Daredevil series discussion (spoilers)

Joe Kalicki said:
Well, Kingpin did say he was going to get out and make Matt suffer, or get revenge on him or something. Then Matt gave a speech about honoring Vanessa or blah blah blah, but Kingpin never renegged on punishing Matt. He probably still really, really wants to.
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No, perhaps not, but if revenge was Kingpin's top priority, why would have given up his citizenship? It would be far easier to get revenge on Matt if he was living in the US as opposed to Europe. Besides Matt mentioned that he was able to convince Fisk to give up his citizenship, why would Fisk do that for Matt if he wanted revenge on him?
 
The Overlord said:
No, perhaps not, but if revenge was Kingpin's top priority, why would have given up his citizenship? It would be far easier to get revenge on Matt if he was living in the US as opposed to Europe. Besides Matt mentioned that he was able to convince Fisk to give up his citizenship, why would Fisk do that for Matt if he wanted revenge on him?
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Maybe he "convinced" him by making it a condition of his release. Who knows? We didn't see everything.

I think he was crying at Vanessa's grave because he was going to betray her again by going after Matt no matter what.
 
Joe Kalicki said:
Well, Kingpin did say he was going to get out and make Matt suffer, or get revenge on him or something. Then Matt gave a speech about honoring Vanessa or blah blah blah, but Kingpin never renegged on punishing Matt. He probably still really, really wants to.
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This is very true.

The Overlord said:
No, perhaps not, but if revenge was Kingpin's top priority, why would have given up his citizenship? It would be far easier to get revenge on Matt if he was living in the US as opposed to Europe. Besides Matt mentioned that he was able to convince Fisk to give up his citizenship, why would Fisk do that for Matt if he wanted revenge on him?
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His resources are pretty vast. And difficulty has hardly kept him from doing something he's really wanted to do in the past.
 
E said:
This is very true.



His resources are pretty vast. And difficulty has hardly kept him from doing something he's really wanted to do in the past.
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His resources were pretty vast, as in past tense. Most his money, clout and allies are gone at this point.

Joe Kalicki said:
Maybe he "convinced" him by making it a condition of his release. Who knows? We didn't see everything.

I think he was crying at Vanessa's grave because he was going to betray her again by going after Matt no matter what.
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That doesn't make sense. Wilson would never betray Vanessa, Wilson has always loved Vanessa and was willing to do anything for her. Wilson crying at her grave because she is dead makes way more sense.
 
The Overlord said:
His resources were pretty vast, as in past tense. Most his money, clout and allies are gone at this point.
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I seem to remember him rebuilding from nothing at least a couple times.
 
The Overlord said:
That doesn't make sense. Wilson would never betray Vanessa, Wilson has always loved Vanessa and was willing to do anything for her. Wilson crying at her grave because she is dead makes way more sense.
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Just because he loves her doesn't mean he wouldn't betray her. In fact, his plans to betray her seem like they'd be even more responsible for his crying than simply missing her.
 
Joe Kalicki said:
Just because he loves her doesn't mean he wouldn't betray her. In fact, his plans to betray her seem like they'd be even more responsible for his crying than simply missing her.
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No betraying her would be out of character, if Kingpin had one weakness its that he would do anything to please his wife and would never hurt her. Kingpin quit crime and spared Spider-Man's life just please her. Wilson would never hurt Vanessa, ever.

What some people on this thread don't seem to get, is that Kingpin is not pure evil. He did care about others besides himself, namely his wife and son. With them dead, what's the point of his criminal career? He has lost everything that truly matters to him and that's gong to throw him for a loop. Now either Wilson will simplely quit and leave his life as the Kingpin behind him or he will be consumed by hate and blame dD for all his losses. But the fact remains it will take time for Wilson to reach that decision and deal with how much he has lost in recent times.
 
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I just read the issue and Overlord where do you even get Kingpin being out of the picture? His citizenship's revoked? So what? He's crying over his wife's grave. So what? I think you take your speculations and mix them with the events so much that you think it's reality.

For those of you reading this thread but not the issue don't let Overlord confuse you. Wilson Fisk doesn't stop being the Kingpin. He probably won't be the central villain for a bit but he even states in the issue that he's going after Matt if Matt gets him out of jail. One of the best parts of the issue.

This issue was perfect. I'm looking forward to Danny Rand closure though also. I not too thrilled about Lily as I feel her purpose is over but I'm curious enough to see her coming back...

5/5
 
TheManWithoutFear said:
I just read the issue and Overlord where do you even get Kingpin being out of the picture? His citizenship's revoked? So what? He's crying over his wife's grave. So what? I think you take your speculations and mix them with the events so much that you think it's reality.

For those of you reading this thread but not the issue don't let Overlord confuse you. Wilson Fisk doesn't stop being the Kingpin. He probably won't be the central villain for a bit but he even states in the issue that he's going after Matt if Matt gets him out of jail. One of the best parts of the issue.

This issue was perfect. I'm looking forward to Danny Rand closure though also. I not too thrilled about Lily as I feel her purpose is over but I'm curious enough to see her coming back...

5/5
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Fisk is out of the picture for the time being, if he truly wanted revenge on Matt right away he wouldn't have revoked his citizenship. Fisk's vow of revenge was before Matt's talked to him about Vanessa. At the end of the issue Matt reflects that Vanessa's death will have changed Wilson, whether its for better or for worse remains to be seen. I think Wilson left the country to do some soul searching, because an event like Vanessa's death will change the character and Wilson will have to deal with that, before he can deal with Matt.
 
The Overlord said:
Fisk is out of the picture for the time being, if he truly wanted revenge on Matt right away he wouldn't have revoked his citizenship. Fisk's vow of revenge was before Matt's talked to him about Vanessa. At the end of the issue Matt reflects that Vanessa's death will have changed Wilson, whether its for better or for worse remains to be seen. I think Wilson left the country to do some soul searching, because an event like Vanessa's death will change the character and Wilson will have to deal with that, before he can deal with Matt.
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Soul Searching... right. Going back to your original statement about Fisk being completely broken, I just think it's too much. I doubt he's anymore broken than when he heard Vanessa plugged Richard. But we can all agree he's out of the picture for the time being and, probably to your satisfaction Overlord, some old DD rogues will appear soon.
 
I haven't read the issue yet...probably will by the end of the week, via bittorent or otherwise. I would assume that it's good because of MWF's 5/5...but he seems to give most DD issues similar ratings.
 
I agree with MwoF. There's no reason to think he won't be going back to his Kingpin-erific ways.

I don't even get how this has turned into an argument.
 
Wade_Wilson said:
I haven't read the issue yet...probably will by the end of the week, via bittorent or otherwise. I would assume that it's good because of MWF's 5/5...but he seems to give most DD issues similar ratings.
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I give 4's sometimes. But seriously name one issue since I started reading DD about 2 years ago that hasn't been awesome. Bendis run, Father, Redemption, Brubakers run so far, the only thing would possibly be DD vs. Punisher. That was enjoyable but not up to standard. Everything DD's touched has been gold and it's good to be a fan for this era.
 
TheManWithoutFear said:
Soul Searching... right. Going back to your original statement about Fisk being completely broken, I just think it's too much. I doubt he's anymore broken than when he heard Vanessa plugged Richard. But we can all agree he's out of the picture for the time being and, probably to your satisfaction Overlord, some old DD rogues will appear soon.
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What was Fisk motive for staying a criminal? Saying "He's the Kingpin" over and over again isn't a real answer. The answer is because he was sucessful at it, he wasn't a fool in a bad costume who knocked over banks and got caught by a super hero the next day and he isn't some lone psycho who babbles to himself in a warehouse. He wasn't insane or stupid or had some ideological purpose, he was merely a cunning man who has able to generate alot of money through illegal means and the law couldn't touch him.

Fisk was one of the few villains in MU who had a life outside of his criminal career, he had a family, a wife and a son who meant everything to him, far more to him than mere money ever did. Back in ASM# 83 Kingpin went into a catonic state when he discover that his son was trying to overthrow him and he left crime and spared Spider-Man's life in ASM# 197 at his wife's request. Wilson has always cared more about his family then his criminal career, but now his family and Kingpin know's his actions are somewhat responsible for both their deaths. As Matt reflected at the end of the issue that would have an effect Kingpin and will likely change him (whether it was for better or for worse remains to be seen). Matt would not have released Kingpin if he didn't think Vanessa death's wouldn't change him.
 
TheManWithoutFear said:
I give 4's sometimes. But seriously name one issue since I started reading DD about 2 years ago that hasn't been awesome. Bendis run, Father, Redemption, Brubakers run so far, the only thing would possibly be DD vs. Punisher. That was enjoyable but not up to standard. Everything DD's touched has been gold and it's good to be a fan for this era.
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I'm not arguing with you...because you're totally right. DD is defiantly my favorite book that Marvel's currently publishing...and it has been for awhile.

Now, if I could just forget that Ben Afflack existed...
 
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