Valiant Relaunch

mike3717 said:
You keep saying this but I have to disagree. To say its weak implies it is poorly written or illustrated or something. And honestly I have to say I disagree. Now, the book may not do anything for you but it is def not a "weak" book. If any of these are weak books, imo, it would be Bloodshot. Which is by and large the same issue over and over again. That was why I dropped it after the first few trades. I was bored with the whole dragging out his past stuff and of the oft repeated blowing him up each issue. To me it got really same-y really quick. It was like "yeah this is alright but I liked this better when it was called Wolverine". For me I like Shadowman cuz I have always dug the spiritual, magical horror type stuff. Think Hellblazer and Sandman in the 90's.
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The reason I find Shadowman to be the weakest VEI title is the lack of character development for Jack. What development there has been has come off as clichéd and uninteresting. There's a problem when the villain (Darque) has been developed far better than the book's main character. I was hoping Milligan would improve on that, and while he's done some interesting stuff in developing the world and mythos surrounding Jack, unfortunately Jack is still a pretty one dimensional, brooding character. He's also being kind of an idiot, based on his pigheaded actions in End Times.

mike3717 said:
Racist
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Don't mistake my fondness for dick jokes for racism. It's not racism, but elementary immature humor.

Also, Bloodshot isn't as simple as the "blown up each issue" description. It's certainly not the best Valiant title, but it's fun and interesting. I'm a big fan of the Kozol character and seeing how he manipulates the HARD Corps team. Though now it seems Bloodshot is on his own again after issue #23.
 
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Going to give Harbinger some more issues to wow me. If only to get DIrishB to read more Transformers :p
 
DIrishB said:
Oh I'm reading more Transformers. Like I said, I'll read through the entire line of the IDW continuity over the next few months, to give it a fair shot. I'll hopefully be able to knock out 10-12 issues this weekend.
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Just do what I did, read the entire universe in a weekend :p
 
DIrishB said:
Lol. To be fair, you didn't read the entire universe. Plus I think there are more Transformers issues than Valiant issues, so...

;)
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Oh I meant that's what I did with Transformers. Granted a lot of that was re-reading.
 
DIrishB said:
The reason I find Shadowman to be the weakest VEI title is the lack of character development for Jack. What development there has been has come off as clichéd and uninteresting. There's a problem when the villain (Darque) has been developed far better than the book's main character. I was hoping Milligan would improve on that, and while he's done some interesting stuff in developing the world and mythos surrounding Jack, unfortunately Jack is still a pretty one dimensional, brooding character. He's also being kind of an idiot, based on his pigheaded actions in End Times.
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I agree that Jack is a fairly unlikeable main character. And yes, a bit of an idiot. That's fair enough I just kinda took issue with how it was tagged as "weak" but you are entitled to your opinion. Personally I don't feel like his lack of development is as bad as you you say or that it takes away from the story. I feel like we know enough at this point to still enjoy the story. I kind of get the feeling we as readers are supposed to a bit frustrated with what a wanker he is. Which is a bit of an interesting choice, if that is the writers intent.

DIrishB said:
Don't mistake my fondness for dick jokes for racism. It's not racism, but elementary immature humor.

Also, Bloodshot isn't as simple as the "blown up each issue" description. It's certainly not the best Valiant title, but it's fun and interesting. I'm a big fan of the Kozol character and seeing how he manipulates the HARD Corps team. Though now it seems Bloodshot is on his own again after issue #23.
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I was just teasing mate. Don't really think you are racist. I'm right with ya on the whole "elementary immature humor" thing. And yeah I get that my description of Bloodshot was a bit simplistic. I don't think it's a bad book. Just not one of the best and def one that does much for me.
 
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wyokid said:
Oh I meant that's what I did with Transformers. Granted a lot of that was re-reading.
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Oh...

:(

mike3717 said:
I agree that Jack is a fairly unlikeable main character. And yes, a bit of an idiot. That's fair enough I just kinda took issue with how it was tagged as "weak" but you are entitled to your opinion. Personally I don't feel like his lack of development is as bad as you you say or that it takes away from the story. I feel like we know enough at this point to still enjoy the story. I kind of get the feeling we as readers are supposed to a bit frustrated with what a wanker he is. Which is a bit of an interesting choice, if that is the writers intent.
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I'm all for a sense of mystery and the story and characterization being slowly revealed. But at this point we're 16 issues into the series (20 if you count the zero issue and the End Times mini), and Jack is still a one dimensional, completely uninteresting character. The fact Darque was resurrected in the last issue of End Times gives me a bit of hope that the upcoming issues will be more interesting, and perhaps give Jack a more interesting character to play off of and develop as a more three dimensional character himself.

That said, I still like Shadowman, as the supernatural voodoo horror stuff is kind of cool, it's just my personal least favorite Valiant title currently.

I was just teasing mate. Don't really think you are racist.
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I know.

I'm right with ya on the whole "elementary immature humor" thing. And yeah I get that my description of Bloodshot was a bit simplistic. I don't think it's a bad book. Just not one of the best and def one that does much for me.
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Bloodshot is certainly not the best Valiant book, completely agree. I just like the military industrial manipulations and look forward to the character's past (before he became Bloodshot) revealed, to play off his current situation as a near immortal killing machine. I also liked how Bloodshot was able to outplay Kozol and turn the tables on Rising Spirit. It's very similar to the Wolverine/Weapon X vibe, granted, but is also original and independent enough to make it interesting. I'm also looking forward to seeing how Rising Spirit responds to Bloodshot's escape.
 
DIrishB said:
Nice. I know you're not a fan of the gray area approach to heroes, but it really is a fantastic series. While I can understand your dislike for Peter, I have a feeling you'll like some of the Renegades characters.
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I can't read this anymore. I read the second issue and I think I may actually hate this book. It's not interesting, I can't stand any of the characters (I shouldn't be wanting everyone to die every time there's an action beat), and I'm just not enjoying it in the slightest. It reminds me of Mark Millar's X-Men and that made me hate X-Men for nine years. I'm going to try more Bloodshot and X-O Man Guy Thing.
 
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wyokid said:
I can't read this anymore. I read the second issue and I think I may actually hate this book. It's not interesting, I can't stand any of the characters (I shouldn't be wanting everyone to die every time there's an action beat), and I'm just not enjoying it in the slightest. It reminds me of Mark Millar's X-Men and that made me hate X-Men for nine years. I'm going to try more Bloodshot and X-O Man Guy Thing.
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Your opinions are invalid.

;)
 
I finished the first two arcs of Bloodshot and it is absolutely retarded. The boy falls on a fence and is impaled, fights break out at the drop of a hat, he's invincible, everyone is extreme, and it's incredibly violent. It's like a cheesy 80s/90s action flick. I love it.
 
wyokid said:
I finished the first two arcs of Bloodshot and it is absolutely retarded. The boy falls on a fence and is impaled, fights break out at the drop of a hat, he's invincible, everyone is extreme, and it's incredibly violent. It's like a cheesy 80s/90s action flick. I love it.
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Lol, somehow I thought you'd like those aspects. But it gets smarter as the series goes on. After the Harbinger Wars crossover, with the introduction of HARD Corps it gets pretty interesting. Kozol is awesome.

Also, he's not invincible. Close, but he's not impossible to kill like Wolverine, for instance. If you keep reading you'll see that. The zero issues (there's a Bloodshot #0 and a Bloodshot and HARD Corps - HARD Corps #0 issue) shed more light on the Bloodshot program and HARD Corps program.
 
I'm at HARD Corps. Gonna read it after work. How's that Transformers coming?
 
I think HARD Corps lost me after the first issue. I'm going to finish the arc but I'm not optimistic.

EDIT: Yeah, let me know if the writer ever changes. I'm done. I'm going to try and get it so that I'm reading three since that's how many Transformers books there are.
 
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wyokid said:
I think HARD Corps lost me after the first issue. I'm going to finish the arc but I'm not optimistic. EDIT: Yeah, let me know if the writer ever changes. I'm done. I'm going to try and get it so that I'm reading three since that's how many Transformers books there are.
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Like I said, I've been slogging through the largely terrible Transformers books and will read them all the way through (of which there are substantially more than the Valiant books). You could at least read them in their entirety to make a fair opinion.

That said, Bloodshot isn't an inherently deep book, but it does offer an interesting social commentary on our military industrial complex, manipulation by command figures, etc.

Also, Quantum & Woody just finished it's 12 issue run (13 with the Goat #0 issue), might be worth checking out the final issue or two you missed if you liked the previous stuff.

X-O Manowar you may or may not like. It's tough to tell with you, since we have such drastically different tastes.

Shadowman - End Times just finished it's 3 issue run. Next up is The Death Defying Dr. Mirage, which is a direct spin off from Shadowman. Once Dr. Mirage finishes it's 5 issue run Shadowman will apparently start up again, but that won't be until early 2015.

Archer & Armstrong is still my favorite title. I don't get how that didn't gel with you. It's fantastic! Adventure, witty humor, social commentary, interesting and likable characters, what's not to like?

Harbinger isn't my favorite Valiant title, but it's the most beloved by critics.
 
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I'm going to try Quantum & Woody and X-O Manowar again.

EDIT: Read the first arc of Quantum & Woody. Really thin on the plot there. Going to do Rai now instead of continuing.
 
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