Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Haha!Seldes Katne said:And no, I'm not suggesting anything here, I just thought it was amusing....
Oh Salsa Queen, where would we be without you? :wink:
Ultimate Thor origin theory.
- Thread starter Ice
- Start date
Oh Salsa Queen, where would we be without you? :wink:
leather_w0lf
Well-Known Member
Sweet Success
A good theory will (and that's mostly all I've stated) have av good argument behind it.
I'm glad I was able to get people's thoughts going enough to respond to it all.
And Volstagg is a 616 transplant.
Oh, one more thing - all good theories have holes in them. That's why they are just theories and not facts.
Leather
A good theory will (and that's mostly all I've stated) have av good argument behind it.
I'm glad I was able to get people's thoughts going enough to respond to it all.
And Volstagg is a 616 transplant.
Oh, one more thing - all good theories have holes in them. That's why they are just theories and not facts.
Leather
Seldes Katne
Site mom
Yes, and at this point it's all conjecture anyway, unless someone can telepathically probe Mark Millar's mind and come up with the truth. (And don't look at me, I'm not doing it. :? ) At this point I think we're all just enjoying the discussion.leather_w0lf said:Oh, one more thing - all good theories have holes in them. That's why they are just theories and not facts.
Leather
Ice, my boy, should I ask what you were under the influence of when you posted that response...? :shock:
Seldes Katne
Site mom
That's it -- I am going straight home and cleaning out the refrigerator!UltimateE said:
anic: Apparently you and Ice are eating out of the same bottle... :?Caduceus said:
Seldes Katne
Site mom
No, actually, I don't.Caduceus said:
And don't enlighten me. :sure: Some things I'd really rather not know....
Could we please get back on topic?
leather_w0lf
Well-Known Member
Ooopsie
<pulls his head out of his *edit bottom*>
I said Milar on UFF? I did mean Ellis . . . who happens to be writing Nightmare . . . Secret . . . Arrival - right?
Which is why it was mentioned.
heh heh
PEACE!
Leather
<pulls his head out of his *edit bottom*>
I said Milar on UFF? I did mean Ellis . . . who happens to be writing Nightmare . . . Secret . . . Arrival - right?
Which is why it was mentioned.
heh heh
PEACE!
Leather
Last edited by a moderator:
Goodwill
Well-Known Member
Well, getting back to the whole origin theory, help me out with this one... In the solicitations it says that Thor is not telling anyone otherwise about his mental state. What if this whole thing ended up being his imagination playing tricks on him. It may not explain the powers, but if it completely flopped, how pissed would you guys be?
Goodwill
Well-Known Member
Really? Wow... If I were you I'd have a field day. Maybe it's because I have something against Millar for leaving UXM, who knows.
TheManWithoutFear
#1 reason not to join UC
If he was actually crazy? I'd be really disappointed.
Just dumping this in here from another thread,
You ask if I'd want to know if Jesus was real. Absolutely. I, along with many millions of people now wouldn't give a decrepit camel for Christianity anyway. The same applies to Thor. Just having him random and ill-defined would damage him seriously as a character and I'd really much rather find out for certain. Besides, if Jesus was real, that'd solve nearly as many religious arguments as it would create. Same with Thor.
Goodwill said:
You ask if I'd want to know if Jesus was real. Absolutely. I, along with many millions of people now wouldn't give a decrepit camel for Christianity anyway. The same applies to Thor. Just having him random and ill-defined would damage him seriously as a character and I'd really much rather find out for certain. Besides, if Jesus was real, that'd solve nearly as many religious arguments as it would create. Same with Thor.
Goodwill
Well-Known Member
Well, a lot of what is keeping Jesus alive right now is faith. If, a long time ago, someone were to find out that Jesus was the real deal, there would be no such thing as fate, religion, and ethical beliefs because, while they have something to look forward to, there's no reason to worry or have the emotions one has when you're religious. If Millar wanted to translate this into a comic, he'd leave it alone, too.
Goodwill said:
On the contrary, confirming Jesus' validity would only enhance the fervour. It removes the possibility of religious variety but it also flat out demands notice. You can't ignore what he said and did if he real, even if its not important to you or your life. Fate, religion and ethical beliefs would be changed, no doubt, but they would also be strengthened. Being the real deal only enhances the validity of what you say. Can't you visualize Ultimate Thor being real and the immense effect of that revelation on the entire world? THATS what I'd like to see in an Ultimate comic.
TheManWithoutFear
#1 reason not to join UC
I half agree with Goodz about keeping Thor a mystery. I think it's kinda early to bring him out like this. The whole mystery behind him and characters like Black Widow getting all frustrated about it made me laugh and was pretty cool. I don't know why they're doing this so early.
Bass
Nexus of the World
Hey, this is my first post, I stumbled onto this site whilst searching for Ultimate Thor's origin and speculations about it.
There have been some great ideas here, things I hadn't noticed, and I've just read 8 pages of posts, so I apologise - but I can't remember who said what. So, I'll just go through my head as clearly and succinctly as possible.
Firstly, I'm really looking forward to Ultimate Galactus' arrival. Maybe all the super soldier projects have been attempts to find ways to create warriors to protect us from Galactus since SHIELD and other top-level institutions have been aware of his coming for quite some time. Perhaps Ultimate Galactus comes from the N-Zone (he's always supposed to come from the previous universe and maybe he destroyed the N-Zone, that's why its entropic).
Secondly, I've been thinking - is it unlikely that Ultron leaked the files (he is hooked up to Pym's files after all)? But I'm unsure as to who benefits from Banner's fate, and therefore, am not entirely convinced Ultron, Loki (or even his ally) was behind this fate - for Fury does benefit to some extent if I'm correct in my assumption that Ultimates 2 will end with SHIELD versus The Ultimates, with Captain America on the latter side.
But now to Thor: I'm very happy Thor is about to be unveiled. The reason is this: if Mark and Bryan left Ultimate Thor a mystery, a couple of years (or decades) down the road, some other guy would show up and give him his origin, and I personally, would prefer these guys to do it since y'know, they came up with this version of the character.
As for the Jesus metaphors - there are many, and of course, they're all appropriate (how many times does Thor appear with the sun behind him like he's an angel?). And I really think that #5 will end with Thor's crucifixtion (not necessarilly death, indeed he could survive but be unknown, foreshadowed in Banner's fate). I think that we are building up to Thor's act of martyrdom.
As for my idea, the set-up is below in italics, with the final sentence in bold - because that one sentence should make perfect sense, though I've still gone an included a follow-up analysis. I think that Millar's origin for Thor will be very succinct and when its revealed, it'll probably be a splash page with one sentence and we'll all slap our foreheads, jaws gawping, shouting "Of course!" If my idea below doesn't make sense to you, well then, I'm probably wrong.
In issue #2 I saw Nick Fury tell Tony Stark, "I'd rather have that hammer with us than against us" and it hit me - I've been thinking about Thor and not Mjolnir.
I don't think Fury has made this mistake - for him its always been about the hammer. He seems to have no respect for Thor, only for his hammer. He wants to not upset Thor's apple cart because he wants that damn hammer. So he can make more. Armies of super soldiers, and norse gods.
To understand Thor's origin, we must understand Mjolnir's. The SHIELD intel says that Thor was a normal man, probably very unremarkable and average-looking, and rather fragile, perhaps a limp. He had a nervous breakdown on his 30th birthday (or close to it) and then suddenly became this muscelbound Adonis, Thor. I think his breakdown came because he found Mjolnir. It transformed him into Thor. It's never been about Thor. It's about Mjolnir.
Mjolnir is an alien artifact that contains the memories of a dead alien world.
In the Ultimate world, we've seen something like this already: Ultimate Nightmare. And we know that SHIELD knows of at least 11 alien species on Earth - perhaps this artifact is a remnant of one of them.
This hammer 'downloads' the memories of the civilisation into its weilder's mind - hence Thor's mental breakdown and his transformation. I think the meeting with Volstagg was Mjolnir talking to Thor, using the Volstagg character as a interface. This would explain Thor's visions, and it would explain Thor's battles with the serpent that appeared off-screen - because it never did happen. Only in Thor's mind.
Mjolnir seems quite capable of generating vast energy - maybe that bomb was just a nice meal? Remember, Thor just hit the bomb. It seems Mjolnir knew what to do with it.
There are many occassions when Mjolnir is referred to as an entity - Thor's first words involve him saying "if a demonstration from Mjolnir is what is required", and the storm starts without Thor doing anything. The hammer did it for him. When he flies, he throws the hammer to guide him. He's a pacifist with "a big, scary hammer". As for his telepathy, is it unlikely that Mjolnir can read information as it can project it? It simply read Banner and told Thor what was in his mind. And the warning from Volstagg? Maybe it just peeked into Fury's mind, (or Loki's ally) saw that Fury wants to dissect Thor's hammer and give it trained grunts and warned Thor in the only way it could.
It is possible Mjolnir is a giant information source; since Loki seems to be referred to as more of an apparition, than a physical being it could therefore easily read computer files. This would make his 'rewriting reality' even more appropriate - especially since if Loki is responsible for the leak, he's only attacked through information so far. And as for his ally, it would be someone equally intangible, which would most likely be - Ultron.
There is one other thing - if Mjolnir contains all of the Norse characters and worlds inside it, I think an appropriate name for it would be the Room With No Doors, wouldn't you?
And maybe the things inside it have become more powerful ever since a huge surge in Mjolnir's power, involving a very large bomb it consumed...
Personally, if Mjolnir is talking to and empowering Thor, I think Thor is both crazy and a god.
I hope I'm wrong and the real truth is far more insightful. I just can't wait until March 10th for my copy to end up in my hands.
There have been some great ideas here, things I hadn't noticed, and I've just read 8 pages of posts, so I apologise - but I can't remember who said what. So, I'll just go through my head as clearly and succinctly as possible.
Firstly, I'm really looking forward to Ultimate Galactus' arrival. Maybe all the super soldier projects have been attempts to find ways to create warriors to protect us from Galactus since SHIELD and other top-level institutions have been aware of his coming for quite some time. Perhaps Ultimate Galactus comes from the N-Zone (he's always supposed to come from the previous universe and maybe he destroyed the N-Zone, that's why its entropic).
Secondly, I've been thinking - is it unlikely that Ultron leaked the files (he is hooked up to Pym's files after all)? But I'm unsure as to who benefits from Banner's fate, and therefore, am not entirely convinced Ultron, Loki (or even his ally) was behind this fate - for Fury does benefit to some extent if I'm correct in my assumption that Ultimates 2 will end with SHIELD versus The Ultimates, with Captain America on the latter side.
But now to Thor: I'm very happy Thor is about to be unveiled. The reason is this: if Mark and Bryan left Ultimate Thor a mystery, a couple of years (or decades) down the road, some other guy would show up and give him his origin, and I personally, would prefer these guys to do it since y'know, they came up with this version of the character.
As for the Jesus metaphors - there are many, and of course, they're all appropriate (how many times does Thor appear with the sun behind him like he's an angel?). And I really think that #5 will end with Thor's crucifixtion (not necessarilly death, indeed he could survive but be unknown, foreshadowed in Banner's fate). I think that we are building up to Thor's act of martyrdom.
As for my idea, the set-up is below in italics, with the final sentence in bold - because that one sentence should make perfect sense, though I've still gone an included a follow-up analysis. I think that Millar's origin for Thor will be very succinct and when its revealed, it'll probably be a splash page with one sentence and we'll all slap our foreheads, jaws gawping, shouting "Of course!" If my idea below doesn't make sense to you, well then, I'm probably wrong.
In issue #2 I saw Nick Fury tell Tony Stark, "I'd rather have that hammer with us than against us" and it hit me - I've been thinking about Thor and not Mjolnir.
I don't think Fury has made this mistake - for him its always been about the hammer. He seems to have no respect for Thor, only for his hammer. He wants to not upset Thor's apple cart because he wants that damn hammer. So he can make more. Armies of super soldiers, and norse gods.
To understand Thor's origin, we must understand Mjolnir's. The SHIELD intel says that Thor was a normal man, probably very unremarkable and average-looking, and rather fragile, perhaps a limp. He had a nervous breakdown on his 30th birthday (or close to it) and then suddenly became this muscelbound Adonis, Thor. I think his breakdown came because he found Mjolnir. It transformed him into Thor. It's never been about Thor. It's about Mjolnir.
Mjolnir is an alien artifact that contains the memories of a dead alien world.
In the Ultimate world, we've seen something like this already: Ultimate Nightmare. And we know that SHIELD knows of at least 11 alien species on Earth - perhaps this artifact is a remnant of one of them.
This hammer 'downloads' the memories of the civilisation into its weilder's mind - hence Thor's mental breakdown and his transformation. I think the meeting with Volstagg was Mjolnir talking to Thor, using the Volstagg character as a interface. This would explain Thor's visions, and it would explain Thor's battles with the serpent that appeared off-screen - because it never did happen. Only in Thor's mind.
Mjolnir seems quite capable of generating vast energy - maybe that bomb was just a nice meal? Remember, Thor just hit the bomb. It seems Mjolnir knew what to do with it.
There are many occassions when Mjolnir is referred to as an entity - Thor's first words involve him saying "if a demonstration from Mjolnir is what is required", and the storm starts without Thor doing anything. The hammer did it for him. When he flies, he throws the hammer to guide him. He's a pacifist with "a big, scary hammer". As for his telepathy, is it unlikely that Mjolnir can read information as it can project it? It simply read Banner and told Thor what was in his mind. And the warning from Volstagg? Maybe it just peeked into Fury's mind, (or Loki's ally) saw that Fury wants to dissect Thor's hammer and give it trained grunts and warned Thor in the only way it could.
It is possible Mjolnir is a giant information source; since Loki seems to be referred to as more of an apparition, than a physical being it could therefore easily read computer files. This would make his 'rewriting reality' even more appropriate - especially since if Loki is responsible for the leak, he's only attacked through information so far. And as for his ally, it would be someone equally intangible, which would most likely be - Ultron.
There is one other thing - if Mjolnir contains all of the Norse characters and worlds inside it, I think an appropriate name for it would be the Room With No Doors, wouldn't you?
And maybe the things inside it have become more powerful ever since a huge surge in Mjolnir's power, involving a very large bomb it consumed...
Personally, if Mjolnir is talking to and empowering Thor, I think Thor is both crazy and a god.
I hope I'm wrong and the real truth is far more insightful. I just can't wait until March 10th for my copy to end up in my hands.
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Ice
Teh Sexy Monkey Queen
Wow....
WELCOME!
WELCOME!
TheManWithoutFear
#1 reason not to join UC
Bass, My head is spinning from reading all that. I dunno how much I agree or disagree with but that was some awesome insight eitherway.
Welcome. I hope you're a poster... :twisted:
Welcome. I hope you're a poster... :twisted:
