best Heroes episode ever was "Homecoming"

I had chills when Sylar first appears and fights Peter.

Peter saves the cheerleader. Insane.

Every Peter-Sylar showdown after that seem to led to something epic that never happened.

"You're like me, I wonder how that works."

This is a common problem for recurring TV villains. They appear over and over again, and don't win. Each time they reappear, they become lamer and lamer because they become a joke: they never win.

Some good exceptions:
Alfred Bester in BABYLON 5. He appears rarely at first, then more frequently as the show continues - and he ends up 'winning' a lot of the battles. Anyone who's seen all of the show, knows what I mean when I say, "Mars".

Spike from BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER. He appears as the false big bad in season 2 (Buffy seasons always had a false big bad that was the 'big bad' for the first half of the season, and they're replaced by the true big bad). He then came back once in season 3, and after that he showed up and Whedon embraced the fact that a villain who keeps losing becomes a joke: he made Spike a funny, tragic character. He developed him brilliantly.

Now, compare this with Sylar. Sylar starts off season 1 haunting the show: not only does he possess more powers than anyone in the cast (save Peter they all have one power), not only does he know how to USE those powers, and not only can he get more and more - he goes around killing people to steal their powers. You can't buy him off. He's terrifying. Everytime he meets a hero, you get the sense that hero REALLY COULD DIE. And Sylar WAS GOING TO TRY HIS DAMNED BEST TO KILL THEM. The climax of season 1, he "dies". We all get chills because we know he'll be back but we don't know when. So what happens? They don't wait a long time to return Sylar with a big, dramatic entrance. He comes back, next season without any powers. He's lame, kills off Alejandro. Runs away. Gets his powers back. And GROWS A CONSCIENCE. He's in every damn episode, killing off guys we've never seen before. He's lost his majesty through overuse. I look at Spike and think "Yes, Sylar could be a good hero" but Spike took three seasons till he got to a point where he wanted to be a good guy. Mama Petrelli tells him he's not so bad really in one episode, and now Sylar and HRG are hanging out. And they try to play the 'he's scary card'. Rubbish.

I have to say, Homecoming was the episode where I sat up and went, "WOW! THIS SHOW IS GOING SOMEWHERE!" And you know what? Season 2 had perhaps, the single best episode in the entire show to date: The episode where HRG gets shot in the eye. You know it was a ****ing awesome episode.

I miss Heroes.

 

[thee great one]

I started to lose interest in season 2.

 

[DIrishB]

I think I'm going to give this show until the next 'volume' (Fugitives). The reason being that I'm thinking season 3 is them trying to undo season 2 (why?) and I don't think Loeb's influence will be gone for at least a month (how far ahead are the show's filmed?)

I think four to six episodes into Volume Four, Loeb's influence should be noticeably gone.

EDIT: Nevermind, just read that EW article Ultimatedjf posted, and it said exactly that.

 

[Planet-man]

I think the show is visibly 'coming back' already, and tonight's episode went out of its way to try and prove that. Reminiscing about the solar eclipse, "Yatta!!!", etc. I'm hopeful, and tonight's ep was really good. Arthur Petrelli has a lot of potential as the supervillain the show always needed, and the last scene with the distinctive forming of the 'teams', as in, people know what's what and they'll be a significant decrease in pairs of them running around, bumping into each other at various times, was very cool.

I also love Sylar + Elle. Or as I'm sure a lot of YouTube will soon be calling them, "Sylle".

...

"Ellyar"

...

"Syeller"

...

"Gabrielle". There.

 

[thekendon]

It seems like getting rid of the two was more of an attempt to get people to care than it was to take the show in a different direction. The only reason that I say this is because when I found out, I started to care more about Heroes.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

They managed to make Hiro likable and fun again, and they continued the Elle/Sylar thing that I already loved last week.

I am not a hater for Reformed!Sylar. I like it even... And putting Elle by his side insures that she'll stay at the forefront, which I approve 100%.

There's still some weird plot stuff happening, but I'm enjoying watching this more than the beginning of the season.

 

[thee great one]

I don't like the Sylar-Elle thing cause it came out of nowhere with no hints to their past "relationship".

 

[E]

I'm not sure I understand the whole empathy thing but hot dang I do like that Arthur Patrelli. I like seeing how events unfold in the long run - specifically, the movement of Nathan to President.

 

[Goodwill]

How are Hiro's powers not gone?

And were they trying to mimick the effect from Watchmen when Mr. Manhatten first starts to get his powers?

 

[Volunteer Fire Detective]

Another mediocre episode, I thought. Here's what I didn't like:

- Sylar has had Peter's ability all along? Stupid. Stupid, stupid, stupid. And not for the reason you think; I'm totally fine with that, in theory. But really, what would have been more interesting for his character arc: having to forego ever getting any new powers in order to truly become the "good guy" that he wants to be, thereby actually sacrificing something; or having the same ability that made Peter a walking plot hole and having to sacrifice absolutely nothing in order to have this ridiculous character switch? I think the former would have been more gratifying, but then we couldn't have the random Sylar and Elle pairing that the writers are shoving down our throats.

- The villains, besides Arthur Petrelli, are lame. Think of it this way: we have Flint and Knox, who were outsmarted by a powerless Peter (let that sink in a minute: outsmarted ... by Peter), Sylar is a double agent and lovey-dovey Elle will follow him wherever he goes, and Tracy couldn't even beat Mohinder when her life depended on it. I guess that's a little unfair; she's slightly more capable that the others - her character switch just makes no sense.

- Hiro's whole storyline. What purpose does it serve? I suppose we'll find out soon enough, but right now ... it's utterly pointless. Usutu had to be killed so we could see the exact same storyline played out with Hiro again? Ridiculous.

- The eclipse had NOTHING to do with their powers. This whole aspect of it is just headache inducing. Okay, so, they were all displaying powers before the eclipse in the first episode, so it had nothing to do with them getting their powers. And if it truly affected abilities, wouldn't Hiro have experienced some malfunctions when he went back to feudal Japan and witnessed the eclipse? Oh, wait, never mind, season two never happened.

- The end was retarded. Arthur Petrellie sittin' there drawin' a an eclipse, just to hammer home the point, in case you'd forgotten, that IT'S COMING!

Things I liked:

- Parkman's whole storyline was very good, and it was nice to see a more human side to Arthur; the best villains are the ones with dimension to them, and it was almost sweet the way he finally decided to let Angela go, even knowing that she would probably betray him again in the future. Although I'm getting tired of the constant references to Daphne's past; we don't need to be reminded of it every five minutes.

- Hiro's references to recent comic book events was fun. I haven't kept up with regular Marvel continuity in quite some time outside of Thor, so I don't know exactly what he was talking about when he said that Hulk was red, but other than that it was interesting (by the way, wasn't Spider-Man's revealing of his secret identity retconned recently? I don't know).

- Nathan once again proving why his character is about 100x more awesome than Peter just by virtue of the fact that he's not borderline mentally handicapped. His inherent distrust of his father was great, and added some much-needed tension, especially knowing that Arthur isn't above killing his son; for a moment there, I half expected Arthur to finish the job. It was a great scene.

 

[Goodwill]

Loeb is writing Hulk and there's a Red Hulk.

 

[ProjectX2]

Hiro referenced Red Hulk?! COME ON, LOEB!

 

[E]

Hiro referenced Red Hulk?! COME ON, LOEB!

My reaction exactly.

He also referenced Captain America being dead and Peter Parker unmasking.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

Despite the fact that DC distributes the Heroes comic stuff...

 

[Random]

Despite the fact that DC distributes the Heroes comic stuff...

Well if you think about it, a red Hulk, a dead Capt America, and an unmasked Spidey are pretty much, if you said this to someone years ago they would have said "What the ****?" It probably only helps DC... wait a minute... Loeb is a double agent for DC! This explains everything!!!

 

[Bass]

I don't like the Sylar-Elle thing cause it came out of nowhere with no hints to their past "relationship".

I know. It's totally balls.

I remember when Elle was introduced; it was stated that she was psychopathic and wasn't really allowed out much. Her dad made a big deal of the fact he was letting her out on her own.

Now... she's completely balanced.

And also... I ****ing hate the bull**** pop psychology that is "If you point out someone's flaws, they'll immediately fix them". It's total rubbish. Sylar's told, "You're a good boy" and suddenly he ****ing is. And it's all his mother's fault he was bad. That and the 'hunger'. Now, Elle. I can't stand this pop psychology nonsense.

How are Hiro's powers not gone?

Why isn't Hiro dead? Why did Arthur Petrelli let Ando live? Ando is supposed to be dead. Hiro is meant to have killed him. That's why Arthur even knows where he IS.

And how did Arthur know Hiro watched him in the past? How many ****ing random powers does he ****ing have? And wasn't the whole point of hiring Hiro to kill the African because no one else could surprise him? So how did Arthur do it? I suppose now that Arthur is out of bed, he can do whatever the **** he wants.

And were they trying to mimick the effect from Watchmen when Mr. Manhatten first starts to get his powers?

I think it's just coincidence. That said, the entire first season's plot is a mimic of WATCHMEN, so maybe.

Another mediocre episode, I thought. Here's what I didn't like:

- Sylar has had Peter's ability all along? Stupid. Stupid, stupid, stupid. And not for the reason you think; I'm totally fine with that, in theory. But really, what would have been more interesting for his character arc: having to forego ever getting any new powers in order to truly become the "good guy" that he wants to be, thereby actually sacrificing something; or having the same ability that made Peter a walking plot hole and having to sacrifice absolutely nothing in order to have this ridiculous character switch? I think the former would have been more gratifying, but then we couldn't have the random Sylar and Elle pairing that the writers are shoving down our throats.

Peter's power has always been rubbish. Especially on a 'hero'. Sylar is perhaps the one villain where if you give him Peter's power, it doesn't make him a good villain. Sylar goes around eating brains to get power. It's awesome. Imagine if, in the first season, all he had to do was meet them to get their power. Oh, lord. That would be scary.

And you know what I can't stand about Sylar's pleas for redemption? WHY they're such bull****?

He enjoyed killing people. Just a few episodes back, he had fun when he showed Elle he's killed her dad to get his gold power (turned a gun gold) and then took pleasure from cutting open her head.

Then, in a flashback, they had a nice dinner once, Elle fed him a brain for a power he's never used before, and now she's okay with him killing her dad and laughing about it because, hey, her dad was the reason she was in trouble be for. He kinda did her a favour.

Ugh.

- The villains, besides Arthur Petrelli, are lame. Think of it this way: we have Flint and Knox, who were outsmarted by a powerless Peter (let that sink in a minute: outsmarted ... by Peter), Sylar is a double agent and lovey-dovey Elle will follow him wherever he goes, and Tracy couldn't even beat Mohinder when her life depended on it. I guess that's a little unfair; she's slightly more capable that the others - her character switch just makes no sense.

Totally. And I liked Peter's outwitting of Knox and Flint (though I love your "outsmarted... by Peter" :lol. But I agree, for a volume called "Villains", they've killed Munroe, turned Sylar and Elle good... and Arthur Petrelli isn't even a villain. He's a ****ing plot device. Case in point: Hiro.

- Hiro's whole storyline. What purpose does it serve? I suppose we'll find out soon enough, but right now ... it's utterly pointless. Usutu had to be killed so we could see the exact same storyline played out with Hiro again? Ridiculous.

Reading you on FM, baby. AMNESIA. Hiro wakes up from his dream quest with all the answers and then gets given AMNESIA so we're regressing, not progressing.

It's really ****ing annoying. And the next episode won't progress either. Amnesia is the laziest ****ing storytelling device.

And the fact that Hiro's whole "learning to use his powers" thing and the comic shop thing was actually funny and entertaining and the best damn part of the episode, is only more maddening.

- The eclipse had NOTHING to do with their powers. This whole aspect of it is just headache inducing. Okay, so, they were all displaying powers before the eclipse in the first episode, so it had nothing to do with them getting their powers. And if it truly affected abilities, wouldn't Hiro have experienced some malfunctions when he went back to feudal Japan and witnessed the eclipse? Oh, wait, never mind, season two never happened.

8)

- The end was retarded. Arthur Petrellie sittin' there drawin' a an eclipse, just to hammer home the point, in case you'd forgotten, that IT'S COMING!

At least no one is paying the ultimate price...

Things I liked:

- Parkman's whole storyline was very good, and it was nice to see a more human side to Arthur; the best villains are the ones with dimension to them, and it was almost sweet the way he finally decided to let Angela go, even knowing that she would probably betray him again in the future. Although I'm getting tired of the constant references to Daphne's past; we don't need to be reminded of it every five minutes.

Yes. Also, Parkman's great, but his storyline is balls. The guy who plays him deserves many award. The character, on paper is a dull, pathetic loser and waste of time. But the actor is so unbelievably charming and charismatic, he's by far one of my favourites in the show. Love him.

- Hiro's references to recent comic book events was fun. I haven't kept up with regular Marvel continuity in quite some time outside of Thor, so I don't know exactly what he was talking about when he said that Hulk was red, but other than that it was interesting (by the way, wasn't Spider-Man's revealing of his secret identity retconned recently? I don't know).

I liked it too.

Although... DiB? Work out when the first episode of Heroes took place. Then work out when this episode took place. Did those events yet happen in the Marvel universe? In Heroes land, it's not the end of 2008. It's more like mid-2007 or so. Might be funny if actually, this is wrong. Maybe Hiro teleported to the future! :lol:

(Note - I'm nitpicking here for fun, this isn't a criticism.)

- Nathan once again proving why his character is about 100x more awesome than Peter just by virtue of the fact that he's not borderline mentally handicapped. His inherent distrust of his father was great, and added some much-needed tension, especially knowing that Arthur isn't above killing his son; for a moment there, I half expected Arthur to finish the job. It was a great scene.

Nathan is like Parkman, except his character is actually interesting, so the actor puts him over the top. These two, plus Hiro, are the reasons to watch this show, in my opinion. Sylar used to be, as did HRG, but not anymore.

Something else - I hate Claire being the One. Because I can't stand Claire. I think Maya would've been - oop! Season 2 reference! Never happened. *forgets* Kaito would've been cool too. Or Munroe. Or anyone but Claire. At least it didn't turn out to be Peter.

Gold star bonus for the writers though: Who gave Claire over to HRG to protect?

Kaito Nakamura.

Good continuity and well done to them.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

Maya was a bull**** character, and I'm glad she's gone... Why on earth would she have been a decent choice for being "The One"?

You know what I think I've decided? Season Two had good ideas that followed what the series was supposed to be (except some things that were just utter bull****), but overall the problem wasn't that characters weren't acting in character or the plot seemed too forced, it just was kind of boring and mediocre in comparison to season one. Hiro's subplot went on three times longer than it should have. They waited half the season to reveal what the real problem was... The series bogged itself down with too many new characters too quickly... The spirit of the show was intact, but the focus was off entirely.

Season Three is fun to watch. I really think it is... I enjoy watching it episode to episode... The trouble isn't when I watch it, but rather when I think about it later, and things don't really fit or make sense, and the overall plotting is bull****, but the scenes within the bull**** plot are still more engaging than those in season two (with many obvious exceptions)... I think they figured out how the focus the show the way they did season one, making it fun and engaging, but now they've lost the spirit of the show and more unfortunately, the humanity behind these characters.

It's like X-Men 3... I walked out of the theater energized, thinking it was awesome. As we walked to the car afterwards talking about it, the little problems became bigger. By the time we reached the diner, it became clear how terrible it was as a movie.

(that said, I still like the redemption of Sylar subplot, and I don't think its as far off as you guys are putting it. Plus the bad sides of both Elle and Sylar will have a chance to come out, they might want to kill people, but they'll hurt people with relish. I don't know. Its probably just what I was saying earlier, but even if it shouldn't have happened, Zachary Quinto and Kristen Bell are good enough actors to pull it off, at least to me)

 

[Bass]

Maya was a bull**** character, and I'm glad she's gone... Why on earth would she have been a decent choice for being "The One"?

The whole, "she has enough power in her to kill the Devil" thing. She was obviously tied to the Shanthi virus, but when that got nixed, it might've been possible to give her a purpose by making her the catalyst.

At least that way, it wouldn't just be a Petrelli, AGAIN. (There are six of them! Enough with Petrelli being the key on which the plot turns.)

You know what I think I've decided? Season Two had good ideas that followed what the series was supposed to be (except some things that were just utter bull****), but overall the problem wasn't that characters weren't acting in character or the plot seemed too forced, it just was kind of boring and mediocre in comparison to season one.

See, I think here, the characters are far, far more inconsistent than before, and the plot is ludicrously contrived with characters continually doing things that just beggar further questions. I think the difference here is that you don't notice the inconsistencies because they've just ramped up the kinesis of the show, artificially - people talk about how bad things are and how awful things will be, but if you look, very little has happened. The major thing that's happened is the answer to who shot Nathan Petrelli - and that was in the first episode. In fact, stuff happened in the first episode, but nothing qualitative has happened for about three weeks. In fact, I think the plot is still where it was in episode 6.

Season 3 I think is far, far worse to season 2. Season 2 had four problems: Maya (and Sylar), Peter, West, and the New Orleans girl. But Hiro, HRG, Parkman, and Nathan, all had plot lines that actually really mattered and went somewhere. Hiro and HRG in particular. And Hiro's story wasn't too long. The problem was that there were three plot lines that took up a lot of the episode that weren't any good. If I edited season 2 so Maya, Peter, and the New Orleans chick weren't in it, the Kensei storyline is barely two episodes. And HRG's plot was ****ing brilliant. In other words, the problems were the new characters (and Peter).

To really get what I mean... Episode 9 of the first season was "Homecoming", the episode that made me fall in love with Heroes. In this episode, Sylar and Peter have their first confrontation, future Hiro's maxim "Save the cheerleader, save the world" is resolved (in part), and Sylar is finally captured. Huge payoffs to the previous 8 episodes.

In season 2, episode 9 was "Cautionary Tales", the episode that had me cheering for Heroes. In this episode, the entire plot line of Bennet's future in Isaac's paintings is resolved, as is Claire and West's relationship, Suresh and Bennet's entire attempt to bring down the Company fails, and it's revealed that Adam Munroe is the Company killer. Huge payoffs to the previous 8 episodes.

In season 3, episode 9 is "It's Coming". Elle and Sylar become friends. Daphne and Parkman fall in love. That is all.

Angela Petrelli doesn't count. She's in the same position she was before she got coma'd. No progression. Nathan knew his dad was alive a couple episodes ago. Out of the blue, we get a set up that the eclipse is coming, whatever that means. And Hiro, who knew how to solve the plot, is suffering from amnesia.

I'm so disappointed in this show right now.

EDIT - Just saw the preview.

Spoiler

The eclipse takes all their powers. Oh, for ****'s sake, really? REALLY? So the big superhero fight will actually be resolved by people punching each other? Didn't we already do the 'they lose their powers' schtick in season 2? And I bet Daphne's 'secret' is Arthur gave her powers and they stop her from being fat. And so, she'll lose her powers and her super metabolism and become fat and I will laugh at how selfish she is.

They lose their powers. And there's a guy searching for a formula who gives people powers. Oh, how it's all connected.

I think I might just give up on Heroes, like I did with Galactica.

 

[DIrishB]

And were they trying to mimick the effect from Watchmen when Mr. Manhatten first starts to get his powers?

I was thinking the same thing.

Although... DiB? Work out when the first episode of Heroes took place. Then work out when this episode took place. Did those events yet happen in the Marvel universe? In Heroes land, it's not the end of 2008. It's more like mid-2007 or so. Might be funny if actually, this is wrong. Maybe Hiro teleported to the future! :lol:

First season of Heroes occurred during October, 2006. Season 2 took place in March, 2007, and Season 3 continued immediately on from Season 2, so in terms of the timeline, its late March, 2007 in the Heroes universe.

So yeah, bit of a continuity gaffe, but it could easily be argued the comics of our modern world happened 18 months earlier in the Heroes verse. Of course, that'd just be over-thinking it. But thats what I do. And I'm the best at it.

Gold star bonus for the writers though: Who gave Claire over to HRG to protect?

Kaito Nakamura.

Good continuity and well done to them.

Good point, I didn't even put those two points together.