Lost *spoilers*

Re: Lost

Goodwill said:
Let me know how it turns out. The concept seems pretty cool, too. What's the cover look like?


Kate's on the cover, along with light and shadows. The story focuses on one of the 48 characters that we don't know yet. Her name is Faith Harrington, I think. Chapter 1 dealt with her waking up after the plane crash (leading me to believe that the white shoe in episode 1 was hers). She sees someone (Kate? I'm not sure) in the jungle. Chapter 2 is a flashback....
 
Re: Lost

Just about every review I've read of the novel has been abysmally negative, and I'll need to hear one positive opinion before I consider buying it, so let me know how it turns out.
 
Re: Lost

I haven't been reading this thread due to spoilers, but I did just see an episode called "Homecoming" and I am going to go through it proper:

Basically, Preggo-girl returns with amnesia, and then Ethan comes and demands Charlie return Preggo-girl or he kills one person a day. Actually, this scene made me laugh for two reasons: First, when Ethan says, "I'll kill one person a day, every day until I get Claire" I couldn't help but be remembered of Lurr from Futurama going, "We will raise the temperature of your planet by one million degrees a day - for five days, until you give us McNeal". Secondly, Ethan tells Charlie that he will kill him last, and I laughed thinking that Charlie was safe. Anyhoo, Charlier tells Jack, Locke, Sayid, et al about Ethan and they set a trap and in a genuinely suspensful and exciting sequence, they capture Ethan, and then Charlie shoots Ethan and kills him dead before the others have a chance to take him back to the caves to interrogate him.

Now, it made sense to shoot Ethan, he was not only a kidnapper, murderer, and a huge security risk - but he was the bad guy and we wanted him dead - plus he hanged Charlie. The problem I have is that it's reaffirming my fears regarding this show:

There is no way that they have a pay off planned that's worth it all.

See, I learned something from X-Files, Babylon 5, Enterprise, Buffy, Sopranos, and the host of other tv shows that were serials but with long-running arcs in the background.

These shows created a mystery, a "big picture", a subplot that would on occassion, take over the show for an episode or two, disappear, but remain in the background being subtely hinted towards as the show progressed towards its finale. It's a great way to get the best of both worlds - single 'filler' episodes that delve into characters and long-running arcs to pay off on the nature of following television.

But the main difference between those that did it well and those that did it poorly was this: The bad shows would create a mystery and have the occassional "big picture" episode where they would not progress the arc at all. The characters would just get involved, not revealing much of anything, because it's all spelled out in the first "big picture" and then "explained" in the last one.

For example, look at Enterprise. Broken Bow tells you all about the Temporal Cold War, and then each other TCW episode doesn't progress the plot at all until it resolves in a half-assed manner. X-Files had "the conspiracy" appear once or twice a season, where no questions were answered, until "Redux" which was a great way to end the show, but then they decided aliens are real and did "One Son". When it did resolve, they invented a new mystery and carried on in the same manner until cancellation. Desperate Housewives also did this with the Zach/Dana thing.

The problem is that the "big picture" isn't worth building up to... or rather it would be if the build up payed off creating a progressive story that wasn't much more than just one season.

When a show does it well, what it does is it reveals a subplot, resolves it and creates a NEW ONE out of the old. Buffy had a different arcing story each season. The first season was The Master, then Angelus, The Mayor in the third, Adam for season four, Glory in the fifth, The Trio in the sixth and the First for the seventh. Not only that but each season had a couple of other subplots, for example, season 2 had Buffy and Angel's love subplot, Faith in season 3, and not only that, but these subplots resolved and created or complicated the big villain subplot. For example, in season 2, Spike and Drusilla and the big villains, and Angel and Buffy are having a love story. The love story results in Angel going evil, becoming Angelus and leading Spike and Drusilla in a plot to destroy the world. They did this every year.

The Sopranos has a very similar structure of Tony having to deal with a different enemy each year, the struggle played out over the whole year.

Babylon 5 had a five-year arc, that progressed amazingly well, in the form of the Shadow war, and the Earth civil war.

All the shows I mention kept the "big picture" evolving.

Now, here in Lost, the big picture is, "What's going on with that island?" which encompasses pretty much all the questions - who are the others, what's with the hatch, why can't they get off it, why is no one rescuing them, why are there polar bears, is Walt a Bill Mumy, will they ever get off the island, etc.

That has yet to progress in any meaningful fashion. Yes, there is more to the show than just 'the big picture'; we get Locke and Hurley and Michael, each of whom are terrific fun. But we also get Sawyer and Kate and Boone's sister, who are all bollocks.

Now, Claire got kidnapped. Very cool. Is it to do with her 'super baby'? Maybe. Will we find out?

In Homecoming, Claire returns - with amnesia, so she can't tell us anything about Ethan, why he took her, or where, or if there any more like him. When Ethan comes for her, he's killed before he can tell us anything.

Basically, we're three episodes behind now. Yes Claire is back - but the big picture has yet to progress. She was stolen, now she's back. The amnesia, Ethan's death - while the death was in character for Charlie, it reeks to me of those badly plotted arc shows where they simply do not have enough story to warrant multiple seasons of "build up". This is the problem. The well written shows don't just "build up", they pay off too. "Homecoming" was all poised to be the "pay off" episode on Ethan. Claire returns, and Ethan demands her return, and we are left with both characters completely unable to expand on the plot further until the writers decided to do so during sweeps.

I just get wound up, because the next few episodes will be Claire unable to remember anything worthwhile from her experiences, Locke and Boone mindlessly prodding at the hatch, Michael building a raft and so forth, none of which will matter until the last 2 episodes of the season.

When I started to watch Lost, I joked that I would just watch the last 3 episodes, and get "all the good bits". Well, thankfully, Lost does have some wonderful character episodes, but as for the "big picture"... eh.
 
Re: Lost

I've said before, they're making it up as they go along.

If you'd have just repeated that line it would have saved sooo much time on your part, not to mention mine.

We get a glimpse into the big picture in season 2 episode 3. But I'm sure nothing will happen of it for a while.

But, you say that it's bad because it doesn't follow a familiar series format? Yeah, I think that's a crappy reasoning. It's a show about symbolism and internet geekery. Elements are constantly introduced to keep people interested, blipvert-like.

An arc is really one or two episodes, and they overlap sometimes, the main story is linear, it's a road trip, it's discovery, it's not knowing what's important or not.

I like puzzles, it's a puzzle show.
 
Re: Lost

Guijllons said:
But, you say that it's bad because it doesn't follow a familiar series format?

No I didn't. I said that when shows create long-running stories, some do it well and some do it badly. I've noticed that those who do it well do so because they pay off the build up frequently, creating new parts to the story, revealing more and more and the stories progress and change and evolve. Buffy, The Sopranos, and Babylon 5, all of whom I mentioned, do this in three different ways. The shows that don't do it well, set it all up in the first two or three episodes and then don't add any new pieces to the story, don't progress it until a special double episode season finale where we find out a little more, they reset the status quo, and continue until they get cancelled.

I said that Lost is doing it's long-running story line in a fashion similar to those shows that have, in my opinion, failed in this manner. I didn't say that Lost is bad because it's not Buffy.

Guijllons said:
It's a show about symbolism and internet geekery. Elements are constantly introduced to keep people interested, blipvert-like.

But elements aren't introduced. The Hatch appears as a footnote to one episode, and since then, nothing's happened with it. The only thing that has happened since the crash, apart from Russo, is Ethan, and that's been resolved specifically in a way that instead of introducing new elements results in us having no new information at all.

And I know about the symbolism, such as the concept that John Locke is a representation of the philosopher of the same name, who espoused free will, Russo is named after the philosopher Russo who was about the entrapment of people, and that the other 14 characters represent the seven deadly sins and seven cardinal virtues. I think Lost, for the most part, is actually quite entertaining. Homecoming was exciting. I'm just pissed off that the show keeps going on about this continuing storyline that they never do anything with.
Guijllons said:
An arc is really one or two episodes, and they overlap sometimes, the main story is linear, it's a road trip, it's discovery, it's not knowing what's important or not.

I like puzzles, it's a puzzle show.

So which is it? A road trip or a puzzle show? For a road trip, it's very long and no one seems to know where they're going. For a puzzle show, they've told us there's a puzzle, and buried every new piece they gave us. Dammit, one of the survivors should've been the co-pilot of the plane that they found. He should have lived. The guilt-trip alone would be enough for an entire episode.
 
Re: Lost

Crap, I wish Bass wouldn't reply long-windedly when I'm not in the mood for long-winded replying.

The source isn't that reliable, it's on a site linked off wiki.

But if it is that person it makes sense. If Lost is based on reality shows where the least popular member is voted off, then who do you think the least popular member of the cast is?
 
Re: Lost

Not that person. That person could be interesting now that the crutch is gone. The character can be truly expanded as the character's mind has been forced out of it's usual tendencies, but alas, as usual with Lost lately, let's get rid of the new plot points.

I was truly upset with the beginning of this season, the stupid hatch, and the stupid computer. They redeemed themselves somewhat with the showing of the orientation video, but other than that, all this season is doing is making people look over every image with a fine tooth comb to find these so called puzzle pieces.

Like I care that a shark has the company's logo on it's belly

Like I care that the plane also had that logo.

I don't

The reason I watch Lost is for the interactions between the characters. The interesting backstories. I gave up on guessing on what was coming because the show pulls, what I like to refer as Millars.

A Millar is a plot point that makes very little sense until someone sits down with you and explains it in great detail (a la Marvel Knight's Spiderman, and even then it still made no sense to me. I have the feeling this Traitor storyline is going to go the same way).

I want ot know what Kate did, I want to find out why Hugo was put in jail, I want Rosa and her husband to reunite, and I want to find out what happened to Jack's marrage.

As for the damn Others, they can go piss on a gum tree for all I care. They most likely have logos on their body as well to further this 'story'.

After this season, I really don't think I'm going to follow it anymore. It's no longer a mystery, more of a game of Clue where someone ran off with all the cards.
 
Re: Lost

Nobody here does any research on this show, do they.

Who dies?
Shannon dies.
Her
death will be a principal plot device for the rest of the season.

Her
death will be GRUESOME!!! Understand that - GRUESOME!!!

Kate's crime will be revealed in Episode 8 on 11/23. In this episode it is also revealed that
Ana was LAPD
. Also - Locke & Eco make discoveries about the film (which features the Degroots - who are possibly the Others and the folks who stole Walt.)

Walt is off due to a sudden growth spurt. lol. He may be replaced by another actor. And that is the only reason.

Look for Locke to start getting closer to Claire, starting next episode as well. Charlie has a fit.

Leather.
 
Re: Lost

leather_w0lf said:
Who dies?
Shannon dies.
Her
death will be a principal plot device for the rest of the season.

Her
death will be GRUESOME!!! Understand that - GRUESOME!!!
Aw, nuts... If that's true, I'm gonna be seriously annoyed. I'd happily accept a "Millar" -- as Houde so wonderfully described it -- over an
Identity Crisis
any day of the week.
 
Last edited:
Re: Lost

It's not true. It's a fact.

lol.

The Episode is Shannon-centric.
The man that died in the ER when Jack saved his futre wife was Shannon's father.

Oh - and get this: Shanon went to school with
Sayid's girl Nadia - called Nora in this episode!!!

Leather
 

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