Avengers New Avengers discussion (#1-20; spoilers)

Fredrik Martinsson · Oct 3, 2005

Jackie Estacado said:
isn't a 'ronin' a masterless, nameless ninja?

Almost.

From Wikipedia.org:

A ronin (Japanese: 浪人 rōnin: literally, wave man - one who is tossed about, like a wave in the sea) was a masterless samurai during the feudal period of Japan that lasted from 1185 to 1868. A samurai became masterless from the ruin or fall of his master, or after the loss of his master's favor or privilege. The term originated in the Nara and Heian periods, when it originally referred to serfs who had fled or deserted their master's land.

Traditionally in Japanese culture, ronin were generally somewhat disreputable; a target of humiliation or satire. Their code required the samurai to commit seppuku (a form of ritual suicide) when they lost their leaders, or else afterwards suffer shame.

Who the hell fits that description in 616? :?

ProjectX2 · Oct 3, 2005

Ultimate Warrior said:
Almost.

From Wikipedia.org:

A ronin (Japanese: 浪人 rōnin: literally, wave man - one who is tossed about, like a wave in the sea) was a masterless samurai during the feudal period of Japan that lasted from 1185 to 1868. A samurai became masterless from the ruin or fall of his master, or after the loss of his master's favor or privilege. The term originated in the Nara and Heian periods, when it originally referred to serfs who had fled or deserted their master's land.

Traditionally in Japanese culture, ronin were generally somewhat disreputable; a target of humiliation or satire. Their code required the samurai to commit seppuku (a form of ritual suicide) when they lost their leaders, or else afterwards suffer shame.

Who the hell fits that description in 616? :?

I betcha JQ thought Ronin was a cool name for a character only knowing it had something to do with samurais.

Jackie Estacado · Oct 3, 2005

Traditionally in Japanese culture, ronin were generally somewhat disreputable; a target of humiliation or satire. Their code required the samurai to commit seppuku (a form of ritual suicide) when they lost their leaders, or else afterwards suffer shame.

Who the hell fits that description in 616?

Well 'humiliation or satire' could directly relate to Matt, fallen from grace, ridiculed, gonna be arrested. Elektra also is the yin to Matt's yang, his opposite and equal and also answering to no one, yet selling her services to (almost) anyone. Agent Del Torro has also been sacked/quit, ridiculed as she couldn't arrest Matt and was head of the task force - seems we have a few people here, all potential Ronin's :wink:

marvelman · Oct 3, 2005

just wanted to say that Ronin better be a bad @ss character (for the identity) because what we saw in this issue was pretty awesome. This may be my new favorite bad a.ss in marvel comics.

compound · Oct 3, 2005

Ultimate Warrior said:
Almost.

From Wikipedia.org:

A ronin (Japanese: 浪人 rōnin: literally, wave man - one who is tossed about, like a wave in the sea) was a masterless samurai ... A samurai became masterless from the ruin or fall of his master, or after the loss of his master's favor or privilege ... it originally referred to serfs who had fled or deserted their master's land.

Traditionally in Japanese culture, ronin were generally somewhat disreputable; a target of humiliation or satire.

Who the hell fits that description in 616? :?

Let's consider a few possibilities...

the original Black Widow (Natasha Romanov)
- "masterless... after the loss of his master's favor or privilege"
- well, if you regard Fury as Natasha's "master" then... Hmmm...

White Tiger
- "serfs who had fled or deserted their master's land"
- in the latest issue of Daredevil,

Del Toro finally quits the FBI

Elektra
- "generally somewhat disreputable; a target of humiliation or satire"
- well, after the movie...

- no, seriously, I think being a killer-for-hire who sells allegiance to the highest bidder counts as "somewhat disreputable", don't ya think?
- "masterless from the ruin or fall of his master" --> Well, if you think about it, Elektra's two most recent "masters" (if you don't count 'money' itself) have been Nick Fury and Gorgon, both of whom have suffered a "ruin or fall" in the past few months
- even if you're a romantic/misogynist sop who believes Elektra's affections for Matt Murdock make him her 'true' master... well, let's just say that he's not exactly peachy-clean in the public's mind, right now

E · Oct 3, 2005

I love nothing more than when we break things down like that (seriously), buuuuut....

ProjectX2 said:
I betcha JQ thought Ronin was a cool name for a character only knowing it had something to do with samurais.

I think Proj nailed it.

Ice · Oct 3, 2005

JQ? Wouldn't it be Bendis? :?

compound · Oct 3, 2005

Jackie Estacado said:
did anyone else see Ronin's glowing green eyes?

I noticed it too, but I reached a very different conclusion...

Maybe Ronin is actually a powerless human on MGH

TheManWithoutFear · Oct 3, 2005

compound said:
I noticed it too, but I reached a very different conclusion...

Maybe Ronin is actually a powerless human on MGH

Damn you're good. MGH is dangerous to take and it would seem redundant since The Patriot is doing it.... hell, everyone's doing it.

Fuzzy Birds · Oct 11, 2005

Re: New Avengers series discussion (spoilers)

Just read the Sentry arc, and I liked it. I never thought I'd say this, but the book is exceeding my expectations. Despite the fact that it should be renamed the Bendis Avengers, the team actually works, and makes sense for the most part (I have no idea why Spider Woman is in this book, other than making up the female quota). I wasn't that clued up on the Sentry, but I still understood and enjoyed the arc. I must say, it's a bit of a strange direction to take him in, considering that it kinda goes against the original story, but I like the fact that he's basically psychologically unstable.

Plus, if McNiven came in food form, I'd eat him all up.

As for the first Ronin issue, have to say I'm really intrigued. Although I'd like to think otherwise, Bendis' predictability in the past (killing Gwen in USM when everyone expected it, making Harry Hobgoblin when everyone expected it, putting Pete with Kitty when everyone expected it) makes me think it's simply gonna be Elektra or DD.

GMaster · Oct 11, 2005

Re: New Avengers series discussion (spoilers)

I know who it is!

Superman!

Ultimate Quicksilver · Oct 11, 2005