Two words: TV Series.
Two words: TV Series.
Joe Kalicki
Well-Known Member
Because he wasn't even a commissioned officer at the time.
Spock saved the Earth too, and was already a Commander. He should have gotten the promotion.
Lynx
Well-Known Member
He also relived himself of command and wasn't acting captain.
Pike promoted Kirk to First Officer, as was his right. Spock gave command to Kirk. Kirk showed himself capable, so they rewarded him with his own command.
Yes, it's silly and contrived, but he's THE ******* KIRK!
DARKKNIGHT
Well-Known Member
Amen.
Bass
Nexus of the World
You're right. That's why they already used him. Nero is Khan. It's the same exact character. I watched WRATH OF KHAN yesterday with someone who doesn't know any Trek but has seen the new movie. Half way through Khan he asked, "So, did the new movie just write half a script and copy the rest from here?"
Nero = Khan without the intelligence or menace.
:arrgh:
Exactly. Kirk didn't have a uniform. It just makes no internal sense with the show. Starfleet is shown, in the show, to be heirarchical. Kirk gets suspended for cheating, and Pike makes a point it'll take him 8 years to be captain and 4 to even become an officer. It just doesn't make internal sense.
Precisely my point: If this movie was "Universe Walker" or something and wasn't Trek, no one would give a ****. It's one thing to have coincidence and contrivance in the beginning of your story - that's when things come together. That's why no one complains that the first thing Nero does is kill's Kirk's father. That's contrived, its coincidental, but it's the beginning of the story. You can do that. It's just basic story structure. However, the further into your story, unless you're doing an antiplot (and by that I mean WEEKEND or WAYNE'S WORLD or MONTY PYTHON AND THE HOLY GRAIL) you can't really just add coincidence throughout the movie. It's ridiculous by the time Scotty shows up, and the idea that Kirk gets promoted just because he's Kirk and it's his "destiny" is just contrived nonsense.
The movie relies on it being Trek so much... I want Scotty and Sulu and everyone involved... but dammit, I want it to make sense within itself.
It's just lazy writing. When writers abuse the concept of fate and destiny to have things happen 'just because', they're hacking it out.
Anyhow... did anyone else realise that if Sulu was a good pilot, everyone dies?
He saves everyone by being rubbish. Good ol, Sulu.
And Pike was actually really cool as well.
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Captain Canuck
The poster formerly known as captaincanuck65
i understand what you're saying, but Pike made Kirk 1st Officer b/c he knew that he had the potential to be great, he just needed the opportunity (which he probably would never get by going through the proper channels b/c Kirk doesn't do well working within the system.) He's a wild card in that way, and Pike said from the beginning that the Federation needed more of that. So he becomes first officer, then is exiled off the ship, then against all odds gets back on the ship (scientifically impossible since the math hadn't been discovered yet) and proves that a Vulcan is emotionally compromised, then saves earth and the rest of the federation. At the end of all this Pike gets promoted to Admiral. I would assume that off screen Pike spoke to the Federation tribunal or whatever that thing is and convinced them that Kirk's willingness to think outside of the box and never say die (or 'cheat') is exactly what saved billions of lives.
I would agree that going from academic suspension as a cadet still in the academy to captain of the fleet's flagship is a stretch, but I don't think it's fair to say it makes no sense at all.
Bass
Nexus of the World
It doesn't make sense. Kirk has a bar fight with four cadets, and is asked to join Starfleet. He cheats and is suspended. He then stows away on the flagship, tries to create mutiny, is jettisoned, stows away again, forces the Captain to recuse himself and then commandeers the ship.
If he didn't save Earth, he would be court-martialed and thrown in jail. He broke even.
Actually, what annoys me a lot, is how contrived it is. All this nonsensical structure and they hand wave it by going, "Oh, destiny, blah blah blah". Pike just opens so many doors for Kirk... and he doesn't deserve them.
I really liked Pine's Kirk, and Pike. I truly did. But the actual plot of what happens, is so unbelievably lazy, it's just... ugh. It winds me up.
Sulu left the hand brake on and inadvertently, saved the Federation. He's so bad as a pilot, he's actually brilliant!
Bass
Nexus of the World
Exactly my feelings. I don't have a binary feeling towards this movie. It's stupid AND awesome and neither cancels the other out.
I have the soundtrack and I've been humming the new theme tune to myself for ages.
I have the soundtrack and I've been humming the new theme tune to myself for ages.
Bass
Nexus of the World
Pegg was such fun!
ProjectX2
Don't expect me to take you with me when I go to s
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McCheese
Well-Known Member
I thought it was pretty darn good. 4 stars.
Anyone else see it in IMAX? I just saw it tonight, and it was phenomenal.
It was a little easier to process the concept of Spock going back in time and creating an alternate timeline the second time around. I didn't totally get it at first, but I think a big part of that was familiarity with the concept and seeing it (time travel/alternate realities) implemented so many different ways in comics.
At first, I agreed with the complaints (mainly by Bass) that it didnt' make any sense to have Kirk rise through the ranks to captain. But in watching it again, it really makes total sense. It was obvious from the bar fight scene at the beginning that Pike knew Kirk was something special. He saw an opportunity to bring that out, and he did.
Loved it. Seriously one of my favorite movies ever.
It was a little easier to process the concept of Spock going back in time and creating an alternate timeline the second time around. I didn't totally get it at first, but I think a big part of that was familiarity with the concept and seeing it (time travel/alternate realities) implemented so many different ways in comics.
At first, I agreed with the complaints (mainly by Bass) that it didnt' make any sense to have Kirk rise through the ranks to captain. But in watching it again, it really makes total sense. It was obvious from the bar fight scene at the beginning that Pike knew Kirk was something special. He saw an opportunity to bring that out, and he did.
Loved it. Seriously one of my favorite movies ever.
Bass
Nexus of the World
Nope. I'm guessin' it's just bigger.
Really? What was the 'something special' that Kirk demonstrated to be given Captaincy?
See, I think the reason you think it makes sense is because all the characters repeatedly say, "Kirk is supposed to be Captain of the Enterprise because he's awesome" and yet, Kirk never actually does the 'awesome' thing he's supposed to be capable of doing. The attack on the Romulan ship, while it was his idea to take the Enterprise to fight the ship (though it was Future Spock who told him to do it, and he accomplished it with a method that was more bureaucratic trickery than legendary leadership), the actual attack on the ship was Chekov's. And firing at a half-destroyed imploding ship that's trapped in a black hole, thereby endangering your own ship is rather stupid. It's false hype.
What did Pike "bring out" as you say that proves Kirk is a legendary captain? I honestly can't see it in the film, and you said you didn't but upon a second viewing you did. So what is it? I'm honestly asking. :?
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That seems to be a common misconception with IMAX. Yeah, it's bigger, but there's a whole lot more to the experience - the sound is fuller and more involved, and even the theater seats are arranged differently so that you're not staring at the back of someone's head.
Seriously? Pike stopped just short of begging him to join Star Fleet because his aptitude scores were so high, even before joining, and the inference was that they were abnormally high. But besides that, it was Kirk that identified, correctly, that they were warping into a trap - something that no one else - not Pike, not Spock - picked up on. Besides that, he beat Spock's training program - something no one had ever done before.
And I said what I didn't see the first time had nothing to do with Kirk's awesomeness - it was the explanation for how/why Spock time traveled and created an alternate reality.
Bass
Nexus of the World
Iiiiiiinteresting...
Again - Pike saying to Kirk, "You're really smart" doesn't mean he is. And while he did recognize the trap, if it wasn't for Sulu's ineptitude, he wouldn't have realised in time for it to make a difference. It was smart, but not, "You should lead the fleet" smart. And as for not Spock not noticing it... don't get me started on Spock's intelligence. *sigh* As for the Kobayashi-Maru - it was funny, it was smart, but it was also considered cheating (strangely, in Khan, Kirk got a commendation for it), which implied to me that his 'aptitude tests' were similarly cheated on.
Don't get me wrong - I thought Pine's Kirk was terrific, and he was entertaining, ballsy, and fun. I just don't think he was Neo Skywalker like the script makes him out to be. He was more like... Mal Reynolds. He's cool... but he's still small fry.
Really? Okay. So I misread that. Sorry.
What was confusing about the time travel that was cleared up? While I got the time travel first time round, I thought it was bizarrely shoe-horned in and not a good fit.
