SeAcoW
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2005
- Messages
- 904
Random
Didn't **** any of those *****es
Hibiki
Really is pretentious, no matter what she says. Do
Re: Jack Bauer vs. Noah Bennet
Random is the next Jack Bauer
Random is the next Jack Bauer
ourchair
Well-Known Member
Re: Jack Bauer vs. Noah Bennet
Race & religion hardly play into the series at all. In the first season, we're not presented with a large community of Serbians trying to terrorificate the hell out of everyone. Instead we have a small two-cell group of Serbians who just want revenge. They could easily have been Russians or Italian and it would still be the same. In the third season, all them Latin-American big shot criminals turn out to be a facade for the machinations of a disgruntled British secret agent.
In short, the writers make it darn clear that all terrorists act in a rogue capacity that makes it silly to try to paint any ethnicity with the terrorist brush. What's actually strange is how often Muslims and Muslim-American terrorists turn out to be either completely innocent, sympathetic or pawns for someone else.
As for torture and other Machiavellian means of justice and information gathering, 24 is a lot like The Shield... it constantly presents characters with the dilemma of choosing between the immediate good and the more expedient resolution.
And every time Bauer & Co. decide to do terrible things for the sake of the greater good, it is never without a psychological cost. In fact, a recurring theme of the show is how it is impossible for Jack to lead a normal life let alone be emotionally comfortable with himself. 24 might be depicting torture as a patriot act, but it always causes Bauer significant angst. As Stephen King points out:
Also, 24 is neither right wing or left wing, just as The Shield has never been about any political stance. Instead it focuses on the decisions that people have to make in their work, and sometimes that means taking the most expedient course of action to stop a problem, and sometimes it means making personal sacrifices in order to fulfill an obligation and sometimes that means disavowing the moral absolutes of conservative ideology or disregarding liberal sensitivity. Hell, sometimes it means both.
As someone who has found himself without sleep for 24 hours for more times than he can care to remember, I have no idea why it's even a big deal that someone --- Jack, Tony or Chloe --- can last 24 hours. It's not like each season is another 24 hours continuing from the last season... each hellish day takes place at least months apart.
The idea that 24 is a hyper-conservative justification for torture and anti-Muslim sentiment is also utter nonsense. That's like saying The Shield is a hearty endorsement of Machiavellianism and anti-Latino sentiment. Anybody who believes either statement is either delusional or lying.Random said:
Race & religion hardly play into the series at all. In the first season, we're not presented with a large community of Serbians trying to terrorificate the hell out of everyone. Instead we have a small two-cell group of Serbians who just want revenge. They could easily have been Russians or Italian and it would still be the same. In the third season, all them Latin-American big shot criminals turn out to be a facade for the machinations of a disgruntled British secret agent.
In short, the writers make it darn clear that all terrorists act in a rogue capacity that makes it silly to try to paint any ethnicity with the terrorist brush. What's actually strange is how often Muslims and Muslim-American terrorists turn out to be either completely innocent, sympathetic or pawns for someone else.
As for torture and other Machiavellian means of justice and information gathering, 24 is a lot like The Shield... it constantly presents characters with the dilemma of choosing between the immediate good and the more expedient resolution.
And every time Bauer & Co. decide to do terrible things for the sake of the greater good, it is never without a psychological cost. In fact, a recurring theme of the show is how it is impossible for Jack to lead a normal life let alone be emotionally comfortable with himself. 24 might be depicting torture as a patriot act, but it always causes Bauer significant angst. As Stephen King points out:
Each season finds Bauer becoming increasingly unhinged, absolutely downtrodden and growing even more emotionally constipated. The ending scene of season 3 says it all: Jack goes to his car, starts sobbing and hyperventilating... visibly fighting with his own regrets and emotional compromises... and then gets a call, and goes back to work.Stephen King said:
Also, 24 is neither right wing or left wing, just as The Shield has never been about any political stance. Instead it focuses on the decisions that people have to make in their work, and sometimes that means taking the most expedient course of action to stop a problem, and sometimes it means making personal sacrifices in order to fulfill an obligation and sometimes that means disavowing the moral absolutes of conservative ideology or disregarding liberal sensitivity. Hell, sometimes it means both.
Random
Didn't **** any of those *****es
Re: Jack Bauer vs. Noah Bennet
That's exactly it, though 24 does really gear more towards the right, its not as bad as people make it out to be. They really try to be fair about everything.
ourchair
Well-Known Member
Re: Jack Bauer vs. Noah Bennet
I absolutely do NOT believe in the idea that quality storytelling should consider 'all sides' or be 'fair and balanced'. Most people who attempt to do that fail and end up with a pile of undercooked middlebrow garbage.
It's just that shows like 24 and The Shield use the political backdrop of law enforcement and national security as a narrative space for the characters decisions and not to 'talk out a political stance'. Neither of these shows is trying to be The West Wing, or God forbid, Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip.
As TIME Magazine's Kelsey McNeal points out:
I don't think it's a question of politics or ideology as it is about actually paying attention to what the hell is going on in the show.
I absolutely do NOT believe in the idea that quality storytelling should consider 'all sides' or be 'fair and balanced'. Most people who attempt to do that fail and end up with a pile of undercooked middlebrow garbage.
It's just that shows like 24 and The Shield use the political backdrop of law enforcement and national security as a narrative space for the characters decisions and not to 'talk out a political stance'. Neither of these shows is trying to be The West Wing, or God forbid, Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip.
As TIME Magazine's Kelsey McNeal points out:
The only politics the show has are narrative politics.
Random
Didn't **** any of those *****es
Re: Jack Bauer vs. Noah Bennet
This is why your a gad damn hollywood genius
The majority of the country voted for Bush the last election, I compare this to that.
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Hibiki
Really is pretentious, no matter what she says. Do
Ultimate Houde
UC's Resident Genetic Recombinator
Re: Jack Bauer vs. Noah Bennet
Actually, the majority of the country voted for Kerry, Bush won cause of the electoral votes
Actually, the majority of the country voted for Kerry, Bush won cause of the electoral votes
Random
Didn't **** any of those *****es
Re: Jack Bauer vs. Noah Bennet
Are you sure you'r not confuse the 2000, I thought Bush had a clear win last time?
Also I will not accept this as official until someone can give me empirical (I'm sick of typing this word) proof. Not from people just "I like Heroes better" or "There's super heroes in Noah world that automatically makes him better". Specifically instants of bad ***-ness that out weighs something like, Oh I don't know, cutting off some dude's head who's in witness protection to immediately reestablish an under cover identity. Something like that.
I'm comparing people voting for Bush for dumb reasons that utlimately played no part in this term.
Are you sure you'r not confuse the 2000, I thought Bush had a clear win last time?
Also I will not accept this as official until someone can give me empirical (I'm sick of typing this word) proof. Not from people just "I like Heroes better" or "There's super heroes in Noah world that automatically makes him better". Specifically instants of bad ***-ness that out weighs something like, Oh I don't know, cutting off some dude's head who's in witness protection to immediately reestablish an under cover identity. Something like that.
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ourchair
Well-Known Member
Re: Jack Bauer vs. Noah Bennet
"I'm sorry."
"NO! No, that's fantastic! You did it! You're a producer now. You did it!"
"Rafkin... you just killed a man."
"I'm sorry."
"NO! No, that's fantastic! You did it! You're a producer now. You did it!"
Re: Jack Bauer vs. Noah Bennet
I thought people DIDN'T vote bush but he won anyway on a technicality like a conciseness or what ever it's called.
Edit
damn just noticed Houde beat me to it
I thought people DIDN'T vote bush but he won anyway on a technicality like a conciseness or what ever it's called.
Edit
damn just noticed Houde beat me to it
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Random
Didn't **** any of those *****es
Re: Jack Bauer vs. Noah Bennet
In the 2000 election, not in the 2004 against Kerry, where he used a bunch of scare tactics to win
Ultimate Houde
UC's Resident Genetic Recombinator
Re: Jack Bauer vs. Noah Bennet
****, you are right Random
That sucks ***
****, you are right Random
That sucks ***
Random
Didn't **** any of those *****es
Re: Jack Bauer vs. Noah Bennet
I tried really hard to understand that election seeing as it was my first time voting
I tried really hard to understand that election seeing as it was my first time voting
Lynx
Well-Known Member
Re: Jack Bauer vs. Noah Bennet
Why the hell did you even make this poll then? If Bauer won, you would have gloated. Now that he's losing, you're dismissing the poll altogether.
No, that was Gore. Bush won over Kerry by 3 million votes.
Edit: Beat'd.
Why the hell did you even make this poll then? If Bauer won, you would have gloated. Now that he's losing, you're dismissing the poll altogether.
No, that was Gore. Bush won over Kerry by 3 million votes.
Edit: Beat'd.
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Random
Didn't **** any of those *****es
Re: Jack Bauer vs. Noah Bennet
I'm just not accepting this defeat, go a head and vote, it will be official. Go a head and be considering illogical Heroes fanboys by the interwebs. I'm just making my case (which is a damn good one.) I'm just comparing the people voting either for wrong or uninformed reasons
I'm just not accepting this defeat, go a head and vote, it will be official. Go a head and be considering illogical Heroes fanboys by the interwebs. I'm just making my case (which is a damn good one.) I'm just comparing the people voting either for wrong or uninformed reasons
Hibiki
Really is pretentious, no matter what she says. Do
Re: Jack Bauer vs. Noah Bennet
yeah you could get a million votes in texas and lose the electoral points which i think is 5 and get 500,000 votes in a smaller state and get 7 points or something. so technically you could get more votes but it's the points that count for some idiotic reason and it almost always comes down to iowa or florida being the deal breakers.
yeah you could get a million votes in texas and lose the electoral points which i think is 5 and get 500,000 votes in a smaller state and get 7 points or something. so technically you could get more votes but it's the points that count for some idiotic reason and it almost always comes down to iowa or florida being the deal breakers.
Hellsbuttmonkey
Well-Known Member
Re: Jack Bauer vs. Noah Bennet
To be fair though, the number of things Bauer has done is so high, for one thing because he has had SIX seasons of his show to fill up with stuff. Wait until Bennet has been rockin' for 6 seasons, then compare.
To be fair though, the number of things Bauer has done is so high, for one thing because he has had SIX seasons of his show to fill up with stuff. Wait until Bennet has been rockin' for 6 seasons, then compare.
