Gideon Stargrave
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Mavericker, some women in real life are sexualized too. It depend on who's writing and drawing the comic. Some in every single female archetype are sexualized.
Women in comics
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Mavericker, some women in real life are sexualized too. It depend on who's writing and drawing the comic. Some in every single female archetype are sexualized.
TwilightEL
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Give me some examples, then.
Juuuuuust a bit
McCheese
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Yes please. Not trying to gang up, but I'm not following you here.
Indeed.
Mavericker
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Video game characters have appeared in comics, so I will post what I know:
The Major from GITS
Cammy and Sakura from Street Fighter
Lora Craft
Sakura is a TEENAGE character-they make her look like a naught little flirt.
I look at Sakura I'm tempted to think she's not wearing panties, or to think about her not wearing panties.
They draw attention to her red panties.
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Zombipanda
My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
hm.... I think one of the big problems is in the nature of combat. Fighting and sex tend to come from similar emotional places, and they're the two most physical interactions you can have with another person. I think a lot of writers don't know what to do with this, and they feel the need to sexualize the woman as a fighter. I don't think this is (typically) intentionally done, but I think it's one of the big problems that leads to how women are portrayed, and the kinds of costumes they tend to wear. I think a lot of people have a hard time visualizing women who are sweating, panting, and flailing their bodies into all sorts of contortions without thinking of sex, and sexualizing it from there.
As for the discussion of minorities - yeah, it's a little tangential, but I think it can be drawn into the main thread.
I think there's a similar trend in minority characters that's there with female characters. It feels like lots of times, when there's a black character, the writer feels like there's an obligation there to tell a story about racism. And we have a similar thing in popular "women's" stories. Lifetime specials and the like, which are supposed to focus on women's issues, have rape and sexual predation all over the place.
I guess my question is, in a medium where we're trying to tell more universal stories, is there still an obligation to fit these kind of persecution stories in? Are they necessary for writing a minority character, or do they ultimately only create conventional stereotypes that bog down the progression of these characters in mainstream comics?
Edit: Heh. We've already been talking about this. I guess I missed it.
As for the discussion of minorities - yeah, it's a little tangential, but I think it can be drawn into the main thread.
I think there's a similar trend in minority characters that's there with female characters. It feels like lots of times, when there's a black character, the writer feels like there's an obligation there to tell a story about racism. And we have a similar thing in popular "women's" stories. Lifetime specials and the like, which are supposed to focus on women's issues, have rape and sexual predation all over the place.
I guess my question is, in a medium where we're trying to tell more universal stories, is there still an obligation to fit these kind of persecution stories in? Are they necessary for writing a minority character, or do they ultimately only create conventional stereotypes that bog down the progression of these characters in mainstream comics?
Edit: Heh. We've already been talking about this. I guess I missed it.
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TwilightEL
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Street Fighter and Laura Croft are first and foremost video games.
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I'll try not to kill you for insulting the Major and Cammy.
I digress, what's wrong with strong women being sexual? I mean, it seems okay for men to be all sexed up and cads, but not true for chicks?
Plus, the Major is a great example of a badass heroine who's being a lesbian isn't what defines her as a character.
Gideon Stargrave
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How can her not wearing panties bother you so much, when, as you are aware, they constantly show flashes of her red underwear?
And are you kidding about Sakura being a flirt? Have you played the games? Have you read the comics? Sakura works very hard at being Ryu's disciple and seems to care more about winning hotdog eating contests (*ahem* no innuendo inteded) than boys. She's the least sexual character ever. Even if her underwear is shown every once and awhile, there's nothing sexual about her outfit; it's a typical, Japanese school uniform.
McCheese
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First of all at what point is she being a naughty little flirt? When she's doing her victory dance and her shoe flies off and hits her in the head or when she's fighting people? She's the opposite of a flirty character, she's a goofball parody of Ken and Ryu. She's meant to be funny.
As for what you're tempted to think, that sounds like a personal problem.
Gideon Stargrave
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Forget about Mavericker's politically incorrect dislike of lesbian characters, I'm still stuck on how a teenage martial artist with no curves is being over-sexualized.
Zombipanda
My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
I don't know. This is what I was trying to get at before. I think it's a philosophy that's hurt comic books for a long time... the idea that because a woman ends up displaying her body in any capacity (whether it's sexually, or otherwise), it's sexualization. Although, I don't think most people think a girl showing her panties when she kicks a guy in a jaw or being a lesbian somehow makes her sinful....
We're all sexual creatures. It's part of the process. Sex makes babies. Babies are good. The problem is to integrate this sexuality as one natural trait of the character, rather than the character's essence.
Exactly.
Gideon Stargrave
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As a huge Street Fighter fan, I'm both baffled and intruiged by Mavericker's odd lack of understanding of the characters.
You want to call Cammy a sex symbol? Fine. But Sakura...? I don't think so.
You want to call Cammy a sex symbol? Fine. But Sakura...? I don't think so.
TwilightEL
Well-Known Member
Well put.
I know you're not the one who brought it up, but you're more likely to listen, so please don't discuss video games here.
I'm sorry, it's not being unPC to hate someone just because who they love. That's being an ignorant douchebag. I mean, what if I started blanket stating crap like "I used to like Mavericker, until i found out he was a christian".
Zombipanda
My Boom-Boom's mostly gay
So, on a tangential point... When it comes to female characters (and for that matter, minority characters), is it necessary to tackle women's rights (or minority rights) issues in a mainstream comic book with agenda storytelling. Or does that only continue to continue this conception of women's comics and men's comics?
Gideon Stargrave
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Street Fighter is a comic AND a videogame.
No, I get where you're coming from. Mavericker is treading in some veery dangerous territory. He should really pick his next post carefully.
McCheese
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It is indeed.
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moonmaster
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Good point. I remember an interview with Frank Miller where he said that any kind of fight is inherently sexual and that the fight scenes he wrote between Daredevil and Elektra were metaphors for sex. Essentially, big fight scenes are just how superheroes have sex.
I don't know, I still love Susan B. Anthony-Man.
