Captain America Movie

[Void.M]

Captain America ≠ X-Men

First, Hydra should be the analog for Nazis in all Marvel movies. I've said before, the MU as a whole has men who would have eaten people like Hitler for breakfast. I know many people who're new to comics and say the exact same thing "How in the hell is Red Skull following such an inept troll like Hitler?". Secondly, at no point has Marvel said there are no Nazis in Captain America, they're just focusing on Hydra.

Yeah, HYDRA is like a black ops division. Also, i'd bet Red Skull has his own Agenda and will probably plan on overthrowing his boss.

 

[Bass]

New trailer.

I am exceedingly impressed with the 90lb version of Chris Evans. Also, it is shaping up to be awesome.... before he becomes Cap, that is. Then it becomes a bad-lib of RAIDERS, STAR TREK, and LXG. I'm hoping it'll be like THOR and IRON MAN; horrendously predictable but you don't care because the hero is so very very entertaining you can't help but fall in love with the movie.

That said, I love that they realise he's 'the guy' because he jumps on a grenade selflessly. Super awesome moment.

I do hate that in the same trailer we have a "I don't think I can do this" scene. Self-doubt is not in this movie's Cap's vocabulary. This is a guy who we a shown, repeatedly, never gives up, assumes he is the man for the job, is totally selfless and heroic, and indeed, it's these qualities as to WHY he is made into Cap... and he has a self-doubt scene?

I swear, screenwriting software needs not just a spellchecker, but a cliche-checker and the occasional, "DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHO YOUR CHARACTERS ARE?!" error message.

 

[Gothamite]

Is anyone else a bit irritated by the fact that Tommy Lee Jones is playing a different character in this, when Norman Osborn was drawn with his likeness for a while there in New Avengers?

Huh?

It's been pointed out dozens of times online and in letters pages in the UK reprints.

I have no idea what that is from. Take me back to the beginning.

Was it that hard to follow?

 

[J. Agamemnon]

New trailer.

I am exceedingly impressed with the 90lb version of Chris Evans. Also, it is shaping up to be awesome.... before he becomes Cap, that is. Then it becomes a bad-lib of RAIDERS, STAR TREK, and LXG. I'm hoping it'll be like THOR and IRON MAN; horrendously predictable but you don't care because the hero is so very very entertaining you can't help but fall in love with the movie.

That said, I love that they realise he's 'the guy' because he jumps on a grenade selflessly. Super awesome moment.

I do hate that in the same trailer we have a "I don't think I can do this" scene. Self-doubt is not in this movie's Cap's vocabulary. This is a guy who we a shown, repeatedly, never gives up, assumes he is the man for the job, is totally selfless and heroic, and indeed, it's these qualities as to WHY he is made into Cap... and he has a self-doubt scene?

I swear, screenwriting software needs not just a spellchecker, but a cliche-checker and the occasional, "DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHO YOUR CHARACTERS ARE?!" error message.

If he lacks any doubt, he no longer becomes humanistic. Arguably he becomes unrelatable to the viewer. And characteristically, flawed characters are what set Marvel apart from DC. I mean, there has to be a point where he says to himself, "What am I doing here?"

 

[Random]

That said, I love that they realise he's 'the guy' because he jumps on a grenade selflessly. Super awesome moment.

I know, perfect.

I do hate that in the same trailer we have a "I don't think I can do this" scene. Self-doubt is not in this movie's Cap's vocabulary. This is a guy who we a shown, repeatedly, never gives up, assumes he is the man for the job, is totally selfless and heroic, and indeed, it's these qualities as to WHY he is made into Cap... and he has a self-doubt scene?

I swear, screenwriting software needs not just a spellchecker, but a cliche-checker and the occasional, "DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHO YOUR CHARACTERS ARE?!" error message.

I disagree, there's is definitely that moment of doubt for Cap when he goes from soldier to super soldier. He just want to do his part in the fight but suddenly he's the one everyone looks up to which is a burden he wouldn't feel ready for. Cap has always been reluctant when getting that kind of praise and power, he's constantly unsure of himself when it comes to that.

 

[Bass]

Was it that hard to follow?

I have no idea what that panel is of or from. I know it's Tommy Lee Jones. That is all. CONTEXT, baby!

If he lacks any doubt, he no longer becomes humanistic. Arguably he becomes unrelatable to the viewer. And characteristically, flawed characters are what set Marvel apart from DC. I mean, there has to be a point where he says to himself, "What am I doing here?"

Nonsense. Indy isn't unrelatable. Luke isn't. Luke is a farmboy who takes on an empire, and never goes, "Maybe I'm not good enough." All Hal does in GREEN LANTERN (apparently) is endlessly whine about how maybe he's not awesome, and everyone is complaining about it. In HEROES, the reason Hiro was the most popular character is because he was the only one who didn't go, "Maybe I'm not good enough."

Self-doubt is a perfectly valid character trait, but it in no way is required to give the audience relatable protagonists. In fact, if anything, it pushes people away because the response of self-doubt is so out of character and so unreasonable the audience cannot relate because they go, "If I had a magic wishing ring that could do anything, I wouldn't get emo about it."

I know, perfect.

It is a brilliant, brilliant, idea and scene. I don't know if they took it from the comics or not, but it is a brilliant summation of his character. I applaud!

I disagree, there's is definitely that moment of doubt for Cap when he goes from soldier to super soldier. He just want to do his part in the fight but suddenly he's the one everyone looks up to which is a burden he wouldn't feel ready for. Cap has always been reluctant when getting that kind of praise and power, he's constantly unsure of himself when it comes to that.

It is certainly possible to make the self-doubt somewhat in character if all his bravery earlier is just bravado or indeed, a form of suicide; he's looking to go out in a blaze of glory. Indeed, if his bravery is just a mask, when he becomes Cap it could indeed shake that mask away. However, a man who voluntarily, without hesitation, jumps onto an exploding grenade, proves, unequivocally, that he is a man who doesn't question himself when death is on the line. That's who he is. Having him have a crisis of faith is a cliche designed to make him "more human" by giving him a weakness, which is completely idiotic because that's why he starts off as a bulllied, 90lb weakling. He's already weak. You relate to him at the beginning and follow him on.

Now... I may turn out to be wrong. As I said, it's possible to make the self-doubt by of his psychology. It's also possible that what makes Cap interesting is the jumping on the grenade (which is one of the best Cap moments I've ever seen). If you didn't care for Cap before, you do after that, and it might be because he is Brave but Weak. And when he becomes Cap he's no longer Weak. So he might actually become less interesting and need something. And maybe self-doubt will work. I think, based on the trailers it doesn't, and something else would make more sense (like survivor's guilt expressed with how people with such a condition actually act), and yet I think the real key would just be upping the antagonism, which the Red Skull might do.

We'll see.

 

[Jaggyd]

Yeah, HYDRA is like a black ops division. Also, i'd bet Red Skull has his own Agenda and will probably plan on overthrowing his boss.

In case people missed it in the new full trailer. VM is right, "HYDRA is a Nazi Deep Science Division".


Plus.... they used Tool's Forty Six & Two in the trailer. So awesome.

 

[J. Agamemnon]

Nonsense. Indy isn't unrelatable. Luke isn't. Luke is a farmboy who takes on an empire, and never goes, "Maybe I'm not good enough." All Hal does in GREEN LANTERN (apparently) is endlessly whine about how maybe he's not awesome, and everyone is complaining about it. In HEROES, the reason Hiro was the most popular character is because he was the only one who didn't go, "Maybe I'm not good enough."

Self-doubt is a perfectly valid character trait, but it in no way is required to give the audience relatable protagonists. In fact, if anything, it pushes people away because the response of self-doubt is so out of character and so unreasonable the audience cannot relate because they go, "If I had a magic wishing ring that could do anything, I wouldn't get emo about it."

I think for Captain America, an already established hero in a different medium of entertainment opposed to your examples, it's a must have. And it certainly may not be required, but I don't see how it completely hurts Cap to have some self-doubt when the complete faith of a country is at your hands when just days ago, you were a pipsqueek, polio kid from Brooklyn. And that's what my point was with Marvel; their characters have always been grounded in reality to some extent and have always retained a sense of relate-ability. Cap has always been my favorite for many reasons, mainly for his internal struggles and how he copes with his troubles. As random said it best, his reluctance to grasp praise and power is what humanizes him most.

one of his more remarkable moments for me was during Secret Wars. They find a machine that pretty much grants what's on your mind. It's how Spider-Man receives his venom suit if I'm not mistaken. At this point in the story Cap's indestructible shield is broken and instead of asking for a new or better one, he puts the broken one on the pedestal and has it transmuted back to it's original form. It shows his sentimental side in such a simple and powerful way. Without making this post any more unreadable, I don't think self-doubt is necessary for any protagonist, but I don't see why you're completely against Cap showing it.

 

[E]

I disagree, there's is definitely that moment of doubt for Cap when he goes from soldier to super soldier. He just want to do his part in the fight but suddenly he's the one everyone looks up to which is a burden he wouldn't feel ready for. Cap has always been reluctant when getting that kind of praise and power, he's constantly unsure of himself when it comes to that.

Yeah, it's very much a recurring theme in the comic. Even Ultimates touched on this.

 

[Bass]

Without making this post any more unreadable, I don't think self-doubt is necessary for any protagonist, but I don't see why you're completely against Cap showing it.

I'm not completely against it. I've expressed how it could possibly work. I just think it's a stupid idea, currently, for two reasons: It is inappropriate for Cap since he routinely shows he has no hesitation in his capabilities and it is his quality for self-determination and bravery that allows him to become Cap in the first place, and, it is a terrible cliche.

Yeah, it's very much a recurring theme in the comic. Even Ultimates touched on this.

Once he was in the 21st century. Where he felt obsolete and out-of-touch. The moment in the trailer is happening in WW2.

 

[Jaggyd]

I'm not completely against it. I've expressed how it could possibly work. I just think it's a stupid idea, currently, for two reasons: It is inappropriate for Cap since he routinely shows he has no hesitation in his capabilities and it is his quality for self-determination and bravery that allows him to become Cap in the first place, and, it is a terrible cliche.



Once he was in the 21st century. Where he felt obsolete and out-of-touch. The moment in the trailer is happening in WW2.

It's easy to be brave, when your friends and people who trust you, aren't dying around you.

 

[Bass]

Good idea. The horror of war causing him to doubt himself.

But this is a kid's movie. I seriously doubt WW2 will be anything other than a theme park ride.

An awesome, super fun, exciting ride I'm happy to watch, but a theme park ride.

I could be wrong.

 

[J. Agamemnon]

While self-determination and bravery certainly help, I think the experience is ultimately what makes Cap, Cap. It's why everyone looks up to him. The guy's been through the ringer and then some. We're seeing early Cap; the one that is supposed to make mistakes, and be doubtful like ALL young people. We're not seeing the Cap of the sixties to this generation. We're seeign the guy that fought through and trailblazed through one of the worst and all-encompassing wars in fictional(and real) human history. Frankly, it's a little naive to think he wouldn't have some doubt.

 

[Jaggyd]

Good idea. The horror of war causing him to doubt himself.

But this is a kid's movie. I seriously doubt WW2 will be anything other than a theme park ride.

An awesome, super fun, exciting ride I'm happy to watch, but a theme park ride.

I could be wrong.

Well, at minimum, Dr Reinstein, the Saboteur, and Bucky all die on screen, I wouldn't necessarily call this a "kid's movie".

 

[mike3717]

Plus.... they used Tool's Forty Six & Two in the trailer. So awesome.

It really was.

 

[Bass]

Well, at minimum, Dr Reinstein, the Saboteur, and Bucky all die on screen, I wouldn't necessarily call this a "kid's movie".

But it'll hardly be BAND OF BROTHERS or THE HURT LOCKER.

We'll see.

 

[bluebeast]

But it'll hardly be BAND OF BROTHERS or THE HURT LOCKER.

We'll see.

X-Men First Class had like a solid ten minutes of concentration camp in the beginning and I think they're going to be pretty similar tonally.

Also in response to your earlier post; Luke complains in like the entire trilogy.

 

[ProjectX2]

Now I'm just going to be annoyed that Captain America isn't more like Band of Brothers.

 

[Bass]

X-Men First Class had like a solid ten minutes of concentration camp in the beginning and I think they're going to be pretty similar tonally.

Also in response to your earlier post; Luke complains in like the entire trilogy.

He doesn't complain that he's not good enough. He's very confident in his abilities.

Now I'm just going to be annoyed that Captain America isn't more like Band of Brothers.

Me too.

 

[The Overlord]

But it'll hardly be BAND OF BROTHERS or THE HURT LOCKER.

We'll see.

No, it will be more like Indiana Jones, but there is nothing wrong with that. For Cap to be Band of brothers, it would have to be rated R and that's just not going to happen with a franchise like this. If the film was rated R, it wouldn't do as well.