Ultimate Origins series discussion [Bendis/Guice] [spoilers]

Re: Ultimate Origins discussion (spoilers)

Zombipanda said:
I don't see anything, honestly. nothing of worth, at least.

Are we now judging stories, not based on their intrinsic value, but instead simply on whether or not they **** with continuity?

Because that's a sad state of affairs, yeah?
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In terms of myself and the Ultimate timeline, sort of.

But thats not the problem with this. The problem is it was billed as a series that would answer a bunch of questions that've been around since the beginning of the Ultimate universe.

We haven't gotten any of that. All we've gotten seems to be that Wolverine, Kingping, and Nick Fury are all really old and fought in WWII together. Then a bunch of random crap thrown in as padding.

"It's all connected..."? Maybe so, but they're the thinnest, flimsiest, weakest, used dental floss type of connections. Basically, so far the first three issues seem to have been pointless.

So, to answer your question, whether or not it messes with continuity doesn't matter. Whether or not its a worthwhile story does. This is not a worthwhile story (at least so far).

AnTwan said:
See that's my problem. When this was solicited the first time it seemed like it was going to be a really neat series that sort of tied everything together. I want to know how much was cut so that we could see the watcher ever ten minutes and stroke Jeph Loeb's ego by slapping "ULTIMATUM!!!1!ZOMG" at the top.
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Exactly.
 
Re: Ultimate Origins discussion (spoilers)

I'm actually really pleased with Magneto's non-WW2 related origin. This is just what I wanted to see out of the Ultimate Universe in the first place.
I'm just a little wary of the retarded Nick Fury and Kingpin crap.
 
Re: Ultimate Origins discussion (spoilers)

Ugh. Ultimate Carol Danvers is so obnoxious when written by Bendis.

I kind of like the first meeting between Chuck and Magneto, though.
 
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Re: Ultimate Origins discussion (spoilers)

I didn't like issue 3, any more than I did the first two.

Maybe I'm spoiled, being a fan of the early Millar UXM issues and their over-the-top nature. I was hoping we'd get some intelligent, memorable dialogue between the two on their first meeting, or at least an interesting event surrounding that meeting. Instead, Mags introduces himself, they learn Prof can't read Mags mind, and then we go to the Savage Land for a rehash of the Mutant City's beginning (which we've seen several times already in UXM, and even once in USM).

NOTHING worthwhile has happened yet.
 
Re: Ultimate Origins discussion (spoilers)

DIrishB said:
I didn't like issue 3, any more than I did the first two.

Maybe I'm spoiled, being a fan of the early Millar UXM issues and their over-the-top nature. I was hoping we'd get some intelligent, memorable dialogue between the two on their first meeting, or at least an interesting event surrounding that meeting. Instead, Mags introduces himself, they learn Prof can't read Mags mind, and then we go to the Savage Land for a rehash of the Mutant City's beginning (which we've seen several times already in UXM, and even once in USM).

NOTHING worthwhile has happened yet.
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And even Ultimates 3 I believe
 
Re: Ultimate Origins discussion (spoilers)

There's some great dialogue in #3 such as this gem:

Carol Danvers said:
Okay. I want it - I want it - I want what?
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I don't even know what that ****ing means.

Also, what's up with the dinosaurs in the Savage Land? Were they genetically engineered by Magneto, brought into reality by his daughter or were they always there?

**** the Ultimate Universe. I thought I would give it a chance by reading this but seriously. How can they **** it up so easily?
 
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Re: Ultimate Origins discussion (spoilers)

ProjectX2 said:
There's some great dialogue in #3 such as this gem:



I don't even know what that ****ing means.

Also, what's up with the dinosaurs in the Savage Land? Were they genetically engineered by Magneto, brought into reality by his daughter or were they always there?

**** the Ultimate Universe. I thought I would give it a chance by reading this but seriously. How can they **** it up so easily?
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It is amazing how bad the UU has gotten so quickly. Ult books have gone from the books I couldn't wait to read every month to absolute crap that I can't wait to drop from my pull list at the LCS.
 
Re: Ultimate Origins discussion (spoilers)

so let me see if i've got this striaght...
Xavier can't read Magneto's mind...except the whole reason he wore the helmet in Millar's run was so that Xavier wouldn't be able to read his mind. And when Quicksilver took his helmet off, not only did he project into his mind, but he made him forget who he was and live as a human.

There were dinosaurs in the savage land 16 years ago, even though Scarlet Witch made them appear just a few years ago.

Magneto and Charles set up their utopia in the savage land 16 years ago (not the first time they had been there) even though UXM #26 shows them showing up there and setting up their utopia 5 or six years ago, and Xavier acts like he isn't familiar with the place.

At the end of Return of the King (UXM #3o-something) Magneto says that Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch's mother was a woman named Isobel, a human that he despises. Then Wolverine says it was Magda, the witch of Wondegore ("a mere human") in Ultimates 3 #3, then Magda shows up as a mutant in the savage land in Ultimate Origins.

Well done
 
Re: Ultimate Origins discussion (spoilers)

captaincanuck65 said:
so let me see if i've got this striaght...
Xavier can't read Magneto's mind...except the whole reason he wore the helmet in Millar's run was so that Xavier wouldn't be able to read his mind. And when Quicksilver took his helmet off, not only did he project into his mind, but he made him forget who he was and live as a human.

There were dinosaurs in the savage land 16 years ago, even though Scarlet Witch made them appear just a few years ago.

Magneto and Charles set up their utopia in the savage land 16 years ago (not the first time they had been there) even though UXM #26 shows them showing up there and setting up their utopia 5 or six years ago, and Xavier acts like he isn't familiar with the place.

At the end of Return of the King (UXM #3o-something) Magneto says that Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch's mother was a woman named Isobel, a human that he despises. Then Wolverine says it was Magda, the witch of Wondegore ("a mere human") in Ultimates 3 #3, then Magda shows up as a mutant in the savage land in Ultimate Origins.

Well done
Click to expand...

Marvel just got owned.
 
Re: Ultimate Origins discussion (spoilers)

captaincanuck65 said:
so let me see if i've got this striaght...
Xavier can't read Magneto's mind...except the whole reason he wore the helmet in Millar's run was so that Xavier wouldn't be able to read his mind. And when Quicksilver took his helmet off, not only did he project into his mind, but he made him forget who he was and live as a human.

There were dinosaurs in the savage land 16 years ago, even though Scarlet Witch made them appear just a few years ago.

Magneto and Charles set up their utopia in the savage land 16 years ago (not the first time they had been there) even though UXM #26 shows them showing up there and setting up their utopia 5 or six years ago, and Xavier acts like he isn't familiar with the place.

At the end of Return of the King (UXM #3o-something) Magneto says that Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch's mother was a woman named Isobel, a human that he despises. Then Wolverine says it was Magda, the witch of Wondegore ("a mere human") in Ultimates 3 #3, then Magda shows up as a mutant in the savage land in Ultimate Origins.

Well done
Click to expand...

Well said, Canadian.
 
Re: Ultimate Origins discussion (spoilers)

captaincanuck65 said:
so let me see if i've got this striaght...
Xavier can't read Magneto's mind...except the whole reason he wore the helmet in Millar's run was so that Xavier wouldn't be able to read his mind. And when Quicksilver took his helmet off, not only did he project into his mind, but he made him forget who he was and live as a human.

There were dinosaurs in the savage land 16 years ago, even though Scarlet Witch made them appear just a few years ago.

Magneto and Charles set up their utopia in the savage land 16 years ago (not the first time they had been there) even though UXM #26 shows them showing up there and setting up their utopia 5 or six years ago, and Xavier acts like he isn't familiar with the place.

At the end of Return of the King (UXM #3o-something) Magneto says that Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch's mother was a woman named Isobel, a human that he despises. Then Wolverine says it was Magda, the witch of Wondegore ("a mere human") in Ultimates 3 #3, then Magda shows up as a mutant in the savage land in Ultimate Origins.

Well done
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Yup. Ultimate Origins should've been subtitled: The Ultimate Continuity Ender.
 
Re: Ultimate Origins discussion (spoilers)

Ultimate "Honestly We Planned This Eight Years Ago Really We Did Look At The Monkey"
 
Re: Ultimate Origins discussion (spoilers)

DIrishB said:
:lol:

A 12 part mini series, written by Bendis, Loeb, and a retarded clam.

Another step on the seemingly never-ending road to Ultimatum.
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be nice to JMS... he doesn't TRY to be a clam. :wink:
 
Re: Ultimate Origins discussion (spoilers)

Part of me hated Issue 3 because there were some parts that didn't fit into continuity (X not being able to read Magneto's mind even without the helmet, mostly)... but another part of me loved it, because honestly I didn't even think about that bit of canon-fodder (get it!) until I looked here. I think it was a pretty decent story, and I'm pretty interested to see what's going to become of all of these "Watchers" showing up all around the world. I figure they'll be much like the 616 Watchers, showing up to observe and not to participate. In that sense, I'm expecting some big cataclysmic event to happen in the UU, but I'm wondering why the Watchers didn't show up when Galactus came around.

All that being said, I really don't think Bendis is doing too bad of a job with this... and I don't say that very often these days. I am definitely expecting Loeb to take a giant dump all over it with Ultimatum, though, so in the end we'll all be scratching our heads and picketing the main offices of Marvel Comics because we feel ripped off.

Don't worry though, the light at the end of the tunnel is that Millar's coming back to the UU to fix the house he helped to build.
 
Another thing to add the wealth of "This doesn't make any ****ing sense":

So Magneto was raised in Weapon X. Wolverine is supposed to be the first mutant, yet somehow this transferred to Magneto before or when he became thirteen. Even though him becoming a mutant is considered a BAD THING by his parents. So it's doubtful they contaminated him. So how did he get his powers? Did Wolverine just 'spread' a mutant virus through the air? How come it didn't affect everyone? None of this makes any sense at all and it's #3. It's #3 of the series and it's already not connecting or making sense with something established in #1. Also, Magneto wasn't raised by holocaust victims nor was he in a concentration camp, something I'm pretty sure he said did happen. And he has a new power to see mutants use their power, which makes his growing paranoia that Xavier was reading his mind (and a key reason why they fell apart) make no sense. Not only can Xavier not read his mind (hence no reason for the paranoia), but Magneto could inherently tell if he was. (Read that again: Bendis makes the same continuity error TWICE in completely different fashions on the same damn page.)

That's how it is. You look at one plot hole, and it leads way to two more.

Perhaps it's the PLOT HOLES that are connected.
 
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Re: Ultimate Origins discussion (spoilers)

captaincanuck65 said:
so let me see if i've got this striaght...
Xavier can't read Magneto's mind...except the whole reason he wore the helmet in Millar's run was so that Xavier wouldn't be able to read his mind. And when Quicksilver took his helmet off, not only did he project into his mind, but he made him forget who he was and live as a human.

There were dinosaurs in the savage land 16 years ago, even though Scarlet Witch made them appear just a few years ago.

Magneto and Charles set up their utopia in the savage land 16 years ago (not the first time they had been there) even though UXM #26 shows them showing up there and setting up their utopia 5 or six years ago, and Xavier acts like he isn't familiar with the place.

At the end of Return of the King (UXM #3o-something) Magneto says that Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch's mother was a woman named Isobel, a human that he despises. Then Wolverine says it was Magda, the witch of Wondegore ("a mere human") in Ultimates 3 #3, then Magda shows up as a mutant in the savage land in Ultimate Origins.

Well done
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If you try, you can probably explain most of these with a few plausible (but not necessarily likely) explanations.

Xavier was unable to read Magneto's mind at first because he was inexperienced in reading mutant minds, in particular a mutant as powerful as Magneto. As he gets more experienced in the minds of mutants (perhaps with the help of some of the other telepaths) he learns how to read Magneto's mind.

Wolverine lied or was ill informed, it's hard to tell who we trust in the new series of Ultimates.

Magneto is showing Xavier a new part of the savage land, or possibly a "new" savage land.

Again Wolverine is not stating fact.

I know, a bit of a stretch, but there is no reason it couldn't be true.
 
Bass said:
Another thing to add the wealth of "This doesn't make any ****ing sense":

So Magneto was raised in Weapon X. Wolverine is supposed to be the first mutant, yet somehow this transferred to Magneto before or when he became thirteen. Even though him becoming a mutant is considered a BAD THING by his parents. So it's doubtful they contaminated him. So how did he get his powers? Did Wolverine just 'spread' a mutant virus through the air? How come it didn't affect everyone? None of this makes any sense at all and it's #3. It's #3 of the series and it's already not connecting or making sense with something established in #1. Also, Magneto wasn't raised by holocaust victims nor was he in a concentration camp, something I'm pretty sure he said did happen. And he has a new power to see mutants use their power, which makes his growing paranoia that Xavier was reading his mind (and a key reason why they fell apart) make no sense. Not only can Xavier not read his mind (hence no reason for the paranoia), but Magneto could inherently tell if he was. (Read that again: Bendis makes the same continuity error TWICE in completely different fashions on the same damn page.)

That's how it is. You look at one plot hole, and it leads way to two more.

Perhaps it's the PLOT HOLES that are connected.
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Bravo, Bass. That perfectly reviews the issue.

I'm worried they'll explain in Ultimatum the "Banshee" drug allowed Professor X to "amp" up his powers to the point he could read Magneto's mind? Or not...no, they probably won't even bother. Its weak anyway, and would depend on a ridiculously bad UXM arc (really, really bad, #93-97).

Jesus...I think Bendis does this ignoring continuity stuff on purpose. I know he writes a lot of books, but this is just pathetic.
 
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