No. I hear you. But as the audience if we are told on SHIELD that Thanos is attacking, and we have seen Infinity War and we know
that his attack ends with a Snap
doesn't end with a snap
And spoil Avengers 4
Marvel Cinematic Universe - Timeline
- Thread starter DIrishB
- Start date
No. I hear you. But as the audience if we are told on SHIELD that Thanos is attacking, and we have seen Infinity War and we know
True, but there would be at least 16 episodes with characters missing due to the release of date of Avengers 4, that's a long time, so I'm not sure they would do it for that reason. Be interesting to see how it pans out
iammattie
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I said it a few pages back, but I really think Coulson gets snapped and will somehow be brought back movie side (with Captain Marvel having a post credits shot with him in the present) and I think the "16 episodes without certain characters" bit enhances that theory. Coulson's disappearance gives them the chance to let Daisy fill the director role in those 16 episodes and clears up Clark's schedule for anything Marvel may need on the movie front. I also think this is why the show has been giving us new characters this season, they probably plan to flesh out the season 6 main cast with newer faces while Coulson, and supposedly Mack and May all "die" as has been hinted at.
It's also possible that the show gets renewed, but held back for a year and/or with a reduced number of episodes which would allow for Avengers 4 to come out first and lay down a resolution to the
There would be another way of circumventing the issue, and this is crazy speculation on my part, but if
TC
snap business.
There would be another way of circumventing the issue, and this is crazy speculation on my part, but if
AoS Season 6 continued into their alternate shattered earth timeline, that would be one option. I'd love to see them sent back in time again to the 1970s so they could meet Agent Carter and the Patrick Warburton character from this season, but I'm not holding my breath for that.
TC
DIrishB
The Timeline Guy
But you have to also account for the perspective of the audience, who wouldn't understand that twist as it wouldn't be revealed until Avengers 4 a year away.
And IF there is a Season 6, its likely going to premiere in Fall, and run through to May, 2019 and Avengers 4's release, or a half season (which if it does get renewed seems more likely given its dwindling ratings), which would probably run from early 2019 to May.
Either way, the situation is the same, and its an odd one for the TV show audience if they take that approach.
Exactly.
But again, it creates a really odd and disconnected approach from the audience's perspective, as they're left wondering why the characters turned to ash (assuming some do, which is likely) at end of last season, suddenly and inexplicably are fine and ok again in season 6, leaving audience wondering how that is for entire season... just doesn't seem likely.
Again, exactly.
You're assuming those characters come back at all. Again, we don't even know if Season 6 will happen, and even if it does, the show doesn't necessarily HAVE to keep everyone around. For all we know Thanos snap could simply be the end of AoS altogether, in universe and actuality.
I think its entirely possible they'll utilize the time travel thing in A4, but I think you're overlooking the perspective aspect of time travel.
For one, the time travel hasn't happened yet, and won't until presumably Avengers 4. So, the focus in present timeline on Agents hasn't yet been altered due to the Avengers time traveling, because they haven't actually time traveled to the past yet, relatively speaking. So, the timeline hasn't been rewritten. The original timeline is still playing out. Therefore its highly likely they'll use the snap and disappearance as a season finale, and if Season 6 does happen I'm thinking it'll focus on the remaining agents (those who didn't ash out) dealing with the post snap world, where half the population is gone, possibly new threats emerging from Thanos' armies/minions, etc. Or something else entirely. Tough to predict.
DIrishB
The Timeline Guy
Solid theory.
Eh, its extremely unlikely they'll hold off on producing the show for a year. It's also unlikely they'd air it as a summer show (which it would kind of have to be to premiere after Avengers 4's release in May as you suggested).
It really depends on Avengers 4 and how long it picks up after Infinity War. Is it directly after? A few days or weeks or months? A full year to follow real time?
Will the film pick up a year later in the fallout of the snap with Tony already back on Earth (with a quick explanation of how him and Nebula got off Titan and him back to Earth)?
There are a lot of possibilities and without knowing those details it becomes even tougher to make any predictions about their intent for the (so far) Season 6. I genuinely have no clue where they're going to go from here, and that's genuinely exciting.
That would be fun, and actually carry over the subtle thematic crossover elements AoS Season 4 used with Doctor Strange's mystical aspects and Season 5 did with the cosmic elements of Ragnarok and Infinity War, so if Avengers 4 is utilizing elements of time travel, its entirely possible AoS may use that approach too.
This would make sense, but if they do reverse time to solve it, then a large part of the series would be spent developing characters over an arc only for them to go back and then not be aware that even happened. Would be entertaining for us, but in terms of development and character arc, a waste of time. If they go this route, I feel like Avengers 4 would be silly to solve it with time travel, they would have to bring the dead back another way
iammattie
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I'm not too terribly sure that it'll be time travel that fixes things. Imo that seems to be what everyone is thinking, but everyone also though cap and iron man were gonna die in Infinity War. Marvel is trying to keep us on our toes, and that's why I'm thinking the leaked set photod was actually from a reality simulation akin to what we see at the start of Civil War.
However If it is solved via time travel, the Netflix shows have it easy since they occur year before release typically and thus will never have to reference IW's events if they never happened. If there's no time travel at all, ooooh boy are those showrunners gonna have fun. We'll see.
Agents of SHIELD will be forced to get creative either way if it's picked up for a season 6. I'm thinking that perhaps it'll start around 2022/2023 since we already saw those flashback/flashforward scenarios and with word being that Scott Lang's daughter was recast older it'll keep it along with the film. If time travel does occur, this makes it so a large amount of character progression won't eve lost either, and I'd imagine they'll find a way for specific characters to keep memories if the timeline does revert.
Katalina Caine
New Member
In the comics, Thanos' snap is canceled by Adam Warlock's will with the gauntlet. They could use the same way. And time travel without time stone ??? How could it be ?
DIrishB
The Timeline Guy
So, having watched Agents of SHIELD 5x21, there doesn't seem to be any timeline problems.
First, this is the shot mentioned that had us thinking the show may have screwed up the timeline in relation to aligning with Infinity War.
Link: https://imgur.com/a/otztXzF
It was assumed this was dusk, but it doesn't necessarily HAVE to be. I propose to keep the timeline aligned (assuming no outdoor shots at night are utilized at that specific location in 5x22), that shot be viewed as very early morning, just as the sun is rising, and the scenes at Talbot's house occur within a half hour or so before, just after sunrise (even though the timing based on lighting seems later in morning, like 9-11am if I had to guess).
Link: https://imgur.com/a/uJuCiee
We can assume the base on Lake Ontario is at the western most point of Lake Ontario to still be within US border. If we figure the Lighthouse is somewhere in the black dot area on above map, and Talbot's residence somewhere in the red dot area in Virginia, and the blue line is the east to west distance, even though its in the same time zone, there is a possibility that east to west distance could be used to explain the difference in lighting for around same time of day. Perhaps when Talbot arrived at his house, his wife was in process of getting breakfast ready for their son offscreen? And unless it occurs on a weekend, he likely had to go to school that day since its still during school year. So, there's a certain logic to setting it in very early morning that can be used to explain the discrepancy.
Given we can't see the sun, and given the water seen is Lake Ontario, NOT the Atlantic Ocean, we have no way of knowing the exact direction that establishing shot is facing, other than north or northwest or west. And given the sun rises in the east, it would be rising likely behind where the camera is shooting from, or outside of shot to the right side of shot if facing north (which the shot backs up since the right side seems lighter than left). The moon in the sky could also be indicative of early morning as sun is just coming up as that happens all the time (it could be setting too, equally as likely in that moon scenario).
Its a bit of a stretch given the series of events in the show's latter portion would have to occur in a very small amount of time (say 10-15 minutes total), from scene where Yoyo and Mack discuss Talbot's motivations and likely that he was heading to his house (which occurs just before Talbot arrives at his house) to at least that establishing shot, but that's entirely possible.
Therefore I'd say AoS 5x21's entire episode occurs after the Scotland battle but before Cap, Widow, and the others arrive at Avengers HQ in the film.
Well Adam Warlock won't be in Avengers 4 according to the Russo brothers, and Gunn has said he will probably introduce him in Guardians of the Galaxy 3. Of course that could all be just misdirection to keep the fans guessing, so its definitely a possibility.
As for time travel without the Time Stone, the theory is that if it isn't a case of time travel (based on them behind the scenes shots of them recreating scenes from the first Avengers film), its Tony's BARF hologram system that we saw him use in Civil War, in that scene at MIT where he recreated that scene from when he was young and his parents were still alive. Its possible they're doing same for some reason but focusing on events of Avengers, but I think time travel with the Time Stone is a more likely possibility.
That said, using the Gauntlet its presumably equally as possible to revive/bring back everyone turned to ash by Thanos' snap, even without time travel. Just need another snap, I suppose?
First, this is the shot mentioned that had us thinking the show may have screwed up the timeline in relation to aligning with Infinity War.
Link: https://imgur.com/a/otztXzF
It was assumed this was dusk, but it doesn't necessarily HAVE to be. I propose to keep the timeline aligned (assuming no outdoor shots at night are utilized at that specific location in 5x22), that shot be viewed as very early morning, just as the sun is rising, and the scenes at Talbot's house occur within a half hour or so before, just after sunrise (even though the timing based on lighting seems later in morning, like 9-11am if I had to guess).
Link: https://imgur.com/a/uJuCiee
We can assume the base on Lake Ontario is at the western most point of Lake Ontario to still be within US border. If we figure the Lighthouse is somewhere in the black dot area on above map, and Talbot's residence somewhere in the red dot area in Virginia, and the blue line is the east to west distance, even though its in the same time zone, there is a possibility that east to west distance could be used to explain the difference in lighting for around same time of day. Perhaps when Talbot arrived at his house, his wife was in process of getting breakfast ready for their son offscreen? And unless it occurs on a weekend, he likely had to go to school that day since its still during school year. So, there's a certain logic to setting it in very early morning that can be used to explain the discrepancy.
Given we can't see the sun, and given the water seen is Lake Ontario, NOT the Atlantic Ocean, we have no way of knowing the exact direction that establishing shot is facing, other than north or northwest or west. And given the sun rises in the east, it would be rising likely behind where the camera is shooting from, or outside of shot to the right side of shot if facing north (which the shot backs up since the right side seems lighter than left). The moon in the sky could also be indicative of early morning as sun is just coming up as that happens all the time (it could be setting too, equally as likely in that moon scenario).
Its a bit of a stretch given the series of events in the show's latter portion would have to occur in a very small amount of time (say 10-15 minutes total), from scene where Yoyo and Mack discuss Talbot's motivations and likely that he was heading to his house (which occurs just before Talbot arrives at his house) to at least that establishing shot, but that's entirely possible.
Therefore I'd say AoS 5x21's entire episode occurs after the Scotland battle but before Cap, Widow, and the others arrive at Avengers HQ in the film.
Well Adam Warlock won't be in Avengers 4 according to the Russo brothers, and Gunn has said he will probably introduce him in Guardians of the Galaxy 3. Of course that could all be just misdirection to keep the fans guessing, so its definitely a possibility.
As for time travel without the Time Stone, the theory is that if it isn't a case of time travel (based on them behind the scenes shots of them recreating scenes from the first Avengers film), its Tony's BARF hologram system that we saw him use in Civil War, in that scene at MIT where he recreated that scene from when he was young and his parents were still alive. Its possible they're doing same for some reason but focusing on events of Avengers, but I think time travel with the Time Stone is a more likely possibility.
That said, using the Gauntlet its presumably equally as possible to revive/bring back everyone turned to ash by Thanos' snap, even without time travel. Just need another snap, I suppose?
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Katalina Caine
New Member
That said, using the Gauntlet its presumably equally as possible to revive/bring back everyone turned to ash by Thanos' snap, even without time travel. Just need another snap, I suppose?
Another snap to bring back everyone won't destroy any character development. I think it's a better choice.
Maybe, they found the time gem and use time travel to retrieve some gems at some moments they know where they were (easier to obtain mind and space stone in the time of avengers).
iammattie
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Looks like next episode still occurs early I. The day, so the dusk situation at the lighthouse is moot
https://youtu.be/BgHRl8xPnSE
https://youtu.be/BgHRl8xPnSE
DIrishB
The Timeline Guy
Agents of SHIELD gets a 13 Episode Season 6
No word on it if premieres in Fall or in early 2019, but I'd assume the latter to take advantage of potential Avengers 4 tie in.
No word on it if premieres in Fall or in early 2019, but I'd assume the latter to take advantage of potential Avengers 4 tie in.
selfishmisery
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Perfect. Now they won't have to "spoil" Avengers 4.
Alright guys, so, I emailed the guy who wrote that Marvel 101 book to ask about the Iron Man 3 timeline that he put at the top of the page (I just like to be thorough. And I wasn't exactly how much communication DK Publishing had with Marvel.) BUT, he responded today and the answer is pretty interesting.
"Thanks for your email. That is a great question!
To answer your first question, yes, Marvel Studios reviews and approves DK's books several times before they are printed, so the books are as official as it gets.
Interestingly enough though, I didn't actually write the little statement in the intro for Iron Man 3 that says most of the story takes place in 2012. That was added by the publisher and approved by Marvel Studios after I finished writing everything. So, I don't actually know the reasons behind it myself. It does seem like a long time span for the movie to cover.
I'm glad you enjoyed the book. Later this year DK will be publishing my next Marvel Studios book, the "Marvel Studios Visual Dictionary," which may also interest you.
Kind Regards,
Adam Bray"
So, I concede, as much as believe there to be evidence to the contrary, clearly Marvel wanted that included, thus that was their intent. As of now I agree that Iron Man 3 takes place in 2012.
(
"Thanks for your email. That is a great question!
To answer your first question, yes, Marvel Studios reviews and approves DK's books several times before they are printed, so the books are as official as it gets.
Interestingly enough though, I didn't actually write the little statement in the intro for Iron Man 3 that says most of the story takes place in 2012. That was added by the publisher and approved by Marvel Studios after I finished writing everything. So, I don't actually know the reasons behind it myself. It does seem like a long time span for the movie to cover.
I'm glad you enjoyed the book. Later this year DK will be publishing my next Marvel Studios book, the "Marvel Studios Visual Dictionary," which may also interest you.
Kind Regards,
Adam Bray"
So, I concede, as much as believe there to be evidence to the contrary, clearly Marvel wanted that included, thus that was their intent. As of now I agree that Iron Man 3 takes place in 2012.
(
Until Harley Keener shows up next year and tells us it happened in 2013 hahaah
eloesch289
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Has anyone seen the Wakanda tourism ads on the Black Panther extras? Any word on if they're canon?
A lot to reply to. This will look long but it's mainly just quoting what my responses are to.
Also, as DIrishB was saying about if it's a school day - it is. When Tony's in the sanctum, the flip-phone says it's Wednesday, so this is Thursday morning. So that works as well.
It's a bit tricky but it can be fudged a little bit. The Virginia number plates was a great spot. If it's more east Virginia, it's not impossible.
On Thursday, January 11th (the approximate date of the events):
•07:18 - Sunrise in east Virginia (using Norfolk, Virginia).
•07:41 - Sunrise at Lake Ontario, New York (using Rochester, New York).
So if the Talbot events are maybe 07:23-26ish. Then it would be about 441.757 miles, via the Quinjet would be 441.757/1611.27 = 00:16, plus a few more minutes to get up to top speed and slow down, so 00:20 maybe, they could be arriving by 07:46-47ish.
I like the Lucasfilm Story Group idea. Kevin Feige talked about that a bit here, with Marvel's new "Parliament", but that's more just the film division.
You're talking about mapping out the episodes against the film - I've already had a good crack at that in the post I linked from a few days ago. I know it's long, but a lot of it is just event descriptions. In italics is the reasoning and things, and then it's just copy-and-pasted into order at the bottom, so it's not as long a read as it seems. I haven't done Episode 21 notes yet, but will update it, however, it holds up post-Episode 21 as much as it did before. I hope it's helpful.
?
On the one hand:
•The episode was written to act, if necessary, as the whole show's final episode. It would be a bit weird if what they prepared as the potential final episode of the show ended in
. And never revisited.
•Just how divided Marvel films and TV are is unclear, and with Infinity War shrouded in so much secrecy, I always thought there's a good chance the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. showrunners didn't know about the ending.
•If they did know, that means the cast of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. knew a few months ago, which would be odd, considering the cast of the actual film weren't clear on plot details and the vibe every film cast member kept giving off was so in-the-dark.
•With Season 6 premiering after Avengers 4, they could, if they wanted to, just end this finale just before
, and then pick up in Season 6 after the resolution to
. But they more than likely didn't know the Season 6 status when writing this episode.
•With so much set to go on in this episode, it feels like a bit much to go through at the end.
•If they didn't know Season 6 was going to be late, then if they chose to do
in this episode, that would mean that they had made the conscious decision to follow that storyline through into a potential full Season 6. This would have meant (as I was thinking when assuming a Season 6 would have been 22 episodes September-May) that, like crafty100 pointed out, 16-20 episodes with only half the cast, and faffing around dealing with something that cannot be resolved until April/May 2019. And then there'd be the resolution itself. For the show to make the decision that it could advance past the end of Infinity War would have been a very bold move because what if it all gets reversed? They have about 18 episodes' worth of content just meaningless, and then S6E19 picks up as if the previous 18 episodes never happened? What if they don't know what happens in Avengers 4, which is a very strong possibility? Granted, we now know that if they were to do
in this episode, they would only be catching up with Infinity War and wouldn't have to get any further until Avengers 4 has already come out, but did they know that?
•If they did
as the finale but then just picked up in Season 6 with it resolved post-Avengers 4, that'd also be a weird resolution to a season-ending cliffhanger.
•The
effect itself is apparently a very hard effect to do, and I doubt Marvel films are allowed to just lend the template to Marvel TV. They'd have to replicate it exactly, and have known exactly how it was going to look ahead of time to prepare the effect.
On the other hand:
•They're less than 3 hours out from
. Theoretically, assuming there some sort of working together to line up the timelines, they would have to catch up. I can't see the events of this finale taking less than 3 hours.
•They went out of their way to set these last 4 episodes concurrently with Infinity War. While, yes, they might have just felt that the fans were expecting a tie-in and they couldn't disappoint, they didn't need to. They had themselves placed in January 2018 and Infinity War seemed more like spring, they could have given it a wide berth, but they chose to reference the events. Surely in referencing the events they had some confidence about how those events were going down and how they'd affect their show?
•There's the possibility of reshoots/additional shooting, I guess. I don't know how easy that is. And I don't know when they found out they got a Season 6, but if it was like 2+ weeks ago, they could've had time to go, "Oh we can do a cliffhanger then," and change the ending.
Also, I think there's a very good chance some time stuff is involved in Avengers 4, but the The Avengers set photos were all-but confirmed as B.A.R.F.. B.A.R.F. props were spotted on the same set, and the Russos, when asked about filming those scenes, basically said something to the effect of, "We don't want people to think it is time travel only to be let down. It's not time travel. All we will actually say is that there's something we put in a scene in Civil War that will come back and be more important in this film. The fans can probably work it out." The events of Infinity War have now made me realise that there's actually a possibility of the Russos lying - they lied over a few things on Infinity War - but I'm inclined to believe this case.
I think whatever the
resolution is, it won't be a simple time reversal like one might expect. They'll find something interesting and surprising.
The fact that it's 13 episodes when the rest has been 22 is not particularly comfortable with my OCD XD and I'm a little bit uncomfortable as well because this Season 5 finale was apparently written to function as the show's final episode, for if that were to be the case - and that makes me think that a continuation might be awkward and that the show's actual final episode, whenever that comes, might not end up being as satisfying. Plus, with it not airing until presumably May-July, starting around the time the season would usually end - it's a whole year with no Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.. And possibly a whole new season of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. without Coulson, if he's going to die. It just feels a bit odd.
But oh well, minor things (and I'm sure they'll sort it), I'm glad that it's renewed, I really like the show and care about the characters.
When the 13 episodes was announced, I thought it might be that they take the September-December for New Warriors and then January/February/March-May for Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., but summer. Interesting. Maybe it'll reach new viewers.
Harley being announced for Avengers 4 was a bit surprising, I thought. Wasn't expecting a return.
Ty Simpkins was about 11y0m old during filming for Iron Man 3, suggesting Harley would have been born around December 2001-ish. He was about 16y2m old during filming for Avengers 4, which would suggest the film is only set around early 2018. Obviously that's not really evidence for the exact dating of the films because his age doesn't matter that much, to the point where you get a couple of years' leeway - but my point is that it would suggest Avengers 4 is set just after Infinity War, and not several years later like the Cassie rumour might suggest.
Also guys, Marvel released some official stills, which included one from the credits scene with the 10:24 visible, for you guys who didn't catch it in the film.
Phew, big catch-up done.
Thank you! I'm pretty passionate about the timeline, hope to help wherever I can.
While it's pretty obvious now, AoS show runner confirms the last four episodes parallel IW fully, covering the 24 hour period or so of the film, more or less, and confirming our theory.
http://tvline.com/2018/05/11/agents-of-shield-recap-season-5-episode-21-save-coulson-or-save-world/
Nope, just one day, see link at beginning of my novel length post.
Jed Whedon confirms the final four episodes cover around a 24 hour period paralleling Infinity War. You should see people start disappearing at end of next week's season finale... presumably. I mean they sort of have to. They went out of their way to mention Thanos and events of attack on New York, and while I haven't watched last night's episode yet, the preview for it from end of last week's episode indicated this episode picked up soon after previous one, likely in morning or midday Eastern time (I think Talbot's family lives in Virginia but could be wrong), before Thanos' army arrives and the battle in Wakanda begins. Probably around same time, or soon after, the Avengers HQ scene with Rhodes and Ross. And presumably next week's final episode will parallel that battle in Wakanda and the battle between Thanos and various characters on Titan, and end with some of the agents turning dust.
I think the shot I attached is the one you are referring to, and if that it is the case it looks to me to be more dawn than dusk. And if they arrive at dawn, I know what you're thinking, the sun was already up for Mack and Yo Yo, how could it be dawn? Thanks for asking, me. Probably becauseSo, honestly it's probably just a bit out of order for pacing purposes I would look at it asThematically they wanted there not to be a bridge between Coulson fainting and the cliffhanger endingThat's just what I'm thinkin'. Plus,I'm not entirely sure what else the Candyman would be talking about. He references aliens in New York..that just feels really...specific.Mack and YoYo leave to get Talbot--Deke and May make it back (Mack YoYo not shown)--Daisy and Coulson land (I assume they pass him off to FitSimmons to stabilize him and run tests--May comes in to check on him--Simultaneously to the tests being performed Mack and YoYo have their encounter with Talbot around 6 or 7ish (Totally spotted Virginia license plates in that scene, so good call whoever said that's where the Talbot's live)--(This is complete assumption) Some one picks up Mack and YoYo from Virginia (due to the fact that their vehicles are destroyed and Davis has the plane--When those two return to base everyone has the discussion on what to do about Coulson and Talbot
[/URL][/IMG]
Yup, was just about to mention that. I'm still watching episode, but at the 17:15 mark the security camera footage shows it as 23:24:06:19, so 11:24 PM, which corresponds to the fact no outdoor shots are utilized in the episode so far until that point (just interiors on the space ship, bus, Lighthouse, and hospital so far), so that checks out and works. I'll see if there's anything of note later in the episode.
And your reasoning is sound. Hopefully it all ends up working out without a hitch.
Yeah, like I said I think Jed basically indirectly admitted they fudged up the timeline some in that quote confirming it occurs over a 24 hour period. I just think they screwed up the day/night cycle/time of day in regards to that ending dusk shot you mentioned and the time zone factor in relation to the apparent time of day in Wakanda. Thats likely just an unfortunate side effect of aligning the TV show with the film's events, which is hard to pin down since the film is still in editing process and having final touches put on it at the time these episodes were likely written/filmed (probably 3 months back or so, maybe sooner, not sure of the production schedule but the specifics aren't important anyway). That disconnect between the films and TV side is largely inevitable and necessary due to the fact the films change during production, right up to late production, reshoots, and edits, which can sometimes drastically alter a film (Ron Howard reshooting 70% of Solo is a good example), or even in a minor way in terms of how it affects the finished product. The number of days that pass in IW could've been altered from 2 to around 1 in editing process, if perhaps it was originally intended as 2 in original script (perhaps Russos wanted to tighten the timeline up to instill a more apparent sense of urgency?). And the AoS writers may have been going off the shooting script, and not been informed of the change in the editing process. The number of moving parts on all the different productions going on at any one time in the MCU is massive at this point, so mistakes and disconnect and lack of perfect symmetry is to be expected.
Its kind of why I hope Marvel Studios hires a team similar to Lucasfilm's Story Group who keep continuity all in check, but also all the various working parts to ensure plot synergy and merchandising/advertising aspects. And don't forget, the MCU is significantly larger than the rebooted SW universe, so there's more ground to cover and keep track of. Who can monitor all the various productions and ensure they all fit into the puzzle correctly.
We'll see if we can't come up with a workable solution, and if not then we can perhaps chalk it up to timeline shenanigans of the Time Stone... though that would mean the Titan battle when Thanos finally obtains it would have to occur beforehand... which I don't think works either.
So, having watched Agents of SHIELD 5x21, there doesn't seem to be any timeline problems.
First, this is the shot mentioned that had us thinking the show may have screwed up the timeline in relation to aligning with Infinity War.
Link: https://imgur.com/a/otztXzF
It was assumed this was dusk, but it doesn't necessarily HAVE to be. I propose to keep the timeline aligned (assuming no outdoor shots at night are utilized at that specific location in 5x22), that shot be viewed as very early morning, just as the sun is rising, and the scenes at Talbot's house occur within a half hour or so before, just after sunrise (even though the timing based on lighting seems later in morning, like 9-11am if I had to guess).
Link: https://imgur.com/a/uJuCiee
We can assume the base on Lake Ontario is at the western most point of Lake Ontario to still be within US border. If we figure the Lighthouse is somewhere in the black dot area on above map, and Talbot's residence somewhere in the red dot area in Virginia, and the blue line is the east to west distance, even though its in the same time zone, there is a possibility that east to west distance could be used to explain the difference in lighting for around same time of day. Perhaps when Talbot arrived at his house, his wife was in process of getting breakfast ready for their son offscreen? And unless it occurs on a weekend, he likely had to go to school that day since its still during school year. So, there's a certain logic to setting it in very early morning that can be used to explain the discrepancy.
Given we can't see the sun, and given the water seen is Lake Ontario, NOT the Atlantic Ocean, we have no way of knowing the exact direction that establishing shot is facing, other than north or northwest or west. And given the sun rises in the east, it would be rising likely behind where the camera is shooting from, or outside of shot to the right side of shot if facing north (which the shot backs up since the right side seems lighter than left). The moon in the sky could also be indicative of early morning as sun is just coming up as that happens all the time (it could be setting too, equally as likely in that moon scenario).
Its a bit of a stretch given the series of events in the show's latter portion would have to occur in a very small amount of time (say 10-15 minutes total), from scene where Yoyo and Mack discuss Talbot's motivations and likely that he was heading to his house (which occurs just before Talbot arrives at his house) to at least that establishing shot, but that's entirely possible.
I definitely think it should be dawn, not dusk. It just doesn't make much sense for it to be dusk, for both the film and the episode's time spans. It would stretch the Infinity War events, which would be very difficult, stretch the episode's events, which would be weird, stretch the next episode's daytime events into the next day, which would probably not work very well, and with Whedon saying how Episodes 19-22 take place over about 24 hours, again, it only makes sense for it to be dawn. Plus I feel like the Moon would only be still visible at dawn, not already visible at dusk.
Also, as DIrishB was saying about if it's a school day - it is. When Tony's in the sanctum, the flip-phone says it's Wednesday, so this is Thursday morning. So that works as well.
It's a bit tricky but it can be fudged a little bit. The Virginia number plates was a great spot. If it's more east Virginia, it's not impossible.
On Thursday, January 11th (the approximate date of the events):
•07:18 - Sunrise in east Virginia (using Norfolk, Virginia).
•07:41 - Sunrise at Lake Ontario, New York (using Rochester, New York).
So if the Talbot events are maybe 07:23-26ish. Then it would be about 441.757 miles, via the Quinjet would be 441.757/1611.27 = 00:16, plus a few more minutes to get up to top speed and slow down, so 00:20 maybe, they could be arriving by 07:46-47ish.
I like the Lucasfilm Story Group idea. Kevin Feige talked about that a bit here, with Marvel's new "Parliament", but that's more just the film division.
Didn't realise the spoiler tags caused problems. That was one option I explored, but...:
No doubt, but remember Occam's razor ("In a case of two competing explanations for an occurrence, the simpler one is usually better and the more likely. Another way of saying it is that the more assumptions you have to make, the more unlikely an explanation is.").
I discussed on my post the other day here, but the New Avengers Facility scene is problematic. It should be set at nighttime, because there's no way they can be arriving at the facility in the morning and to have flown to Wakanda and all the Wakanda events to have occurred, all before 10:24. It doesn't really work as the evening before, but it works better. As things stand, and I work through it all in that post, I would say the facility scene is the afternoon mere hours after the attack in New York. Which matches what you're saying DIrishB about the fact that they would go straight back to the New Avengers Facility and not delay for several hours for no particular reason.
You're talking about mapping out the episodes against the film - I've already had a good crack at that in the post I linked from a few days ago. I know it's long, but a lot of it is just event descriptions. In italics is the reasoning and things, and then it's just copy-and-pasted into order at the bottom, so it's not as long a read as it seems. I haven't done Episode 21 notes yet, but will update it, however, it holds up post-Episode 21 as much as it did before. I hope it's helpful.
Yeah, the Lighthouse location is Lake Ontario New York. I think it was the postcard from the first half of the season that showed it was Lake Ontario, and in Episode 11 - All the Comforts of Home, Noah's computer specifically shows "River's End, N.Y." and they talk about the Asgardian in the city - New York City.
This is the debate I've been mentally having for a couple of weeks now. Will the show doWell Adam Warlock won't be in Avengers 4 according to the Russo brothers, and Gunn has said he will probably introduce him in Guardians of the Galaxy 3. Of course that could all be just misdirection to keep the fans guessing, so its definitely a possibility.
As for time travel without the Time Stone, the theory is that if it isn't a case of time travel (based on them behind the scenes shots of them recreating scenes from the first Avengers film), its Tony's BARF hologram system that we saw him use in Civil War, in that scene at MIT where he recreated that scene from when he was young and his parents were still alive. Its possible they're doing same for some reason but focusing on events of Avengers, but I think time travel with the Time Stone is a more likely possibility.
That said, using the Gauntlet its presumably equally as possible to revive/bring back everyone turned to ash by Thanos' snap, even without time travel. Just need another snap, I suppose?
the snap
On the one hand:
•The episode was written to act, if necessary, as the whole show's final episode. It would be a bit weird if what they prepared as the potential final episode of the show ended in
half of the characters just spontaneously dying. Not sacrificing themselves or anything, just... dying
•Just how divided Marvel films and TV are is unclear, and with Infinity War shrouded in so much secrecy, I always thought there's a good chance the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. showrunners didn't know about the ending.
•If they did know, that means the cast of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. knew a few months ago, which would be odd, considering the cast of the actual film weren't clear on plot details and the vibe every film cast member kept giving off was so in-the-dark.
•With Season 6 premiering after Avengers 4, they could, if they wanted to, just end this finale just before
the snap
the snap
•With so much set to go on in this episode, it feels like a bit much to go through at the end.
•If they didn't know Season 6 was going to be late, then if they chose to do
the snap
the snap
•If they did
the snap
•The
ash/fading
On the other hand:
•They're less than 3 hours out from
the snap
•They went out of their way to set these last 4 episodes concurrently with Infinity War. While, yes, they might have just felt that the fans were expecting a tie-in and they couldn't disappoint, they didn't need to. They had themselves placed in January 2018 and Infinity War seemed more like spring, they could have given it a wide berth, but they chose to reference the events. Surely in referencing the events they had some confidence about how those events were going down and how they'd affect their show?
•There's the possibility of reshoots/additional shooting, I guess. I don't know how easy that is. And I don't know when they found out they got a Season 6, but if it was like 2+ weeks ago, they could've had time to go, "Oh we can do a cliffhanger then," and change the ending.
Also, I think there's a very good chance some time stuff is involved in Avengers 4, but the The Avengers set photos were all-but confirmed as B.A.R.F.. B.A.R.F. props were spotted on the same set, and the Russos, when asked about filming those scenes, basically said something to the effect of, "We don't want people to think it is time travel only to be let down. It's not time travel. All we will actually say is that there's something we put in a scene in Civil War that will come back and be more important in this film. The fans can probably work it out." The events of Infinity War have now made me realise that there's actually a possibility of the Russos lying - they lied over a few things on Infinity War - but I'm inclined to believe this case.
I think whatever the
snap
Excited for it. It's about 3 or 4 times now that the show has survived people counting it out and declaring it all-but-dead. It keeps on surviving, and it's a really good show, at least most of the time. I'm really glad it's been renewed.
The fact that it's 13 episodes when the rest has been 22 is not particularly comfortable with my OCD XD and I'm a little bit uncomfortable as well because this Season 5 finale was apparently written to function as the show's final episode, for if that were to be the case - and that makes me think that a continuation might be awkward and that the show's actual final episode, whenever that comes, might not end up being as satisfying. Plus, with it not airing until presumably May-July, starting around the time the season would usually end - it's a whole year with no Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.. And possibly a whole new season of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. without Coulson, if he's going to die. It just feels a bit odd.
But oh well, minor things (and I'm sure they'll sort it), I'm glad that it's renewed, I really like the show and care about the characters.
When the 13 episodes was announced, I thought it might be that they take the September-December for New Warriors and then January/February/March-May for Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., but summer. Interesting. Maybe it'll reach new viewers.
Thanks for checking that! I do wonder if the book has any other dates. I will try to find it (not going to buy, but might have a flick through in a book shop).
Harley being announced for Avengers 4 was a bit surprising, I thought. Wasn't expecting a return.
Ty Simpkins was about 11y0m old during filming for Iron Man 3, suggesting Harley would have been born around December 2001-ish. He was about 16y2m old during filming for Avengers 4, which would suggest the film is only set around early 2018. Obviously that's not really evidence for the exact dating of the films because his age doesn't matter that much, to the point where you get a couple of years' leeway - but my point is that it would suggest Avengers 4 is set just after Infinity War, and not several years later like the Cassie rumour might suggest.
Also guys, Marvel released some official stills, which included one from the credits scene with the 10:24 visible, for you guys who didn't catch it in the film.
Phew, big catch-up done.
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https://www.newsarama.com/40003-phi...ewbie-in-captain-marvel-says-clark-gregg.html
Excited for this, maybe it will give some insight as to what side of the 90's Coulson and May's encounter with the Superior falls on
Excited for this, maybe it will give some insight as to what side of the 90's Coulson and May's encounter with the Superior falls on
selfishmisery
Well-Known Member
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- Aug 1, 2014
- Messages
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No one turns to dust in the AoS finale. I'm guessing the season ends right before the snap happens.
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