Void.M
Well-Known Member
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- Dec 10, 2005
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Theres Sentry's wife who just got killed by She-Ultron.
Spoiler from dc not to mention Kyles GF he found in his fridge(where the term originated)
Im guessing gwen stacy.
Women in comics
- Thread starter TwilightEL
- Start date
Theres Sentry's wife who just got killed by She-Ultron.
Spoiler from dc not to mention Kyles GF he found in his fridge(where the term originated)
Im guessing gwen stacy.
ourchair
Well-Known Member
I can't believe there's a She-Ultron. In addition to the fact that Jocasta is essentially a She-Ultron.
Seldes Katne
Site mom
Someone had requested that we post pictures or examples of what we considered to be sexism in comics, so here's a batch from me for everyone's viewing amusement. Warning: these also come with commentary, some of which is not particularly polite, so if you want to retain any sort of image of me as a nice, Mom-type person, please stop reading now. (Ice, seriously, if you're reading this, go read something else. I mean it.)
Some of the pictures I'm posting really do seem sexist to me; others just represent general cluelessness on the part of the author/artist and happen to involve a female character. I'll try to specify which is which.
I'm going to start with what I consider to be major costume blunders that seem to apply almost entirely to women. Now, I will state that not all women superheroes get this kind of treatment, and that in many ways, I think women are depicted much more respectfully now than they used to be. We've come quite a ways from the time when women appeared in comics books just to serve as wives, girlfriends, secretaries, or a built-in victim to be rescued from the bad guy of the month. But there's still room for some improvement.
The following are drawings that suggest that various comic book artists don't actually know any women personally....
From Civil War: Frontline, GN vol. 1:
Okay, first of all, how does this woman's costume stay on? I mean, really, there's nothing holding it up on top. Does she superglue herself into it? (Wouldn't that take a long time? Wouldn't it be easier to just pull on some kind of T-shirt?) Occasionally I've seen figure skaters who appear to have this kind of outfit on, but if you look closely at their costumes, there is a piece of fabric from the chest up that pretty closely matches their skin tones and that covers them right up to the neck. (Women figure skaters, and other female athletes, also tend not to be as, ah, "well endowed" as this character is.)
Also, is there some reason we have to have a picture of some guy staring at her? (Bottom right of picture.) A reader/viewer's eyes tend to follow the direction of a character's eyes, so the artist is in a sense directing the reader right to this woman's outfit.
And from Grant Morrison's run on New X-Men: E is for Extinction:
Same problem with gravity here. What's keeping this top on? Is Emma Frost holding it with telekinesis or something? If so, shouldn't someone introduce her to the concept of a bra? That way Emma could get her mind off her chest and onto other topics. (And so could we....)
Just as an aside, Emma Frost has my nomination for one of the habitually worst-dressed characters in the Marvel Universe. She really needs to be nominated for the TLC series What Not to Wear, and could probably serve as the subject of the show's first ever two-part episode.
Again, from Civil War: Frontline GN vol. 1:
Different superhero, similar problem. This scene took place at the bottom of a page; the underground, anti-registration forces have just been surprised by a S.H.I.E.L.D. security force (or something like that), and that means that in the next few panels or pages, there is going to be a fight sequence or a bunch of people running, or both. Either way, I was afraid to turn the page, because there's pretty much nothing holding this woman's chest into her costume, and she obviously is not wearing a bra. Also, we again have a character's eyes at chest-level on this woman.
More to follow....
Some of the pictures I'm posting really do seem sexist to me; others just represent general cluelessness on the part of the author/artist and happen to involve a female character. I'll try to specify which is which.
I'm going to start with what I consider to be major costume blunders that seem to apply almost entirely to women. Now, I will state that not all women superheroes get this kind of treatment, and that in many ways, I think women are depicted much more respectfully now than they used to be. We've come quite a ways from the time when women appeared in comics books just to serve as wives, girlfriends, secretaries, or a built-in victim to be rescued from the bad guy of the month. But there's still room for some improvement.
The following are drawings that suggest that various comic book artists don't actually know any women personally....
From Civil War: Frontline, GN vol. 1:
Okay, first of all, how does this woman's costume stay on? I mean, really, there's nothing holding it up on top. Does she superglue herself into it? (Wouldn't that take a long time? Wouldn't it be easier to just pull on some kind of T-shirt?) Occasionally I've seen figure skaters who appear to have this kind of outfit on, but if you look closely at their costumes, there is a piece of fabric from the chest up that pretty closely matches their skin tones and that covers them right up to the neck. (Women figure skaters, and other female athletes, also tend not to be as, ah, "well endowed" as this character is.)
Also, is there some reason we have to have a picture of some guy staring at her? (Bottom right of picture.) A reader/viewer's eyes tend to follow the direction of a character's eyes, so the artist is in a sense directing the reader right to this woman's outfit.
And from Grant Morrison's run on New X-Men: E is for Extinction:
Same problem with gravity here. What's keeping this top on? Is Emma Frost holding it with telekinesis or something? If so, shouldn't someone introduce her to the concept of a bra? That way Emma could get her mind off her chest and onto other topics. (And so could we....)
Just as an aside, Emma Frost has my nomination for one of the habitually worst-dressed characters in the Marvel Universe. She really needs to be nominated for the TLC series What Not to Wear, and could probably serve as the subject of the show's first ever two-part episode.
Again, from Civil War: Frontline GN vol. 1:
Different superhero, similar problem. This scene took place at the bottom of a page; the underground, anti-registration forces have just been surprised by a S.H.I.E.L.D. security force (or something like that), and that means that in the next few panels or pages, there is going to be a fight sequence or a bunch of people running, or both. Either way, I was afraid to turn the page, because there's pretty much nothing holding this woman's chest into her costume, and she obviously is not wearing a bra. Also, we again have a character's eyes at chest-level on this woman.
More to follow....
Honestly, I freely admit, I enjoy Emma's trashy costumes.
With that said, I agree with Seldes, and as a woman aspiring to be a comic artist, I've run into the "you'd do well in the industry if you make your women more heroic", translation "me likey big boobies". It's really aggravating sometimes, I mean look at characters like Stature, she's a kid, and some artists (both pro and fan) seem to need to draw her with DD's.
it kinda irritates me when most or the art requests I get are for Powergirl.
With that said, I agree with Seldes, and as a woman aspiring to be a comic artist, I've run into the "you'd do well in the industry if you make your women more heroic", translation "me likey big boobies". It's really aggravating sometimes, I mean look at characters like Stature, she's a kid, and some artists (both pro and fan) seem to need to draw her with DD's.
it kinda irritates me when most or the art requests I get are for Powergirl.
Planet-man
Well-Known Member
I'd be actively embarassed to read a PowerGirl comic with the way she's drawn today.
Hibiki
Really is pretentious, no matter what she says. Do
same here, i feel like a perv even skimming through her comics or ones she's involved in...and i'm a girl. it's degrading to a point. some i don't mind the chest size because it goes with their bodies. other yeah, like cassie? c'mon.
Biggest reason why I don't/can't read She-Hulk.
Victor Von Doom
Fist of teh Internets.
She-Hulk is actually good and I don't have a problem with how she's drawn. From what I remember---she was drawn in a female bodybuilder fashion and not elfish sex symbol like other artists. I dropped it a while back during Civil War...but I've been meaning to catch up on it in trades.
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So I've heard. I think I read an issue or two and thought it was decent enough to keep reading...if it didn't make me look like a huge perv.
Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
I remember you posting that, too. :lol:
Seldes Katne
Site mom
And, yes, that's legit. There are probably any number of women who wouldn't have the same complaints I do about comics.
I think I would have fewer objections to Emma's wardrobe if she wasn't supposed to be a teacher. (Or maybe I wouldn't have fewer objections -- I'm sorry, but I am kind of a prude....) Her wardrobe is unprofessional and, I would think, something of a distraction. Really, how many of Emma's male students do you think are keeping their mind on their classwork when their teacher dresses like that?
I actually read She-Hulk and have all five of the trades from Dan Slott's run. I don't know what's happened with the title since Slott left, but one of the real advantages of She-Hulk is that she solves a lot of her problems in the courtroom, in her Jen Walters personna, instead of running around beating people up and trashing the neighborhood. She really is a capable, intelligent woman. Slott also used the title to comment on the state of comic books today (one of my favorite characters is Stu Cicero, who is in charge of the law firm's comic book library. Comic books are, through a twist of law, admissible in court in this series. And Stu frequently allows Slott to mention things like continuity, the fan base, and some of the ethics depicted in comics.)
That said, I do have a couple of beefs about the fact that even She-Hulk displays some of the sexism found in other titles, but I'll save that for later in the slide-show.
(And E and Victor, if you don't want to actually buy the She-Hulk issues, let me know and I'll loan you my copies.)
I might take you up on that sometime, thanks.
That's pretty cool that he had her solving problems in the courtroom instead of beating people up, because Lord knows we have enough fight comics already. But regardless of what is on the inside of the book, I can't do it based on the covers alone.
Didn't Greg "The Perv" Horn do most of the covers?
Well, personally, I think the costume fits Emma, no matter what Scott's got her doing in the school. She's obviously a woman with self-esteem issues who hides behind her diamond (figuratively and literally) exterior. I think that's why I liked when Morrison wrote her, she just oozed emotional issues wrapped tightly in white leather. From then on, other writers have just written her from a sycophant (Astonishing) to a high class hooker (everyone else). I really wish she'd be a bad guy again.
ultimatedjf
Well-Known Member
moonmaster
Without him, all of you would be lost souls roamin
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2005
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Agreed.
They suit her well. Whenever I have to describe Emma, I say that she's Paris Hilton in "Flowers for Algernon". Snobby, mildly-hot girl who dresses pretty skanky but is actually a friggin' genius.
And I distinctly remember that in most "professional" situations involving students, Emma actually dresses relatively well: sweaters and suits and whatnot. She can look professional when she wants to.
I loved Morrison's Emma.
She starts off as this stereotypically *****y snob but when Jean finds out about her and Scott, she just completely transforms into this fragile, human character. The scene where she's crying and talking to Logan and telling how she's a terrible person and Jean and Scott are great and that she just felt bad that they're relationship had fizzled out...It still breaks my heart.
Exactly.
Iceshadow
Well-Known Member
I thought this was interesting.
http://the-isb.blogspot.com/2006/07/badass-week-finale-toughest-woman-in.html
http://the-isb.blogspot.com/2006/07/badass-week-finale-toughest-woman-in.html
compound
Well-Known Member
* redirected from the "Irish Mothers Outraged by All-Star Batman" thread *
Barring the question of who is the "appropriate audience" for this kind of plot device (teenage boys? "mature readers"?), and whether or not it should be restricted, what I'd like to know is:
- to what extent does this "normalize" the violence of so called "torture porn" (as exemplified also by properties like Saw)?
- to what extent does it present unbalanced power relations (specifically between genders) as a "natural" occurance?
- does it necessarily represent the best possible storytelling option, in terms of both literary and entertainment value? Especially if it's supposedly "one of the best All-Star issues, because it finally gets one of the characters right". (I haven't read it, so I wouldn't know how accurate Gothamite's claim is.)
- does it "desensitize" readers towards rape as a means of asserting control and domination (presuming, of course, we accept that rape is a crime of violence rather than passion)?
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