Hey everyone, sorry to break from the Infinity War/Ragnarok debate, but I had a question regarding the death of Sarah Rogers. The only evidence I could find to it was in "Captain America: First Vengeance" which is clearly wrong and a SHIELD file that puts it in 1936. So I was hoping someone could help me out with why it's in 1941 here? Maybe point me toward some evidence I glossed over haha.
Also, in regards to the Infinity War/Thor/Agents of Shield line up. And I'm just kind of jumping head first into a debate here only seeing Ragnarok twice and never having taken notes. But is it possible that Hela was on the throne much longer than it seems? I don't know if there is any evidence to back that up, but obviously Heimdall had a ton of time to round up almost all of Asgard into his safe....house? And since time is weird on Sakaar and clearly moves at a faster rate, such as Loki being separated from Thor seconds apart, but telling Thor he had been there for weeks (obviously I can't account for their individual journy to get to Sakaar, but my point is that maybe Hela was on the throne for a few months. I'm obviously a bit out of my element on this particular movie, so tell me if I am reaching but it seems like maybe
November/December:Earth portion of Ragnarok with nod in Agents of Shield
December-Wherever we are now- SHIELD SHIELD SHIELD
Hours before where Infinity War is placed-Escape from Sakaar, Destruction of Asgard, End Ragnarok scene
Couple hours after those events- Ragnarok post credits scene
Infinity War
Just me working this out out loud
The 1941
First Vengeance events are the scenes where Steve and Bucky find out about Pearl Harbour. The
Winter Soldier flashback with Sarah's funeral is in October 1936 - Steve says in
Civil War that he was "18" when she died ("I've been on my own since I was 18"), putting it in 1936-37, and one of the S.H.I.E.L.D. files like you said says October 1936. I haven't checked if it's one of those fan-mad ones or one of the official ones, though. The scenes shown from 1924 with her seemingly on death's door in
First Vengeance are still placed in 1924, with it explicitly saying so. I guess she just didn't actually die. Then the September 1930 scenes with him meeting Bucky and saying his mother died... I guess 12-year-old Steve was just trying to get some pity from Bucky :/ . It's overruled by the
Winter Soldier scene showing that when she died he was at least 18 and he already knew Bucky, and him saying in
Civil War that he was 18.
By the logic of time running faster on Sakaar because of the Loki thing, where "weeks" on Sakaar = about 10 seconds outside of Sakaar, then the 3 days Thor spends on Sakaar would amount to about 1 second outside of Sakaar. But I don't think there's any correlation. The Grandmaster only says, "Time works real different around these parts," before implying that people can be younger on Sakaar than they would be outside (which would mean time runs slower on Sakaar, with, say for example, 2 days on Sakaar = 1 day outside). As well as this - of course, Asgardians age at about 1/100th the speed of humans after reaching adulthood, but even so - Valkyrie looks no different now than she did 1000+ years prior, suggesting that she has aged less than that, perhaps only a few centuries, which would be only a few human years.
So yeah, probably no correlation, time's just speeding up and slowing down all over the place. But it seems to me like once Thor lands on Sakaar, it's actually about the same on Sakaar and Asgard. About 3 days pass for both. Hela doesn't seem like she's been there long, only just discovering that the Bifrost sword is gone, only just finishing her first round-up of the Asgardians and going to find the remaining people who've gone missing and are in hiding. Being in sync would also make sense for the Thor and Heimdall scene where the two of them are in sync.
Personally, I don't think the gap's that big of a deal. I would just say that
Ragnarok is Autumn/Fall 2017, and then
Infinity War is some time in early 2018 - around March if it turns out that the
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. reference cannot refer to the film, thus allowing it to be a bit more like springtime while not being
too long after
Ragnarok and also fitting with the Scotland time zone stuff, or around January-February if the
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. reference does pan out. A few months seems pretty fine to me. Perhaps they're only a few days out from Earth and Loki's just airing his concerns again considering they're going to arrive soon. I guess they have food and water on-board, or have stopped off for resources.
Again, I DO think the reference to New York was an intentional reference to Infinity War. And they're right that there isn't a crossover, like the first couple seasons did with direct crossovers, its a subtle reference like the past couple years have done.
I think Yo-Yo's recuperation time, as said, would be at least a month, and then we have to factor in the length of time for Fitz and Simmons to convert the android tech to work as a cybernetic, etc.
I'd say there's possible break points of at least a few weeks between 5x12 and 5x13 (with the latter putting us into January), and another possible break of a few weeks or more between 5x13 and 5x14. Remember, 4 weeks is the MINIMUM time in terms of healing for such an injury, but we also have to factor in the time, surgeries, and bug testing for her new cybernetic arms, which did present a challenge for Fitz, Simmons, and Mack.
Plus, again, its important to acknowledge the weather patterns in Infinity War absolutely don't reflect January in New York City. I think its more logical to assume slightly longer breaks between those few episodes to allow for the timeline to get to at least late Feb/early March to at least reflect early spring time. The winter weather in the outdoor scenes in AoS also no longer reflect winter weather.
Oh, I'm sure that it was intended as an
Infinity War reference. It's just whether, in-universe, it can actually work as such.
I know the 4 weeks is only the minimum amount of time, but really, to me at least, it seems like merely days - that's why I was bringing up the minimum, because it feels to me like it should be as close as possible to about 4 days. At least 26 days have to pass between Episode 12 (2 days after Yo-Yo's arms were cut off) and Episode 14, and with Episode 13 falling somewhere in the middle and that being when they get the robotic arms, I assumed that the majority of the tech stuff with Yo-Yo's new arms was between Episode 13 and 14, when they'd have had about 13 days. Fitz is locked up in Episode 14 and they're operating to attach the arms in Episode 15, 2 days later - it must have been mostly done before Fitz was imprisoned. In Episode 14, they're getting desperate to close the rift, which is reopening after temporarily closing it in Episode 12, seemingly only days ago - so, the minimum, about 26, at least to me. But I guess you could stretch it further.
Episodes 14-18 and seemingly 19 are then consecutive though with no real opportunity for gaps, unless you assume it took Hale several days to get Coulson to her base between 14 and 15, which seems very unlikely - they're already flying there in Episode 14. And I haven't made my notes on Episode 19 yet (I usually rewatch the week before's episode and take my notes the day before the next episode airs), but maybe there's a possibility of a few days between 18 and 19. It seems to be straight after though, considering Hale has told Qovas in anger at S.H.I.E.L.D. that he can attack now, they're still worried about Talbot, and the team are arguing about Yo-Yo's actions.
The Spider-Man Homecoming 8 years later thing isn't really debated here anymore, but I thought I would add a clip right from director Joe Russo saying that 8 years later is incorrect.
https://youtu.be/HavGIsG84Wk?t=1m20s
That's been brought up a couple of times - at the time, I didn't think much of it personally. I'm not complaining about all the "Joe Russo Confirms Homecoming Timeline Is Incorrect" articles, but to me it didn't seem like a confirmation - it seemed like he was joking in a manner like, "Haha, yes, a "very incorrect "8 years later"", as we've heard all over the Internet." But obviously,
Infinity War does reject it, so we're good.
Spider-Man 2 or this mysterious "official timeline" could end up screwing things up again but for now... everything's good!
Thats a fair point, but was that AoU post credit scene set in Nidavellir? The way its presented in IW, Thanos came to Nidavellir, forced Eitri to create the Gauntlet under threat of genocide for his people, Eitri did so and Thanos took Gauntlet and killed the dwarves anyway. The AoU scene seemingly presents it as him breaking in somewhere to retrieve the Gauntlet from a vault... but I think this may be the fake Gauntlet (or one of the fake Gauntlets) that we saw in first Thor film. If we're to tie it all together, perhaps Odin had a replica to serve as a red herring for Thanos or any others pursuing the power of the stones, which is what Thanos takes in AoU post credit scene, finds its fake, and once Odin dies he learns of the actual Gauntlet having to be made in Nidavellir's forge (which makes sense since its same place Mjolnir and Stormbreaker were forged, as well as many unmentioned uber powerful cosmic weapons).
So you're probably right, though Thanos' plan to go after the stones, and direct actions in that purpose, occurred well before Odin's death too: the first Avengers film in 2012, first Guardians film two years later in 2014, etc. I do think there's credence to the idea Thanos may have been emboldened by Odin's death and destruction of Asgard (there's another interesting connection between Ragnarok and destruction of Asgard and a universe-wide Ragnarok in terms of Thanos's plan succeeding and wiping out half of all life that occurred as a direct result of Ragnarok and the Space Stone being taken from the safety of Asgard...).
Someone on the wiki had a theory I quite liked. They suggested that the Infinity Gauntlet had been a
concept for a very long time, and that's why Odin had a fake one in his vault in 2010 (wiki timeline)/2011 (this timeline), but had never actually been forged because it was so dangerous. However, some time when Asgard was not around to help - either during Loki's time on the throne, or post-destruction, so between November 2013 and early 2018 - Thanos went to Nidavellir and forced Eitri to forge the gauntlet. Assuming that the
Age of Ultron scene is the same gauntlet, he could be taking it from Nidavellir now that it's complete, or it could be that he had it forged some time soon after
Thor: The Dark World and had it stored away, waiting for Ronan to deliver him the Power Stone. When he didn't, some time after, he decided, "Fine, I'll do it myself," and retrieved Eitri's specially-forged gauntlet from storage.
The scene is definitely after
Guardians of the Galaxy and before
Avengers: Infinity War though, somewhere between 2014 and early 2018. Either he decided he'd do it himself, but waited almost 4 years to actually act (potentially because the Ancient One and Odin are now gone and Earth and Asgard are more vulnerable - I like that theory), or he waited almost 4 years to get the gauntlet - or somewhere in the middle, in early-to-mid 2016.
Credits scenes don't have to be chronologically after the film or in order. Examples: The
Iron Man 2 credits scene takes place a couple of days before the end of the film, the day after the Stark expo fights and the day before Tony and Fury have their meeting. The
Ant-Man mid-credits scene with Wasp seemingly takes place before the epilogue scenes, soon after Hope and Scott's kiss scene. The
Captain America: Civil War post-credits Spider-Man scene takes place before the mid-credits Wakanda scene. The 5th
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 credits scene, with Stan Lee, takes place before all the previous 4, especially the 4th scene, the Adolescent Groot one, which is years later. The
Thor: Ragnarok post-credits Grandmaster scene takes place before the mid-credits scene with the
Sanctuary II.
The
Age of Ultron credits scene is basically up in the air. Markus and McFeely actually said recently that they weren't going to address that scene and that they weren't really sure what was supposed to be going on in the scene - it's clearly pretty disconnected.
