Ultimate Thor origin theory.

Rene Descartes

You know, that reminds me of a joke. The philosopher Rene Descartes came up with the phrase "I think therefore I am.". Well, Rene Descartes walks into a bar, and sits at the bar stool. The bartender asks if he would like a beer. Descartes said in response "I think not". And then he magically dissappears.
 
hehe.

Ok, on thor, he's a guy with 'a big scary hammer' he says that he didn't realise he was a god until he was in the mental institution. where did he get the hammer from? Is the hammer the source of his power? and if so, how? I'm loathe to believe that thor is actually a god, but if there something in norse mythology about the ownership of thors hammer? i'm sure there must be and there may be some clues that could develop from that.
 
What if Thor is crazy and his power comes from his craziness? Kind like Gladiator, Shiar imperial guard, whose powers comes from his self-assurance. If he believes he can do it them he can.
This is almost the opposite of Icemastertron theory… …not really.
 
If I really believe i'm a norse god does that mean I can shoot lightning out of my nuts? i think not.
That by the way is a little known factoid about our beloved norwegian fruitloop.
 
I was thinking that maybe he is a mutant that can do anything that he really believes he can. If he weren't crazy he would never developed his powers because he wouldn't believe he could do all the stuff he does. It makes more sense the Ice's theory that he only existes because people believe he existes.
 
I don't buy into that theory either. And personally. I would like the whole thing to remain ambiguous for a lot longer yet. I can even handle it if the speculation is never explained. And if they do need to explain something now, then I hope it leaves us with a lot more mystery than what we currently have.
 
Yeah, I agree that Ultimate Thor should be left a mystery. But If he really is a God, how come he didn't know that until he was twelve? Maybe Loki has something to do with it...
 
If he is a norse god, then he would have been around a lot longer than just these few years, so if anything, the spirit or essence wouldn't have always been with this personification of thor all through his life, because what is the use of a childs body to a god.
However, I really don't like the idea of an essence or spirit in the UU
 
icemastertron said:
OK, if this has been done somewhere else, sorry.

But I want to do this because I thought of something interesting.

You see, what if Thor is not real? I mean, the team thinks that he's just someone who thinks he's a Norse God. But what if the only reason he exists, is because someone else thinks, or belives he exits. (Again, if someone else mentioned this, sorry. Not taking the spotlight away from you on purpose).

For those who read the Earth X and the other books, Loki finds out that he doesn't really exist. He's not a real god. He's only there because people belive him to actually exist, but doesn't. So what if Ultimate Thor is just like this too? I thought of this since like Thor said to the fellow Asgardian in the restaurant, he quit the Ultimates because he got what he wanted.- the fame. He's now known throughout the world. So with more people beliveing in him, well...you guys get me?

And maybe this can be the reason why Thor thought he was talking to someone too. The people who belive, may not belive this guy to be true or something. So Thor may think he is, but not the belivers.

Am I just rambling stupidness here? Tell me what you honestly think.
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Ok, I swear i posted this theory like 9 months ago or whenever. Either way, i'm totally claiming credit for it.


mutantfreak said:
What if Thor is crazy and his power comes from his craziness? Kind like Gladiator, Shiar imperial guard, whose powers comes from his self-assurance. If he believes he can do it them he can.
This is almost the opposite of Icemastertron theory… …not really.
Click to expand...

This theory I like too. I know exactly what you mean by this. Thor's a mutant who's power centers on his belief. He believes he can do things so he can.

I do like it, I really do but I like my/Ice's theory better.

Basically Thor draws on the belief and fervour of his supporters. This gives him his power. He's got a substantial following in Europe if you remember so he's not running out of power. People don't have to know everything about him to believe in him. The drawing on emotions has been done before with a bizarre joggling of Polaris' powers that mean she tapped negative emotions and used them in some way. On a side not, this mean the Shadow King was able to take her over, triggering the Muir Island Saga.


But maybe it will be a combination? Thor derives power from belief in what he can do. His belief and others.

Just a few thoughts
 
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Guijllons said:
If he is a norse god, then he would have been around a lot longer than just these few years, so if anything, the spirit or essence wouldn't have always been with this personification of thor all through his life, because what is the use of a childs body to a god.
However, I really don't like the idea of an essence or spirit in the UU
Click to expand...

In our world, there's all sort of weird, unexplainable crap going on, and most people also believe that there is a world beyond this, which also means that most people believe in the existence of spirits. I don't see how having spirits be any less believable then genetic mutations and superhuman experimentations.

I don't believe that Thor theory about "people believing in me so I exist" stuff. How many people in the world believe in Norse mythology anyway? It's either he's a real Norse God (but I want the appearances of Asgardians to be subtle, keeping most of them in the background and unknown to the rest of the world) which we could consider as an extradimensional alien race, or a superhuman/mutant nutjob.
 
I think the UU should stay about more grounded than wander into the 'spirit world' personally. And 'most people' i know, don't believe in the existence of spirits. And yeah, the idea of a genetic mutation that that allows someone to shoot lasers out of their eyes is kinda silly really, but if they try to ground it to real world science a bit, they should be able to steer clear quite easily of silly territory.
 
Guijllons said:
If I really believe i'm a norse god does that mean I can shoot lightning out of my nuts? i think not.
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But you can say that, and you know inside that you don't really believe it. Of course you are real and Thor is a comic character, but you get my point.

mutantfreak said:
Yeah, I agree that Ultimate Thor should be left a mystery. But If he really is a God, how come he didn't know that until he was twelve? Maybe Loki has something to do with it...
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Twelve - around the onset of adolescence, when mutant abilities manifest...hmmm....
 
UltimateE said:
Twelve - around the onset of adolescence, when mutant abilities manifest...hmmm....
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Also, if I might point this out, the age at which Jesus was found by his parents in the temple, discussing religious matters with the scribes and rabbis. This is one of the earliest hints in Jesus' life that he might indeed be the Son of God. This and the fact that Thor apparently suffered his nervous breakdown at the age of 28 or 29 ("just short of his 30th birthday", according to Bruce Banner), and several other behaviorisms, provides strong parallels between Thor and Jesus, who is one of the most prominent examples of a God born among men. Jesus started his public life of preaching at the age of 30.

I'm not sure whether Mark Millar is doing that on purpose, or whether I'm just seeing the parallels because I've been a practicing Catholic my entire life.

In a sense Thor reminds me of the guest character on the old television show M*A*S*H* who came to the 4077th convinced he was Jesus. Even though the staff traced his background to a perfectly normal young man who just finally snapped because of the horrors of war, by the end of the episode everyone was responding to this man as though he were indeed Jesus. (Radar even asks him to bless his teddy bear, if I recall correctly.) The power of faith, or belief, can be very strong, and often defies reason.

Guijllons said:
Ok, on thor, he's a guy with 'a big scary hammer' he says that he didn't realise he was a god until he was in the mental institution. where did he get the hammer from? Is the hammer the source of his power? and if so, how? I'm loathe to believe that thor is actually a god, but if there something in norse mythology about the ownership of thors hammer? i'm sure there must be and there may be some clues that could develop from that.
Click to expand...

In Norse mythology, the hammer Mjolnir (or Mjollnir, or Miolnir, depending on how creative you want your spelling) belonged to Thor most of the time, although I believe one of his sons inherited it after his death in the Ragnarok. I don't remember any of the myths dealing with it after that. (Where's Caduceus? He knows a lot more about this than I do....) I'm aware of one myth in which Mjolnir was stolen and ended up in the possession of some of the giants, but Thor (disguised as a bride, of all things) travels with Loki to retrieve it. I'm not aware of the giants actually using the hammer for anything while they had it. (If possible, find yourself a copy of the story and read it. Parts of it are quite funny.)

One of the problems I have with the hammer is that the depiction of it in The Ultimates does not match the description of it from the Norse myths. Mjolnir's handle is actually very short in the myths; as it was being forged, Loki turned into some kind of insect and repeatedly stung the dwarven smith making it, so the handle turned out to be the wrong size. It doesn't stop Thor from using quite effectively, of course.... Mjolnir in The Ultimates looks as to be about half the size of New Jersey, and the handle is really rather long. I'm not sure whether there's really much point in using anything other than the most basic information from the myths in drawing conclusions about Thor in The Ultimates, as Millar seems to be doing pretty much whatever he wants with the character. I think the Ultimate portrayal is fascinating, but there seems to be only a passing nod given to the myths. Millar may be drawing more from the 616 version of the character than the mythological image of Thor.

Another problem is that nowhere in the Norse myths does Thor show any ability to fly or teleport, either with Mjolnir or without it. Yet he can do both in The Ultimates. If the hammer is indeed the source of his powers, I'm not sure I think it's really THE Mjolnir. At times, Thor seems to be someone who has read some of the myths, but doesn't remember all the details, or who has decided to "upgrade" the character and the hammer for the 21st century.
 
I think you might be giving me just a little too much credit on my knowledge of norse mythology sunshine. I do recall the disguised as a bride story but not where i heard it and I don't know anything about Thor's sons inheriting Mjolnir. This means its quite possible. Maybe you can find something out in your library, if you get spare time?

Maybe we just need to re-read our Douglas Adams. There was a man who could modernize a Norse myth worth anything. One of the most tragic deaths in the last few years. Even then, "Salmon of Doubt" is still one of the funniest books I've ever read.
 
Seldes Katne said:
Also, if I might point this out, the age at which Jesus was found by his parents in the temple, discussing religious matters with the scribes and rabbis. This is one of the earliest hints in Jesus' life that he might indeed be the Son of God. This and the fact that Thor apparently suffered his nervous breakdown at the age of 28 or 29 ("just short of his 30th birthday", according to Bruce Banner), and several other behaviorisms, provides strong parallels between Thor and Jesus, who is one of the most prominent examples of a God born among men. Jesus started his public life of preaching at the age of 30.
Click to expand...

Very interesting...great pickup....
 
UltimateE said:
Very interesting...great pickup....
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You should see her ENTIRE theory! It's long, but she has so many interesting things that match up, that's it's just like "Wow!" :wink:
 
OK, Seldes Katne, don't hold out on us...:D
 
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