Marvel Cinematic Universe - Timeline

[DIrishB]

The canon was just getting easy to sort through as to what was and was not official, but I've seen a couple of things brought up over the last month or so where some official word on the canon like we were getting before with the comics would really come in handy. Someone in the past seemed to have some good luck tweeting with some of Marvel's people, and they responded item by item stating whether a certain comic was canon or not.

In particular, these two comics:
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. #1 - The Chase
This comic never had any Marvel Cinematic Universe Official Tie-In red stamp, however reading this from the official Marvel site has always left me questioning why the comic did not have the stamp: "Together Lexus, Marvel and the team behind 'Marvel's Agents S.H.I.E.L.D.' collaborated to create a backstory to the TV series that has utter continuity with the show...". "Utter continuity."
Jessica Jones #1
From writer Bendis's blog: the comic "is in the marvel tv universe and it celebrates the new show and the connective tissue that will build between the series." The comic has the Marvel logo, the Netflix logo, the Daredevil and Jessica Jones logos....everything to make it look like it's meant to be part of the MCU canon. But it's missing the key red stamp that discerns canon from "inspired by".

As far as I know, the AoS The Chase and Jessica Jones comic are both MCU canon.

While they don't feature the MCU red stamp like the film preludes, it's important to point out that neither did the Infinity comics (Age of Ultron - This Sceptre'd Isle, Ant-Man - Scott Lang: Small Time), and yet those two Infinity comics are absolutely MCU canon.

It could be argued that really it's only the Prelude and Adaptations that feature the MCU red stamp, the ones released in comic form. The digital Infinity comics (the AoU-TSI, A-M-SL:ST) and TV-based comic expansions (AoS-The Chase, Jessica Jones) seem not to have that rule applied, but almost certainly are still MCU canon.

When the WHiH videos started coming out, more questions were raised as far as if these videos are considered canon, and if previous short videos set in the MCU were canon as well. The following is a list of everything I could find (mostly from a list compiled by /u/bflaminio on the /r/marvelstudios subreddit):
Stark Expo 74
Stark Expo 2010
Stark Expo 2010: AccuTech
Stark Expo 2010: Cordco
Stark Expo 2010: Fujikawa
Galaxy Getaways
Meet Darren Cross
WHiH Newsfront Promo
WHiH Newsfront Top Stories
WHiH EXCLUSIVE: 2012 VistaCorp break-in security footage involving cyber-criminal Scott Lang
WIRED Insider Interviews Darren Cross, CEO of Pym Technologies
WHiH EXCLUSIVE: Scott Lang Interview

I can see different sides to whether people think these are canon, or fit as canon, or work in some kind of head canon. What I'm really looking and hoping for in this post is to: a) gather in one place the comics and videos that I have seen most discussed as far as their canon goes; and b) look for anyone who works for Marvel or anyone who knows who to talk to at Marvel to clarify officially their canonicity. I think wyokid was talking with Will Corona Pilgrim about MCU canon back in 2012, and I believe Aztlan was also getting some responses as recently as 2014. In February of 2015 in a Comic Book Resources article, we once again saw Will Corona Pilgrim talk about "in canon" versus "inspired by".

I see those videos as canon. I honestly didn't know the various Iron Man 2-related ones existed, and forgot to add the GotG one. I'll get those added.

 

[Bob_A_Mickelson]

I personally have a hard time excepting the Iron Man stark expo videos. They are all explicitly 2010 pre im2. Based on the movie themselves 2011 fits better. Also one video references it's been developed for the past 8 months. This is not possible if im2 occurs 6 months after im1. Personally I'm an advocate of 2008 Iron Man. I feel that there's far more evidence to support 2008 versus 2010. Others will disagree I'm sure. My question is is there any reason why Iron Man 2, Thor, and Hulk cannot occur in 2010? If I'm remembering correctly 2011 is based off caps discovery in furys big week.

Thoughts?

 

[DIrishB]

I personally have a hard time excepting the Iron Man stark expo videos. They are all explicitly 2010 pre im2. Based on the movie themselves 2011 fits better. Also one video references it's been developed for the past 8 months. This is not possible if im2 occurs 6 months after im1. Personally I'm an advocate of 2008 Iron Man. I feel that there's far more evidence to support 2008 versus 2010. Others will disagree I'm sure. My question is is there any reason why Iron Man 2, Thor, and Hulk cannot occur in 2010? If I'm remembering correctly 2011 is based off caps discovery in furys big week.

Thoughts?

It's due to Avengers firmly taking place in May, 2012, and the line in that film that the events of Thor (and IM2 and IH by extension) occurred "last year".

Also, keep in mind moving up IM2, Thor, and IH to 2010, and thus Avengers to 2011, requires moving up everything by a year, and that causes a HUGE number of continuity problems both for the films and AoS.

 

[Bob_A_Mickelson]

Agreed. I'm personally not convinced the stark expo videos are cannon but to each their own.

 

[Zpdedoda]

I think they can be seen as deleted scenes. They are extra bits but not deemed necessary to the final film/tv shows

 

[Bob_A_Mickelson]

Sounds reasonable to me

 

[freshmaker]

As far as I know, the AoS The Chase and Jessica Jones comic are both MCU canon.
...
I see those videos as canon. I honestly didn't know the various Iron Man 2-related ones existed, and forgot to add the GotG one. I'll get those added.

Agreed. I'm personally not convinced the stark expo videos are cannon but to each their own.

I think they can be seen as deleted scenes. They are extra bits but not deemed necessary to the final film/tv shows

Again, I can see different sides to whether people think these comics and videos are or are not official canon. What I am really looking for is anyone who works for Marvel or anyone who knows who to talk to at Marvel to officially clarify their canonicity, like we had before with Will Corona Pilgrim.

While they don't feature the MCU red stamp like the film preludes, it's important to point out that neither did the Infinity comics (Age of Ultron - This Sceptre'd Isle, Ant-Man - Scott Lang: Small Time), and yet those two Infinity comics are absolutely MCU canon.

It could be argued that really it's only the Prelude and Adaptations that feature the MCU red stamp, the ones released in comic form. The digital Infinity comics (the AoU-TSI, A-M-SL:ST) and TV-based comic expansions (AoS-The Chase, Jessica Jones) seem not to have that rule applied, but almost certainly are still MCU canon.

(I know I'm not telling you or probably anyone else anything they don't already know, but to argue a different side, to put words to my thoughts, and to have a place where my thoughts are in one place so that I can go back later....). While the Infinite comics (Captain America: The Winter Soldier Infinite Comic, Guardians of the Galaxy Prequel - Dangerous Prey Infinite Comic, Avengers: Age of Ultron Prelude - This Sceptre'd Isle Infinite Comic, and Ant-Man - Scott Lang: Small Time Infinite Comic) all were published digitally without the red stamp, they were also later published in their respective TPB collected editions, which did include the red stamp. We can use common sense to know that the other reprinted (I'll call them) legacy comics are not anywhere close to being in the same universe as the MCU, so them being included in the red stamped TPBs does not make them Official MCU Tie-In comics. However, all of the Infinite comics that clearly take place in the MCU are republished in these red stamped collected editions, retroactively giving them red stamp status.

Not to mention, we have had a couple of instances of Creative Manager, Research & Development at Marvel Studios Will Corona Pilgrim specifically stating that MCU Infinite comics are Official Canon:

From Twitter:
@Aztlan1984: @willgrem Hello Mr. Pilgrim, can you light our lantern about CA:Homecoming, CA:TWS Infinite, GotG:Infinite? Are they MCU canon or Inspired?

@willgrem: @Aztlan1984 'Homecoming' = inspired, Infinite Comics are canon

AND

From Comic Book Resources:
CBR News: So the "Avengers: Age of Ultron Prelude - This Sceptre'd Isle" Infinite Comic you did with Baron Strucker is considered in canon?

Will Corona Pilgrim: Yes that's considered in canon. It's part of the wonderful timeline I mentioned earlier where we are spinning all these plates and trying to keep from dropping any of them.

-------------------------------------------------------
I'm hoping for some similar statements about Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. #1 - The Chase, Jessica Jones #1, and the short videos.

 

[DIrishB]

I think ultimately, the most important thing to remember is the film makers (and TV series producers/writers) likely don't pay anywhere near as much attention as we do to the timeline.

I think they realized early on the easiest approach was just to generally set the movies around the time they're released (the only exception being Iron Man 2 due to the retcon in Fury's Big Week that showed IM2, Thor, and IH all overlapped, though that was supported by the clips from IH seen in the Fury/Stark scene at the end of IM2, so maybe that was always the plan...?).

It's never going to be perfect, and there will be some things we'll have to just ignore or compromise on by making up our own explanations.

Again, I can see different sides to whether people think these comics and videos are or are not official canon. What I am really looking for is anyone who works for Marvel or anyone who knows who to talk to at Marvel to officially clarify their canonicity, like we had before with Will Corona Pilgrim.




(I know I'm not telling you or probably anyone else anything they don't already know, but to argue a different side, to put words to my thoughts, and to have a place where my thoughts are in one place so that I can go back later....). While the Infinite comics (Captain America: The Winter Soldier Infinite Comic, Guardians of the Galaxy Prequel - Dangerous Prey Infinite Comic, Avengers: Age of Ultron Prelude - This Sceptre'd Isle Infinite Comic, and Ant-Man - Scott Lang: Small Time Infinite Comic) all were published digitally without the red stamp, they were also later published in their respective TPB collected editions, which did include the red stamp. We can use common sense to know that the other reprinted (I'll call them) legacy comics are not anywhere close to being in the same universe as the MCU, so them being included in the red stamped TPBs does not make them Official MCU Tie-In comics. However, all of the Infinite comics that clearly take place in the MCU are republished in these red stamped collected editions, retroactively giving them red stamp status.

Not to mention, we have had a couple of instances of Creative Manager, Research & Development at Marvel Studios Will Corona Pilgrim specifically stating that MCU Infinite comics are Official Canon:

From Twitter:
@Aztlan1984: @willgrem Hello Mr. Pilgrim, can you light our lantern about CA:Homecoming, CA:TWS Infinite, GotG:Infinite? Are they MCU canon or Inspired?

@willgrem: @Aztlan1984 'Homecoming' = inspired, Infinite Comics are canon

AND

From Comic Book Resources:
CBR News: So the "Avengers: Age of Ultron Prelude - This Sceptre'd Isle" Infinite Comic you did with Baron Strucker is considered in canon?

Will Corona Pilgrim: Yes that's considered in canon. It's part of the wonderful timeline I mentioned earlier where we are spinning all these plates and trying to keep from dropping any of them.

-------------------------------------------------------
I'm hoping for some similar statements about Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. #1 - The Chase, Jessica Jones #1, and the short videos.

I'd recommend you try asking him about those on Twitter then.

 

[TalonCard]

Eh, maybe the Stark Expo 2010 was delayed till 2011.

How about those Jessica Jones teasers? They do seem to show actual--though brief--moments in her life, albeit a little more stylized in some than the series is likely to be.

TC

 

[Orphix]

It's really interesting. I wonder if we're close to approaching 'levels of canonicity' yet, what with all the various publications and media used?

Could end up going down the whole Holocron route in the future.

 

[Zpdedoda]

I think ultimately, the most important thing to remember is the film makers (and TV series producers/writers) likely don't pay anywhere near as much attention as we do to the timeline.

I think they realized early on the easiest approach was just to generally set the movies around the time they're released (the only exception being Iron Man 2 due to the retcon in Fury's Big Week that showed IM2, Thor, and IH all overlapped, though that was supported by the clips from IH seen in the Fury/Stark scene at the end of IM2, so maybe that was always the plan...?).

It's never going to be perfect, and there will be some things we'll have to just ignore or compromise on by making up our own explanations.

Yes, in making my own timeline edit I have deviated a little from your version especially when dealing with IM2/Hulk/Thor together, gone more from the Fury's Big Week timeline that exists rather than this one

 

[DIrishB]

Yes, in making my own timeline edit I have deviated a little from your version especially when dealing with IM2/Hulk/Thor together, gone more from the Fury's Big Week timeline that exists rather than this one

But... this timeline explicitly lays out the order of those three films based on the Fury's Big Week comic... not sure how yours differentiates but I held exactly to what was established in Fury's Big Week to break up, overlap, and place the events of IM2, Thor, and Incredible Hulk.

To each their own, but this timeline definitely takes everything from FBW into account.

 

[Zpdedoda]

But... this timeline explicitly lays out the order of those three films based on the Fury's Big Week comic... not sure how yours differentiates but I held exactly to what was established in Fury's Big Week to break up, overlap, and place the events of IM2, Thor, and Incredible Hulk.

To each their own, but this timeline definitely takes everything from FBW into account.

I'm purely going off the single timeline image that exists rather than the comics which I must admit I've never looked at so don't know what they say. The main conflicting information is the placement of the early events of Thor, his invasion of Jotunheim and his banishment.

 

[DIrishB]

I'm purely going off the single timeline image that exists rather than the comics which I must admit I've never looked at so don't know what they say. The main conflicting information is the placement of the early events of Thor, his invasion of Jotunheim and his banishment.

Yeah, but that "official" timeline has several inconsistencies with the dates seen in the films.

For one, as you said, it claims Earth was invaded by Jotunheim 1000 years ago, but we know it was more than that based on the film itself. The film explicitly says that occurs in 965 AD, so if it were only a thousand years before that would place Iron Man 1 in 1965... which doesn't work.

The events of Captain America crashing into the arctic occur in 1945, but the timeline would then have you think the events of Captain American (it's bookends sets in modern day) occurs 64 years before, which would place Iron Man in 2009.

It also claims the events of Iron Man last at least 9 months, even though the film itself explicitly shows only around 3-4 months have passed (he spent 3 months kidnapped by the Ten Rings, and a month or so developing and building the first couple armors, as shown in the first film).

There are a few other instances as well where it deviates from what's said in the films itself. That timeline was made just before Avengers released, and even at that time it contained those same errors.

 

[Zpdedoda]

Yeah, but that "official" timeline has several inconsistencies with the dates seen in the films.

As you said previously, the producers are terrible with keeping consistent and you just have to pretty much decide what to go with for yourself. The work you and the others have done on the full length timeline of everything is amazing but just for that little section I went with a different source, honestly more to make it flow better when viewing. There will never be a right answer, all you can do is justify your own answer

 

[SexySnorlax]

Mike Colter has confirmed when Luke Cage is set, in relation to Jessica Jones. It's not a year apart like they are being released

"I can tell you what they've allowed me to, which is basically, Luke Cage will take place a few months after Jessica Jones," Colter said. "So in real time, if you watch Jessica Jones, you'll find [at the end] Luke Cage uptown in Harlem, working, trying to make ends meet. Luke Cage really hasn't figured out what he's doing. He's tending bar, he's bouncing around. And for good reason, he's a fugitive, he has some skeletons in his closet

"He's trying to basically stay off the radar. The people he hangs around with, though, are in need. Ultimately, he'd rather be alone, but with the way he's equipped he does step up. That's what it's about, it's about finding that inner feeling to make you want to take action. Sometimes we just sit around, and sit on our hands and don't do anything because it's like 'hey, that's not my problem.' You can't do that when you're a superhero. You have these gifts, now use them."

Also, apparently the Civil War prelude is just adaptations of Iron Man 3 and The Winter Soldier (and probably eventually a Infinite Comic)

MARVEL'S CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR PRELUDE #1 & 2 (OF 4)

Will CORONA PILGRIM (W)

SZYMON KUDRANSKI (A)

THE ROAD TO CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR BEGINS WITH THESE OFFICIAL ADAPTATIONS OF THE SMASH HIT FILMS IRON MAN 3 & CAPTAIN AMERICA: WINTER SOLDIER!

• When THE MANDARIN strikes at the United States with a series of deadly terror attacks, IRON MAN must take action! But can TONY STARK handle the pressure when he has his own demons to face?

32 PGS. (each)/Rated T+ …$2.99 (each)

 

[DIrishB]

Mike Colter has confirmed when Luke Cage is set, in relation to Jessica Jones. It's not a year apart like they are being released

Yup, I'd seen that article. I'm just waiting for Jessica Jones to air so I can see if there are any indicators of time of year it occurs (like weather, clothing worn, etc), or even something more specific like a date seen on a phone, newspaper, etc. If so that'll allow me to zero in on a more exact placement for both JJ and LC. We'll see next month.

Also, apparently the Civil War prelude is just adaptations of Iron Man 3 and The Winter Soldier (and probably eventually a Infinite Comic)

Yeah, I'm waiting on those to come out so I can see how to split those up and insert them among the films. I still have to do the same with the Avengers adaptation, but its not a huge priority since its literally only adapting the existing film. I just need to break the issues up by page. I've added a tentative placement for them in the meantime.

 

[SexySnorlax]

Episode 5 of SHIELD is titled 4,722 Hours and ABC has released a synopsis

After her dramatic rescue from another planet, Simmons is still reeling from her ordeal and reveals how she had to fight for her life in a harsh new world.

Based on that, one could assume the title is how long Simmons was on the alien world. 4,722 hours is 196.75 days or 6.4 months, which is much longer than the 3 month gap the showrunners provided (unless there was a 3 month gap between episode 1 and episode 2 lol). (EDIT: I'm also 80% sure that they've mentioned in dialogue that Simmons has been gone roughly 6 months.)

Also, my two cents in the debate of the placement of SHIELD season 2 in relation to Daredevil is that the fact we have no reason to believe that election years (and dates) in the MCU are the same of ours and therefore we do not have any firm dates. Just like the Grand Prix Historique of Monaco. The all-winter comment by Talbot could just as easily refer to winter 2014-2015. With every episode back to back it would not be a stretch to believe that the entire season occurs in the months leading up to Ultron.

 

[DIrishB]

Episode 5 of SHIELD is titled 4,722 Hours and ABC has released a synopsis

Based on that, one could assume the title is how long Simmons was on the alien world. 4,722 hours is 196.75 days or 6.4 months, which is much longer than the 3 month gap the showrunners provided (unless there was a 3 month gap between episode 1 and episode 2 lol). (EDIT: I'm also 80% sure that they've mentioned in dialogue that Simmons has been gone roughly 6 months.)

Could be. However, its important to keep in mind the relativity of time. Meaning that while it may have been 6 months for Simmons, here on Earth only 3 months may have passed due to time dilation/relativity. Just a thought.

Also, my two cents in the debate of the placement of SHIELD season 2 in relation to Daredevil is that the fact we have no reason to believe that election years (and dates) in the MCU are the same of ours and therefore we do not have any firm dates. Just like the Grand Prix Historique of Monaco. The all-winter comment by Talbot could just as easily refer to winter 2014-2015. With every episode back to back it would not be a stretch to believe that the entire season occurs in the months leading up to Ultron.

This is also true, but I've generally taken the approach of assuming things are the same unless otherwise explicitly shown as different (like a date having a different date of the week, etc). So, we have no reason to really believe the election years are any different than our own, either.

This timeline stuff truly is mind-bending.


Anyway, regarding the AoS stuff, last night's episode features evidence of more "real-time" placement... at around the 0:05:33 mark into the episode, in the Allston, Massachusetts establishing shot, you can clearly see pumpkins and flowers in a display on the far left-hand side of the shot, and in the middle of the shot (before and after the red/maroon car drives by) a tree with harvest/corn stalk dressing. This clearly indicates harvest/Halloween time/setting, so I think its safe to place it in October. Given it occurs soon after Simmon's rescue (likely within a couple or few days) given the discussion of her physical and mental state, and measurements taken, her general demeanor, etc, I think its safe to say at most only a few days have passed at most.

So October seems to be when Season 3 picks up/begins.

Its thin, but all we have, really.

 

[SexySnorlax]

So October seems to be when Season 3 picks up/begins.

Its thin, but all we have, really.

If Ultron is early May, and S03 is late October that's almost 6 months