So after tonight I'd say Trump, if not a Trump analogue, won the 2016 election. That's like the millionth reference to the current administration in AOS.
Was it stated the Ross was still Secretary of State? Or is he just an Avengers liaison in another position? I noticed he had his same aid from Civil War.
While it's not totally unprecedented, it's EXTREMELY rare in the past 100 years even for a presidential cabinet head to stay on through a change in leadership. Nothing you can't explain away, just pointing it out.
I can't remember, but I THINK Rhodes referred to him as Mr. Secretary, but could be misremembering. That is a good point about the admin change, but I suppose it could be explained away as a Trump-like analogue seeing value in Ross' war hawk tendencies and approaches.
I think it was ment to be reference to IW, but if that doesn't work for timeline, it's vague enough to just ignore or pretend it's about one of Defenders shows. I haven't seen most recent of Netflix stuff yet, but there's always something going on in NY in MCU.
It's definitely a reference to Infinity War. Episode that aired the day it came out making that reference is intentional synergy with same subtle approach as past couple seasons.
That said, I'm not ready to place IW in January, 2018, as the New York set scenes in the film are clearly occurring sometime when the weather is spring or summer like. I think best compromise is to place it in March, and stretch out/add a bit more time after Yo-Yo's surgeries and recuperation time (which makes sense, as squeezing it all into only a month or so doesn't allow enough recovery time or time for them to integrate the tech with her biology. So, I'm going to just space those episodes out more.
That said, my external hard drive just crapped out so I lost all the episodes I had saved, so if someone could provide best spot to put those spaces I'd appreciate it. I'm thinking after 5x13 we could put a break of a month or so to allow for the cold weather seen in one of those episodes (can't remember off top of my head but I'd mentioned it on the thread a few pages back), and allow a progression into March.
There is a potential problem brewing, though. If this episode occurs during first half/first day of the IW film, then likely the next episode will occur on the second day, when Thanos
snaps his fingers and wipes half the population from existence... if none of the agents disappear into clouds of ash
there's going to be a serious continuity gaffe/problem.
I think it's almost certainly not going to work as an Infinity War tie-in. It could refer to anything really - it could just be referring to the Marauders at Lake Ontario, since that's New York. I don't think the writers knew what happens in Infinity War, and they thought they'd have a guess and just mention something happening in New York, as is evident from the trailers. In December, they actually said there would be no crossover - although granted, at the time they thought their season would be done before Infinity War, as is clear in the interview. But yeah, it's very vague, and technically the Marauders in the episode arriving at Lake Ontario are arriving in New York, you could just say it's referring to that - although they mention that River's End has been cut off technologically, so it wouldn't entirely work. I see no way that with 3 episodes to go in the season, they suddenly deal with the massive repercussions of Infinity War, and it would be very weird if anything got past Infinity War in the timeline until Avengers 4 comes out, because
of the massive, universe-changing cliffhanger. The only way I can see things passing Avengers 4 is if there is some sort of time stuff going on in Avengers 4 that means after that film's events, no one in the universe will remember the time half of the universe was wiped out and everything's back to normal as if nothing happened, meaning technically Infinity War could slot in anywhere.
There's no easy way to get Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. later than January.
*Episode 12 - "12-06-2017".
-Possible gap, but not particularly long-
*Episode 13 - A small amount of time after Episode 12. Not defined, but Fitz and Simmons "just" got married and other dialogue and actions suggest it's only been a few days.
-Possible gap, but not particularly long-
*Day 1
**Episode 14 - A small amount of time after Episode 13. Not defined, but the team are still trying to desperately plug the rift. Seems like merely days since Episodes 11 and 12, but it has to be at least 4 weeks since Yo-Yo got her arms cut off, because her arm stumps have healed over. I did some googling, and apparently with good surgery - which we saw her getting - it takes at least 4 weeks to heal over. But it does not seem like it can have been much more than 4 weeks because it gives a sense of only being days. With Yo-Yo's arms being cut off the evening of December 4, 2017, that would make this at least January 1, 2018.
**Episode 15 opening - Coulson is given a room/cell, and told he will get answers in the morning.
*Day 2
**Episode 15 "24 hours ago" section - Coulson wakes, meets Ruby, finds out what happened to Talbot.
*Day 3
**Episode 15 - Daisy and Fitz talk, Daisy decides to get Robin out of hiding. Simmons tells Fitz they're invincible. This is the reference point for all the flashbacks in the episode. "28 years ago" Hale stuff. "2 years ago" just before Civil War, during Season 3, Episode 17. This supports the fact that it is now 2018. "6 months ago" Talbot and Hale, and "24 hours ago", events the morning after Episode 14.
*Day 4
**Episode 16 - Ruby says Coulson has been in isolation for 2 days - since the "24 hours ago" events from last episode. The events of Episode 16: Creel takes in some gravitonium. Daisy gets Robin from the Retreat. Simmons pulls the stunt to get Fitz freed and lock Mack up. They fly off to England. Coulson and Talbot escape to the mountains. Flashback to Beginning of the End shown as "four years ago", so with this timeline placing that in December 2013, you probably don't want this to be much later than the early January 2018 it seems to be currently.
The events of Episode 17, 18, and 19 then follow, and I haven't had a chance to do any time zone working-out, but I think it carries over into Day 5.
Episode 17: The "Invincible Three" skydive out of the jet in England. Daisy fights Ruby. Deke is injured. Piper frees Mack. The Invincible Three investigate the site in Herefordshire. Hale locks Ruby in her room. Strucker frees her. Talbot asks Daisy if he can call his family. They operate on Deke. Yo-Yo kills Ivanov. Ruby and Strucker make FitzSimmons fix the chamber. Talbot's conditioning is activated on the phone to his wife.
Episode 18: Talbot is on the loose. FitzSimmons work on the machine. Daisy and May team up with Hale. Yo-Yo protects herself in the jet. Talbot takes Robin. The gravitonium is put into the machine. Coulson stops Talbot. Ruby goes into the machine. Ruby kills Strucker. Yo-Yo kills Ruby. Hale tells Qovas he can attack.
Episode 19: Last night's episode.
So yeah, very much seems like we're still in early January 2018 - whereas Infinity War is more likely spring.
Also, with all this presidency talk - yeah, Steve calls Ross "Mr. Secretary" - but with the character in Runaways turning up at Gert's club in an "I'm with Her" T-shirt and saying "this T-shirt no longer fills me with unspeakable sadness!" or something like that, the various references in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. to the political climate, and Griffin in Jessica Jones: Season 2 saying to the press something like "Go chase some "alternative facts", yeah?", I think it's safe to guess that Trump or someone similar is now in charge.
Unfortunately I agree with Agamotto about the whole January thing.
I agree Infinity War seems more like Spring, and I'd like it as close to March/April as possible to make it a full two years, but January is only a few months off and we've never let weather stop a logical placement before. Winter Soldier is December even though it was clearly filmed in Summer, the recent Jessica Jones 2 May placement, Doctor Strange opening scenes, etc.
And really, the closer it is to Ragnarok, the better. Has them floating in space towards Earth for less time.
The only way I can see things passing Avengers 4 is if there is some sort of time stuff going on in Avengers 4 that means after that film's events, no one in the universe will remember the time half of the universe was wiped out and everything's back to normal as if nothing happened, meaning technically Infinity War could slot in anywhere.
It's not like Marvel is going to leave so many popular characters dead, let alone half their fictional universe, so a timeline reset in some way shape or form is a certainty. As impressed as I would be if the next episodes/season or so of SHIELD (depending on its renewal chances) dealt with the fallout of half the Earth's population being eliminated, I doubt that'll the case. I'm not caught up on SHIELD fully, but it seems like they're still headed towards an alternate timeline anyway, making this even less of an issue. The second Incident in New York probably occurs before the divergence point between the Destroyer of Worlds/Thanos's Balance/revised Avengers 4 corrected timelines, but the TV shows won't (and needn't) be affected by the end of the film because the Earth will either be shattered before Thanos's forces can attack Wokanda or Avengers 4 will reset the events of the film before everyone dies.
It'd be nice if at least the Second Incident was referenced in the Netflix shows eventually, but this is going to be a difficult plot point for the TV side to follow up on, given the impossibility of trying to plan entire seasons around a cliffhanger ending whose resolution can't be revealed for an entire year.
I wouldn't worry about the Netflix stuff. Guaranteed Luke Cage 2 and Daredevil 3 take place in 2017. I'd say the same is more than likely for Iron Fist 2 and Punisher 2 as well. They won't be getting near Infinity War until Jessica Jones 3, and that won't be out until well after A4.
I think it's almost certainly not going to work as an Infinity War tie-in. It could refer to anything really - it could just be referring to the Marauders at Lake Ontario, since that's New York. I don't think the writers knew what happens in Infinity War, and they thought they'd have a guess and just mention something happening in New York, as is evident from the trailers. In December, they actually said there would be no crossover - although granted, at the time they thought their season would be done before Infinity War, as is clear in the interview. But yeah, it's very vague, and technically the Marauders in the episode arriving at Lake Ontario are arriving in New York, you could just say it's referring to that - although they mention that River's End has been cut off technologically, so it wouldn't entirely work. I see no way that with 3 episodes to go in the season, they suddenly deal with the massive repercussions of Infinity War, and it would be very weird if anything got past Infinity War in the timeline until Avengers 4 comes out, because
of the massive, universe-changing cliffhanger. The only way I can see things passing Avengers 4 is if there is some sort of time stuff going on in Avengers 4 that means after that film's events, no one in the universe will remember the time half of the universe was wiped out and everything's back to normal as if nothing happened, meaning technically Infinity War could slot in anywhere.
Yeah, maybe. It depends on how much time the latter three episodes of AoS's season cover. If they're largely set one right after the other, which is likely heading into the season finale, it is a possibility those episodes all occur over one day. Currently the AoS timeline, as of end of AoS 5x19, seems to occur on same day as invasion of New York and ending at night, likely after the scenes from IW set in Scotland at night (since thats like 5 hours ahead of NY).
Again, I DO think the reference to New York was an intentional reference to Infinity War. And they're right that there isn't a crossover, like the first couple seasons did with direct crossovers, its a subtle reference like the past couple years have done.
There's no easy way to get Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. later than January.
*Episode 12 - "12-06-2017".
-Possible gap, but not particularly long-
*Episode 13 - A small amount of time after Episode 12. Not defined, but Fitz and Simmons "just" got married and other dialogue and actions suggest it's only been a few days.
-Possible gap, but not particularly long-
*Day 1
**Episode 14 - A small amount of time after Episode 13. Not defined, but the team are still trying to desperately plug the rift. Seems like merely days since Episodes 11 and 12, but it has to be at least 4 weeks since Yo-Yo got her arms cut off, because her arm stumps have healed over. I did some googling, and apparently with good surgery - which we saw her getting - it takes at least 4 weeks to heal over. But it does not seem like it can have been much more than 4 weeks because it gives a sense of only being days. With Yo-Yo's arms being cut off the evening of December 4, 2017, that would make this at least January 1, 2018.
**Episode 15 opening - Coulson is given a room/cell, and told he will get answers in the morning.
*Day 2
**Episode 15 "24 hours ago" section - Coulson wakes, meets Ruby, finds out what happened to Talbot.
*Day 3
**Episode 15 - Daisy and Fitz talk, Daisy decides to get Robin out of hiding. Simmons tells Fitz they're invincible. This is the reference point for all the flashbacks in the episode. "28 years ago" Hale stuff. "2 years ago" just before Civil War, during Season 3, Episode 17. This supports the fact that it is now 2018. "6 months ago" Talbot and Hale, and "24 hours ago", events the morning after Episode 14.
*Day 4
**Episode 16 - Ruby says Coulson has been in isolation for 2 days - since the "24 hours ago" events from last episode. The events of Episode 16: Creel takes in some gravitonium. Daisy gets Robin from the Retreat. Simmons pulls the stunt to get Fitz freed and lock Mack up. They fly off to England. Coulson and Talbot escape to the mountains. Flashback to Beginning of the End shown as "four years ago", so with this timeline placing that in December 2013, you probably don't want this to be much later than the early January 2018 it seems to be currently.
The events of Episode 17, 18, and 19 then follow, and I haven't had a chance to do any time zone working-out, but I think it carries over into Day 5.
Episode 17: The "Invincible Three" skydive out of the jet in England. Daisy fights Ruby. Deke is injured. Piper frees Mack. The Invincible Three investigate the site in Herefordshire. Hale locks Ruby in her room. Strucker frees her. Talbot asks Daisy if he can call his family. They operate on Deke. Yo-Yo kills Ivanov. Ruby and Strucker make FitzSimmons fix the chamber. Talbot's conditioning is activated on the phone to his wife.
Episode 18: Talbot is on the loose. FitzSimmons work on the machine. Daisy and May team up with Hale. Yo-Yo protects herself in the jet. Talbot takes Robin. The gravitonium is put into the machine. Coulson stops Talbot. Ruby goes into the machine. Ruby kills Strucker. Yo-Yo kills Ruby. Hale tells Qovas he can attack.
Episode 19: Last night's episode.
So yeah, very much seems like we're still in early January 2018 - whereas Infinity War is more likely spring.
I think Yo-Yo's recuperation time, as said, would be at least a month, and then we have to factor in the length of time for Fitz and Simmons to convert the android tech to work as a cybernetic, etc.
I'd say there's possible break points of at least a few weeks between 5x12 and 5x13 (with the latter putting us into January), and another possible break of a few weeks or more between 5x13 and 5x14. Remember, 4 weeks is the MINIMUM time in terms of healing for such an injury, but we also have to factor in the time, surgeries, and bug testing for her new cybernetic arms, which did present a challenge for Fitz, Simmons, and Mack.
Plus, again, its important to acknowledge the weather patterns in Infinity War absolutely don't reflect January in New York City. I think its more logical to assume slightly longer breaks between those few episodes to allow for the timeline to get to at least late Feb/early March to at least reflect early spring time. The winter weather in the outdoor scenes in AoS also no longer reflect winter weather.
Unfortunately I agree with Agamotto about the whole January thing.
I agree Infinity War seems more like Spring, and I'd like it as close to March/April as possible to make it a full two years, but January is only a few months off and we've never let weather stop a logical placement before. Winter Soldier is December even though it was clearly filmed in Summer, the recent Jessica Jones 2 May placement, Doctor Strange opening scenes, etc.
And really, the closer it is to Ragnarok, the better. Has them floating in space towards Earth for less time.
Another thing about Ragnarok: while it's not explicitly stated, it seems clear to me the only reason Thanos is making such an aggressive play for the stones is because of the death of Odin and the destruction of Asgard.
This makes me think the post-credit scene from Age of Ultron needs to be much later than 2015. Thor is shocked to learn
the Dwarves are dead and Eitri forged the Gauntlet. Thanos does not have the Gauntlet in Avengers or Guardians and he wouldn't have been able to get away with killing everyone on Nidavellir under Heimdall's watch. Was it said in Ragnarok how long Skurge had operated the bifrost/Heimdall had been a fugitive? I feel like not that long, since you'd think he'd have eventually alerted more people about Loki.
The Spider-Man Homecoming 8 years later thing isn't really debated here anymore, but I thought I would add a clip right from director Joe Russo saying that 8 years later is incorrect.
Another thing about Ragnarok: while it's not explicitly stated, it seems clear to me the only reason Thanos is making such an aggressive play for the stones is because of the death of Odin and the destruction of Asgard.
This makes me think the post-credit scene from Age of Ultron needs to be much later than 2015. Thor is shocked to learn
the Dwarves are dead and Eitri forged the Gauntlet. Thanos does not have the Gauntlet in Avengers or Guardians and he wouldn't have been able to get away with killing everyone on Nidavellir under Heimdall's watch. Was it said in Ragnarok how long Skurge had operated the bifrost/Heimdall had been a fugitive? I feel like not that long, since you'd think he'd have eventually alerted more people about Loki.
Thats a fair point, but was that AoU post credit scene set in Nidavellir? The way its presented in IW, Thanos came to Nidavellir, forced Eitri to create the Gauntlet under threat of genocide for his people, Eitri did so and Thanos took Gauntlet and killed the dwarves anyway. The AoU scene seemingly presents it as him breaking in somewhere to retrieve the Gauntlet from a vault... but I think this may be the fake Gauntlet (or one of the fake Gauntlets) that we saw in first Thor film. If we're to tie it all together, perhaps Odin had a replica to serve as a red herring for Thanos or any others pursuing the power of the stones, which is what Thanos takes in AoU post credit scene, finds its fake, and once Odin dies he learns of the actual Gauntlet having to be made in Nidavellir's forge (which makes sense since its same place Mjolnir and Stormbreaker were forged, as well as many unmentioned uber powerful cosmic weapons).
So you're probably right, though Thanos' plan to go after the stones, and direct actions in that purpose, occurred well before Odin's death too: the first Avengers film in 2012, first Guardians film two years later in 2014, etc. I do think there's credence to the idea Thanos may have been emboldened by Odin's death and destruction of Asgard (there's another interesting connection between Ragnarok and destruction of Asgard and a universe-wide Ragnarok in terms of Thanos's plan succeeding and wiping out half of all life that occurred as a direct result of Ragnarok and the Space Stone being taken from the safety of Asgard...).
People are going to HAVE to start fading out existence in the next Agents of SHIELD episode, if they want to keep that IW reference relevant. If not, then Tony Caine's line has 0% to do with IW.
People are going to HAVE to start fading out existence in the next Agents of SHIELD episode, if they want to keep that IW reference relevant. If not, then Tony Caine's line has 0% to do with IW.
Regarding this, I'm wondering if Infinity War's release being pushed up by a week is why we didn't see anything this episode. I'm also wondering if that line/scene was reshot last minute and added to help with the adjusted release date synergy, and thus we may see more direct crossover elements in next week's episode (which aligned with the ORIGINAL release date). We'll see next week.
Given the preview for next week's AoS shows Coulson and Talbot/Graviton on the Marauder ship, seemingly soon after the conclusion of last episode, it's entirely possible the next few episodes do occur over that second day of IW. We'll see.
Regarding this, I'm wondering if Infinity War's release being pushed up by a week is why we didn't see anything this episode. I'm also wondering if that line/scene was reshot last minute and added to help with the adjusted release date synergy, and thus we may see more direct crossover elements in next week's episode (which aligned with the ORIGINAL release date). We'll see next week.
Given the preview for next week's AoS shows Coulson and Talbot/Graviton on the Marauder ship, seemingly soon after the conclusion of last episode, it's entirely possible the next few episodes do occur over that second day of IW. We'll see.
I'm hearing second hand that they will address it more in next episodes:
one of the crew associated with SHIELD mentioned that they will further address infinity war in the upcoming episodes. They D idnt want to this episode in case some people hadn't seen the movie yet.
This is just a random user post so it may be untrue, but they DID stretch the Winter Soldier elements across a couple episodes, and combined with them moving IW's release date up a week and how that would've affected plans for AoS's tie in elements, there is a likelihood to it.
Concerning the passage of time between Ragnarok and Infinity War:
I definitely think that at least a few months have passed between the end of Ragnarok and the end credits scene of Ragnarok/beginning of Infinity War. Ragnarok takes place around November of 2017 and depending on Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s remaining episodes, Infinity War can take place anywhere from January to June of 2018. At the beginning of Infinity War, the distress signal sent out mentions that it's from the Asgardian refugee ship. This sounds to me like enough time has passed that it's been established pretty much everywhere that Asgard is destroyed and the survivors are on a ship headed for Earth. This, combined with the fact that Thor knew about Thanos attacking/destroying Xandar "last week," which would probably be a major thing known across the galaxy, makes it seem like the ship is known to many across the galaxy, which wouldn't be possible if Thanos attacked the ship immediately/closer to the end of Ragnarok.
Concerning the passage of time between Ragnarok and Infinity War:
I definitely think that at least a few months have passed between the end of Ragnarok and the end credits scene of Ragnarok/beginning of Infinity War. Ragnarok takes place around November of 2017 and depending on Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s remaining episodes, Infinity War can take place anywhere from January to June of 2018. At the beginning of Infinity War, the distress signal sent out mentions that it's from the Asgardian refugee ship. This sounds to me like enough time has passed that it's been established pretty much everywhere that Asgard is destroyed and the survivors are on a ship headed for Earth. This, combined with the fact that Thor knew about Thanos attacking/destroying Xandar "last week," which would probably be a major thing known across the galaxy, makes it seem like the ship is known to many across the galaxy, which wouldn't be possible if Thanos attacked the ship immediately/closer to the end of Ragnarok.
I just assumed Thor learned of Xandar's destruction during the attack on the Asgardian ship, perhaps overhearing the Children of Thanos mention it or something.
I really DO want to put a break between the post credit scene where they run into Thanos's ship and the rest of Ragnarok, but it seems like not much time has passed considering they're discussing going to Earth.
Just went for my second time. Looks like the after credits scene happens at 10:24 as per the car clock. It's license plates are Georgian. I assume it's likely set in Atlanta. Occurs around the same time as events in Wakanda so timezones can be extrapolated from there if need be with the SHIELD overlap
Just went for my second time. Looks like the after credits scene happens at 10:24 as per the car clock. It's license plates are Georgian. I assume it's likely set in Atlanta. Occurs around the same time as events in Wakanda so timezones can be extrapolated from there if need be with the SHIELD overlap
And when Tony checks the flip-phone early on, I'm pretty sure I remember it was 1 : ?? PM. Can't remember the minutes. And that's only about half an hour after the opening of the film I'd guess. So the film lasts about 21 hours.
Thats a fair point, but was that AoU post credit scene set in Nidavellir? The way its presented in IW, Thanos came to Nidavellir, forced Eitri to create the Gauntlet under threat of genocide for his people, Eitri did so and Thanos took Gauntlet and killed the dwarves anyway. The AoU scene seemingly presents it as him breaking in somewhere to retrieve the Gauntlet from a vault... but I think this may be the fake Gauntlet (or one of the fake Gauntlets) that we saw in first Thor film. If we're to tie it all together, perhaps Odin had a replica to serve as a red herring for Thanos or any others pursuing the power of the stones, which is what Thanos takes in AoU post credit scene, finds its fake, and once Odin dies he learns of the actual Gauntlet having to be made in Nidavellir's forge (which makes sense since its same place Mjolnir and Stormbreaker were forged, as well as many unmentioned uber powerful cosmic weapons).
So you're probably right, though Thanos' plan to go after the stones, and direct actions in that purpose, occurred well before Odin's death too: the first Avengers film in 2012, first Guardians film two years later in 2014, etc. I do think there's credence to the idea Thanos may have been emboldened by Odin's death and destruction of Asgard (there's another interesting connection between Ragnarok and destruction of Asgard and a universe-wide Ragnarok in terms of Thanos's plan succeeding and wiping out half of all life that occurred as a direct result of Ragnarok and the Space Stone being taken from the safety of Asgard...).
I've always hated that scene, especially in its almost non sequitur relation to Age of Ultron. (It would been a better tag for Guardians 1). So I kinda like the fact that it has newfound significance, and I think it's lame to no-prize it as a fake.
While it certainly doesn't look like Nidavellir, it could have been a special room there. Or even somewhere on Sanctuary II.
I just assumed Thor learned of Xandar's destruction during the attack on the Asgardian ship, perhaps overhearing the Children of Thanos mention it or something.
I really DO want to put a break between the post credit scene where they run into Thanos's ship and the rest of Ragnarok, but it seems like not much time has passed considering they're discussing going to Earth.
Just went for my second time. Looks like the after credits scene happens at 10:24 as per the car clock. It's license plates are Georgian. I assume it's likely set in Atlanta. Occurs around the same time as events in Wakanda so timezones can be extrapolated from there if need be with the SHIELD overlap
That would be 5:24 PM in Wakanda. Close enough for the Sun to be up I guess. It would probably work better earlier in the day though. Not only for Wakanda but the lighting in the Atlanta scene looked more like it was shortly after sunrise.
If we're running with Tony's phone being correct, that makes it around the 6 o'clock hour in the Scotland scenes. This would lend to the January placement with it getting dark early, being before daylight savings in March.
