Heroes Season 3 (Spoilers)

What I find amusing is that we don't know what Loeb did for/to Heroes, yet we're happy simply because in our heads this reads as, "Loeb got fired from Heroes because Ultimates 3 was crap."
 
True... but we also know he writes a lot of this stuff. We still have his writing for the rest of the season including the fall finale before the break.
 
It's crazy Loeb is regarded as such a crap writer with Ultimates 3 and this..... Long Halloween was so damn good, and Dark Victory was even better until the pointless and they-dumbed-the-characters-down-in-order-for-him-to-be-useful intro of Robin.
 
Bass said:
What I find amusing is that we don't know what Loeb did for/to Heroes, yet we're happy simply because in our heads this reads as, "Loeb got fired from Heroes because Ultimates 3 was crap."
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Most (all?) of the episodes tell who wrote them in the beginning credits.

And without looking I believe Wikipedia does. The AICN article told a couple of them.
 
Planet-man said:
It's crazy Loeb is regarded as such a crap writer with Ultimates 3 and this..... Long Halloween was so damn good, and Dark Victory was even better until the pointless and they-dumbed-the-characters-down-in-order-for-him-to-be-useful intro of Robin.
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I like the intro of Robin... But anyways... Loeb hasn't written anything vaguely good since Batman: Hush (which, as I said, was only VAGUELY good). Ultimates 3 was painfully bad. Ultimate Power was painfully bad. The Hulk comic is painfully bad. His work on Wolverine was painfully bad.

Those are his most recent contributions to comics, and they all reek of bad writing. I think its fairer to judge an artists contemporary work with itself, rather than with their past work.
 
E said:
Most (all?) of the episodes tell who wrote them in the beginning credits.

And without looking I believe Wikipedia does. The AICN article told a couple of them.
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Except... the screenplay and teleplay credits don't always reflect the PROCESS. Jeph Loeb is a producer on Heroes. A lot of high-up writers in tv shows get a producer credit to get more cash and what not without actually having to write an entire script. Star Trek: Enterprise had 14 producers at one point, which is a preposterous amount. Jeph Loeb's credited as a producer, which doesn't really explain just what role he played in Heroes. For example, he might have said, "Make Sylar a Petrelli" or he might have said "Don't make Sylar a Petrelli, it's damned stupid". I don't know which and my point is that we're happy because his Ultimates 3 was ****, not because his work on Heroes was **** because we simply don't really know what his work on Heroes was.
 
I doubt Heroes is going to drastically improve with him gone.
 
Dr.Strangefate said:
I like the intro of Robin...
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HE WAS ONLY USEFUL BECAUSE
BATMAN INEXPLICABLY LEFT A RANDOM SEWER TUNNEL'S ENTRANCE INTO THE BATCAVE COMPLETELY UNSECURED FOR NO REASON AND THEN WAS SHOCKED WHEN VILLAINS FOUND IT DESPITE THE ENTIRE STORY REVOLVING AROUND VILLIANS SECRETLY USING THE SEWERS TO COORDINATE!

AND THE BRIGHT YELLOW CAPE MADE NO SENSE AND THERE'S NO WAY THAT SPECIFIC VERSION OF BATMAN EVER WOULD HAVE HAD HIM USE IT. JUST BECAUSE DICK WAS UPSET ABOUT THE DEATH OF HIS PARENTS DOES NOT MAKE HIM A 'DARK' CHARACTER IF HE'S STILL A WISE-CRACKING LITTLE PRE-PUBESCENT **** WHO COULD NEVER, EVER PUT UP A FIGHT AGAINST THE HARDENED, MOBSTER-KILLING PSYCHOPATHS THE STORY HAD WORKED SO HARD TO ESTABLISH.

But I digress....

But anyways... Loeb hasn't written anything vaguely good since Batman: Hush (which, as I said, was only VAGUELY good).
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Forgot he wrote that, that was probably the first thing of his I read. I really liked Hush, but now come to think of it, it totally makes sense that the same guy who wrote that off-the-wall web of character collisions in a complex conspiracy was writing for Heroes over the past two years. TV's such a slippery and manic medium, twice as much with an ensemble cast and thrice as much with a science fiction show and four times as much with one that involves time travel as a regular aspect that it's easy to see what happened.

Those are his most recent contributions to comics, and they all reek of bad writing. I think its fairer to judge an artists contemporary work with itself, rather than with their past work.
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Oh, certainly. I was just always surprised when I joined the world of online superhero discussion and found out that it was thought of as a given that he was widely loathed when he wrote some of the most popular and essential stories I'd read or been reading about.
 
Bass said:
Except... the screenplay and teleplay credits don't always reflect the PROCESS. Jeph Loeb is a producer on Heroes. A lot of high-up writers in tv shows get a producer credit to get more cash and what not without actually having to write an entire script. Star Trek: Enterprise had 14 producers at one point, which is a preposterous amount. Jeph Loeb's credited as a producer, which doesn't really explain just what role he played in Heroes. For example, he might have said, "Make Sylar a Petrelli" or he might have said "Don't make Sylar a Petrelli, it's damned stupid". I don't know which and my point is that we're happy because his Ultimates 3 was ****, not because his work on Heroes was **** because we simply don't really know what his work on Heroes was.
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Here's the thing, no matter how little he did, it's a plus
 
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Loeb is gone - it's a wonderful thing. And to paraphrase Random in my own special way: Even if Loeb was a benign mole on the back-end of Heroes, his departure can only help if only on a cosmetic level.

As far as how much it will help a show? I firmly believe he had a hand in letting the Fonz go down the ramp . . . so I can't say. But Heroes has been pretty much written by idiots since it's inception. I call it LOST for dumb people. Surface, the show on the year before Heroes started - was better. Better written. Better mythology.

And surprisingly, Loeb's name wasn't involved in it. Bonus for Lake Bell. And I believe it was the first time we introduced to a certain cheerleader . . .
 
leather_w0lf said:
Loeb is gone - it's a wonderful thing. And to paraphrase Random in my own special way: Even if Loeb was a benign mole on the back-end of Heroes, his departure can only help if only on a cosmetic level.

As far as how much it will help a show? I firmly believe he had a hand in letting the Fonz go down the ramp . . . so I can't say. But Heroes has been pretty much written by idiots since it's inception. I call it LOST for dumb people. Surface, the show on the year before Heroes started - was better. Better written. Better mythology.

And surprisingly, Loeb's name wasn't involved in it. Bonus for Lake Bell. And I believe it was the first time we introduced to a certain cheerleader . . .
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If only Joe Q at Marvel would follow that lead. Perhaps the UU could be saved.
 
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No, no. This show isn't Lost for dumb people. This show might've been able to reach Lost in terms of enjoyment, etc. in it's first season, but not now. Not ever again... This show is stupid. Period.
 
The Rumors of Brian Fuller coming back to replace Loeb are making me extremely happy. He's said he'd do it when/if Pushing Daisies gets cancelled (which is apparently almost a definite). Fuller wrote "Company Man" in the first season, and is the guy who came up with Dead Like Me (one of my all-time favorites).

Let's all cross our fingers.
 
Dr.Strangefate said:
The Rumors of Brian Fuller coming back to replace Loeb are making me extremely happy. He's said he'd do it when/if Pushing Daisies gets cancelled (which is apparently almost a definite). Fuller wrote "Company Man" in the first season, and is the guy who came up with Dead Like Me (one of my all-time favorites).

Let's all cross our fingers.
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No! Do not cross fingers! "Heroes" is beyond saving! "Pushing Daisies" is the best show currently on TV! Blargh!
 
I think tonight's episode proved that Loeb and Alexander are behind the ****tiness of Heroes this season. Since it took place around season one, filling in the gaps, and not in the ridiculous driving plot of this story arc, it actually had a chance to show off some of the good things about the show... This show still has some great writers, but the series was being plotted by people who had no idea how to write the show.

Plus the Real Linderman = Wonderful. I hope Loeb managed a sucktastic revival before he got booted, because I want Malcolm McDowell as a permanent fixture on this show.

Also: I forgot how awesome evil!sylar can be... More episodes should go into the past like this... And surprise of the century, Meredith is actually a pretty great character if used correctly. I just... I had forgotten how good this show could be when they try.

They need to get Elle back in the Company, with Angela Petrelli running it with Linderman. They need to make Noah Bennett kick *** again. The next storyline should NOT be a "we need to save the world" storyline. Take the focus off of some of the old guard... Give characters like Daphne room to thrive. Slow things down once and a while. Think back to the episode "Company Man" for the best this show can do. Bring in more humans to offset the outrageous number of powered people in this show (made more outrageous by the certainty that Ando will be powered in the next five episodes). Hell, depower Hiro for a season, show that he's a hero even without his abilities, and simultaneously get rid of the way too ****ing numerous futures this show has. Cut out Claire's family (aside from Noah), and really push her to do something interesting. Get rid of Nikki/Tracy entirely. Get rid of Mohinder entirely (unless they depower him and put him in a labcoat).

I do think there's enough here to save Heroes. Hopefully, if not Fuller, they get somebody who can make this show amazing.

On the other hand, I cannot ****ing believe they killed The African.
 
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