Women in comics

[Joe Kalicki]

I'm sorry, Seldes (and DSF).

I just have a thing for girls in glasses (as anyone who remembers my Daria avatar can attest).

Also, I was kind of teasing Mavericker a little. I don't really care about his views on sexuality, but he's turned into a pretty okay guy, mostly, and figured he could take a little ribbing now.

 

[Mavericker]

I'm sorry, Seldes (and DSF).

I just have a thing for girls in glasses (as anyone who remembers my Daria avatar can attest).

Also, I was kind of teasing Mavericker a little. I don't really care about his views on sexuality, but he's turned into a pretty okay guy, mostly, and figured he could take a little ribbing now.

I was going to answer your question-but I was concerned about being infracted.

 

[TwilightEL]

Women are evil scary monsters (except Seldes).

Thass all I have to say.

I'm so evil a mod thinks I'm scary. 8)

I was reading PvP the other day and on the inside cover of the issue, I noticed that Marcy and Jade (the two most major female characters) are described as "the gamer girl" and "the babe". None of the guys have a gender-specific role. It reminded me of the Smurfs and how I'd heard a theory that the female Smurf was the only female because that was her role. There was the smart one, the old one, the funny one etc and she was "the female one". Does anyone have any strong thoughts or opinions on this? I'm not trying to insinuate that PvP is misogynistic or sexist, I'm just wondering what you think about gender-specific roles (or roles being seen as gender-specific).

 

[Joe Kalicki]

Smurfette was created by Gargamel to infiltarte the Smurfs!

Later, though, there were many female Smurfs, including the previously unknown Granny Smurf, as well as Smurf children.

 

[TwilightEL]

Smurfette was created by Gargamel to infiltarte the Smurfs!

Later, though, there were many female Smurfs, including the previously unknown Granny Smurf, as well as Smurf children.

Have you ever read Pratchett's Wee Free Men? I read it, moved on, and literally months later sat bolt upright and said out loud, "Oh my God, they're Smurfs!" That book acquired a whole new dimension of hilarity for me.

Topic? Um... I've read at maximum three romance mangas in my life and I suspect they weren't very good, but the guys have no spine and are constantly getting smacked around by screechy, two-dimensional women. Why is that? Is that actually a turn on for some people? I wanted a meteor to hit their house just so they'll stop being morons.

 

[Joe Kalicki]

I haven't read Wee Free Men, but I think I might now.

I read this one Manga about lesbians, or whatever it was about. The girls were together, then one fell in love with a boy and the other couldn't move on. It was all right.

I also like Chobits, which is about a female robot.

 

[Victor Von Doom]

So lemme pose this question....


Because I can't be bothered with searching back thru 20 pages of posts.....those of you who don't like the way women are portrayed in comics, how would you like to see them portrayed and what women currently do you find to be acceptable?

While I may like teh pretty pictures---I admit that it can be tiring seeing the exact same portrayal of supermodel-shaped women in spandex and leather. As well as the stereotypical role they play.

I know Compound listed a number of women who would be deemed accpetable/believable like Jessica Jones, Agent 355, The Girls of Runaways, etc. Just wondering....

 

[TwilightEL]

So lemme pose this question....


Because I can't be bothered with searching back thru 20 pages of posts.....those of you who don't like the way women are portrayed in comics, how would you like to see them portrayed and what women currently do you find to be acceptable?

While I may like teh pretty pictures---I admit that it can be tiring seeing the exact same portrayal of supermodel-shaped women in spandex and leather. As well as the stereotypical role they play.

I know Compound listed a number of women who would be deemed accpetable/believable like Jessica Jones, Agent 355, The Girls of Runaways, etc. Just wondering....

I can't speak for everyone, but I would be satisfied if:

Women wore logical costumes. I'm not saying they have to be super-reasonable and realistic. I don't want spandex and bright colors to go away. I do, however, want them to cover up more and not look like their breasts are going to fall out. I don't want to be able to tell whether or not they're wearing underwear, but if I can tell I'd prefer they are. I'd like heels to be reasonable if not eliminated. I don't want skirts to be the default.

Women were drawn with muscles. I don't care how big their breasts are as long as the proportions are realistic. I want them to have abdominal muscles and thicker limbs. I want them to look more like athletes and less like supermodels. I also want them to look realistic--some artists have disproportionate women but proportionate men. However, I think that most artists who can't draw realistic women can't draw realistic men either.

Women weren't objectified. To clarify--objectified doesn't mean idealized or big-breasted or hotter than I am. This means they have blank expressions, are displaying their sexual features for the audience without any display of emotion or personality, or are helpless and terrified when normally they'd kick ***. I don't mean that you can't show women in peril or looking sexy on the cover, but their sexiness should be secondary to them being pissed off/evil/awesome/fighting/smart/whatever. Anything like the Heroes for Hire cover that plays up a women in danger and afraid as being sexy is garbage.

I don't think I've ever seen a woman be poorly written because of her gender. Although I've heard stories about it happening, it seems to be more ****ty writing in general than prejudice or misogyny. However, I have heard about rape being retconned or put into a lot of character's backgrounds. I don't think that should be played up as the only bad thing that can happen to a woman or the only reason a woman should become a hero, but I think that poorly written rape is, naturally, restricted to bad writers.

 

[Mavericker]

I can't speak for everyone, but I would be satisfied if:

Women wore logical costumes. I'm not saying they have to be super-reasonable and realistic. I don't want spandex and bright colors to go away. I do, however, want them to cover up more and not look like their breasts are going to fall out. I don't want to be able to tell whether or not they're wearing underwear, but if I can tell I'd prefer they are. I'd like heels to be reasonable if not eliminated. I don't want skirts to be the default.

Women were drawn with muscles. I don't care how big their breasts are as long as the proportions are realistic. I want them to have abdominal muscles and thicker limbs. I want them to look more like athletes and less like supermodels. I also want them to look realistic--some artists have disproportionate women but proportionate men. However, I think that most artists who can't draw realistic women can't draw realistic men either.

Women weren't objectified. To clarify--objectified doesn't mean idealized or big-breasted or hotter than I am. This means they have blank expressions, are displaying their sexual features for the audience without any display of emotion or personality, or are helpless and terrified when normally they'd kick ***. I don't mean that you can't show women in peril or looking sexy on the cover, but their sexiness should be secondary to them being pissed off/evil/awesome/fighting/smart/whatever. Anything like the Heroes for Hire cover that plays up a women in danger and afraid as being sexy is garbage.

I don't think I've ever seen a woman be poorly written because of her gender. Although I've heard stories about it happening, it seems to be more ****ty writing in general than prejudice or misogyny. However, I have heard about rape being retconned or put into a lot of character's backgrounds. I don't think that should be played up as the only bad thing that can happen to a woman or the only reason a woman should become a hero, but I think that poorly written rape is, naturally, restricted to bad writers.

Yes women shouldn't be objectified-I'd like to see more brainy, book smart characters.

 

[Jaggyd]

I can't speak for everyone, but I would be satisfied if:

Women wore logical costumes. I'm not saying they have to be super-reasonable and realistic. I don't want spandex and bright colors to go away. I do, however, want them to cover up more and not look like their breasts are going to fall out. I don't want to be able to tell whether or not they're wearing underwear, but if I can tell I'd prefer they are. I'd like heels to be reasonable if not eliminated. I don't want skirts to be the default.

Women were drawn with muscles. I don't care how big their breasts are as long as the proportions are realistic. I want them to have abdominal muscles and thicker limbs. I want them to look more like athletes and less like supermodels. I also want them to look realistic--some artists have disproportionate women but proportionate men. However, I think that most artists who can't draw realistic women can't draw realistic men either.

Women weren't objectified. To clarify--objectified doesn't mean idealized or big-breasted or hotter than I am. This means they have blank expressions, are displaying their sexual features for the audience without any display of emotion or personality, or are helpless and terrified when normally they'd kick ***. I don't mean that you can't show women in peril or looking sexy on the cover, but their sexiness should be secondary to them being pissed off/evil/awesome/fighting/smart/whatever. Anything like the Heroes for Hire cover that plays up a women in danger and afraid as being sexy is garbage.

I don't think I've ever seen a woman be poorly written because of her gender. Although I've heard stories about it happening, it seems to be more ****ty writing in general than prejudice or misogyny. However, I have heard about rape being retconned or put into a lot of character's backgrounds. I don't think that should be played up as the only bad thing that can happen to a woman or the only reason a woman should become a hero, but I think that poorly written rape is, naturally, restricted to bad writers.

Y'know...I'm going to focus on one part, cus I agree with Twilight on 90% of this.

She brought up the cover to Heroes for Hire...wtf happened to that title?? When it was Daughters of the Dragon, it was THE most badass chick comic I've ever read...now it's like it's dance of the stereotypes.

The only rape story that I felt added to the story was in Identity Crisis. I felt that was what these costume clad misfits would consider going over the line. I mean yeah killing off a sidekick or hero is one thing, that's part of the job, but the rape of at least one civilian was more than they could normally handle (and it's been eluded to that Dr Light was/is a serial rapist). So as stomach turning as it was, I feel that it felt it fit the story.

 

[TwilightEL]

Yes women shouldn't be objectified-I'd like to see more brainy, book smart characters.

I'd like a woman genius character. However, I don't think someone should make one just for the sake of making one because that's tokenism and she'd probably suck.

 

[Jaggyd]

I'd like a woman genius character. However, I don't think someone should make one just for the sake of making one because that's tokenism and she'd probably suck.

There are several genius level heroines, I dunno why no one seems to notice them. Look at Oracle, Renee Montoya, Jenny Sparks, Natasha Irons, Sage, Kitty Pryde, Monet "M" St Croix, The Engineer, the Japanese Dr Light...those are the ones i came up with off the top of my head. Aside from the Engineer, they all have pretty modest costumes too.

Oh yeah...forgot Harley Quinn ^_^

 

[TwilightEL]

There are several genius level heroines, I dunno why no one seems to notice them. Look at Oracle, Renee Montoya, Jenny Sparks, Natasha Irons, Sage, Kitty Pryde, Monet "M" St Croix, The Engineer, the Japanese Dr Light...those are the ones i came up with off the top of my head. Aside from the Engineer, they all have pretty modest costumes too.

Sorry, I meant inventors or scientists and the two or three women on your list I've heard of don't fall into that category. *wikipedia* Sweet.

 

[Zombipanda]

I can't speak for everyone, but I would be satisfied if:

Women wore logical costumes. I'm not saying they have to be super-reasonable and realistic. I don't want spandex and bright colors to go away. I do, however, want them to cover up more and not look like their breasts are going to fall out. I don't want to be able to tell whether or not they're wearing underwear, but if I can tell I'd prefer they are. I'd like heels to be reasonable if not eliminated. I don't want skirts to be the default.

Y'know, to be honest, that surprises me as well. Designing characters is part of the job of being an artist. And for all the talent these guys have, it shouldn't be hard to design a costume that's appealing and also somewhat functional.

Maybe fanboys are a part of the problem. It's kind of hard to make new costumes for old characters that the fans won't scoff at. Look at Donna Troy.

Women were drawn with muscles. I don't care how big their breasts are as long as the proportions are realistic. I want them to have abdominal muscles and thicker limbs. I want them to look more like athletes and less like supermodels. I also want them to look realistic--some artists have disproportionate women but proportionate men. However, I think that most artists who can't draw realistic women can't draw realistic men either.

Have you ever seen the women fighters on the World Combat League? They have fighter's bodies, and fight more brutally than the men do, but their bodies are still feminine.

Women weren't objectified. To clarify--objectified doesn't mean idealized or big-breasted or hotter than I am. This means they have blank expressions, are displaying their sexual features for the audience without any display of emotion or personality, or are helpless and terrified when normally they'd kick ***. I don't mean that you can't show women in peril or looking sexy on the cover, but their sexiness should be secondary to them being pissed off/evil/awesome/fighting/smart/whatever. Anything like the Heroes for Hire cover that plays up a women in danger and afraid as being sexy is garbage.

and that's funny, because all the Heroes for Hire issues I've read have two heroines who are smart, ***-kicking, independent, and while their costumes show off their bodies, they're still indicative of the characters. I guess that didn't sell, huh?

I don't think I've ever seen a woman be poorly written because of her gender. Although I've heard stories about it happening, it seems to be more ****ty writing in general than prejudice or misogyny. However, I have heard about rape being retconned or put into a lot of character's backgrounds. I don't think that should be played up as the only bad thing that can happen to a woman or the only reason a woman should become a hero, but I think that poorly written rape is, naturally, restricted to bad writers.

Rape:Heroines:arents Dying:Heroes

 

[Victor Von Doom]

I can't speak for everyone, but I would be satisfied if:

Women wore logical costumes. I'm not saying they have to be super-reasonable and realistic. I don't want spandex and bright colors to go away. I do, however, want them to cover up more and not look like their breasts are going to fall out. I don't want to be able to tell whether or not they're wearing underwear, but if I can tell I'd prefer they are. I'd like heels to be reasonable if not eliminated. I don't want skirts to be the default.

Women were drawn with muscles. I don't care how big their breasts are as long as the proportions are realistic. I want them to have abdominal muscles and thicker limbs. I want them to look more like athletes and less like supermodels. I also want them to look realistic--some artists have disproportionate women but proportionate men. However, I think that most artists who can't draw realistic women can't draw realistic men either.

Women weren't objectified. To clarify--objectified doesn't mean idealized or big-breasted or hotter than I am. This means they have blank expressions, are displaying their sexual features for the audience without any display of emotion or personality, or are helpless and terrified when normally they'd kick ***. I don't mean that you can't show women in peril or looking sexy on the cover, but their sexiness should be secondary to them being pissed off/evil/awesome/fighting/smart/whatever. Anything like the Heroes for Hire cover that plays up a women in danger and afraid as being sexy is garbage.

I don't think I've ever seen a woman be poorly written because of her gender. Although I've heard stories about it happening, it seems to be more ****ty writing in general than prejudice or misogyny. However, I have heard about rape being retconned or put into a lot of character's backgrounds. I don't think that should be played up as the only bad thing that can happen to a woman or the only reason a woman should become a hero, but I think that poorly written rape is, naturally, restricted to bad writers.

Agreed....for the most part. Part of it is writing...part of it is the artist.

Yes women shouldn't be objectified-I'd like to see more brainy, book smart characters.

Well....that statement, however well intentioned it may be, could be construded as sexist. Over more specifically, a sexist cover-up or over-compensation.

There are plenty of intelligent women in comics today. While not all of them may be geniuses per se, they have to be intelligent to achieve what they've achieved.

Janet Van Dyne/Pym runs her own fashion corporation. Last I checked you needed a smart head for business to do that. I know I couldn't do it.

Carol Danvers is a trained military operative with a wealth of tactical knowledge. She's a captain. And you don't get to become an officer in the military with a college degree.

Sue Storm is a doctor.

There's another woman (I forget the name) on Iron Man working on The Extremis project. She's just as smart as Tony Stark. You can't refute his intelligence.

To be quite honest I can't think of a "Stupid" female.

So the idea of having more "brainy" women sounds like a cover-up to a more "dominating" attitude towards women. Not saying you are....just saying is all....

Y'know...I'm going to focus on one part, cus I agree with Twilight on 90% of this.

She brought up the cover to Heroes for Hire...wtf happened to that title?? When it was Daughters of the Dragon, it was THE most badass chick comic I've ever read...now it's like it's dance of the stereotypes.

The only rape story that I felt added to the story was in Identity Crisis. I felt that was what these costume clad misfits would consider going over the line. I mean yeah killing off a sidekick or hero is one thing, that's part of the job, but the rape of at least one civilian was more than they could normally handle (and it's been eluded to that Dr Light was/is a serial rapist). So as stomach turning as it was, I feel that it felt it fit the story.

Agreed on all counts. I'd like to see more stuff like Daughters of the Dragon. I honestly felt that that book captured a perfect balance of how women should be written in comics. Smart, tough, sexy and all while being realistic.

I'd like a woman genius character. However, I don't think someone should make one just for the sake of making one because that's tokenism and she'd probably suck.

Yep.

 

[Mavericker]

I'd like to see more strong black leads.

 

[Jaggyd]

Sorry, I meant inventors or scientists and the two or three women on your list I've heard of don't fall into that category. *wikipedia* Sweet.

Okay, Natasha Irons, The Engineer, Babs, Dr Light and Harley Quinn are all either engineers, scientists or classically trained doctors.

Sage is a genius level intellect that has been shown to give characters like Forge (and by proxy Tony Stark) a run for their money.

Kitty and Monet are vastly intelligent characters as well.

Renee and Kate (whom I didn't mention) are being built up to be near Batman level detectives.

I mean hell, even Emma Frost in her skin exposing glory is a brilliant and very dominant (except for when Whedon writes her) business woman.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

I'd like to see more strong black leads.

Monica Rambeau

'Nuff Said.

 

[McCheese]

I'd like to see more strong black leads.

But what does that have to do with WOMEN IN COMICS?

 

[Zombipanda]

I'd like to see more strong black leads.

Doc's right. Monica Rambeua is the ****. There's also Agent 335, Misty Knight... hm.... Who else? If we're talking about black dudes too, the list is pretty extensive.