Heroes seasons 1 & 2 series discussion [spoilers]
Goodwill
Well-Known Member
Re: Heroes *Spoilers*
PS Why was West randomly at Claire's window? Stalk much?
PS Why was West randomly at Claire's window? Stalk much?
Gideon Stargrave
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Lynx
Well-Known Member
Re: Heroes *Spoilers*
Noah Bennet needs to beat his ***.
I'd watch a whole episode of that, actually. Just Bennet beating West to death.
Noah Bennet needs to beat his ***.
I'd watch a whole episode of that, actually. Just Bennet beating West to death.
Planet-man
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Gideon Stargrave
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Goodwill
Well-Known Member
Re: Heroes *Spoilers*
Yo, I hear that's the season finale. If Bennet doesn't, New York will explode...
Yo, I hear that's the season finale. If Bennet doesn't, New York will explode...
Joe Kalicki
Well-Known Member
Lynx
Well-Known Member
Goodwill
Well-Known Member
Re: Heroes *Spoilers*
And much more satisfying at the end.
And much more satisfying at the end.
Dancanread
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Re: Heroes *Spoilers*
pleaseletwestbeevilpleaseletwestbeevilpleaseletwestbeevil
pleaseletwestbeevilpleaseletwestbeevilpleaseletwestbeevil
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Bass
Nexus of the World
Re: Heroes *Spoilers*
Finally caught up, watched the first two episodes just now.
KICK ***.
Yes, this is true. However, even in a spoiler thread it's good form to put the spoiler tags on anything that has yet to happen.
I know spoilers mean spoiling stuff before it happens but I think it's just good form. If it ain't aired, err on the side of caution.
I had the exact same reaction. I love Hiro.
When you say "cliche" you mean BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER.
Claire's whole thing, I was just going - That guy is Xander (West), he's Giles (Noah), that's Willow (Martha), hello Cordelia (the cheerleader *****). It's so samey. Kinda fun though - Noah being kickass is what kept it going.
Don't get the West hate. I don't like him, but I don't see how he can cause so much antipathy.
Also, I assumed Takezo would be Hiro's dad. How wrong I was! See, I assumed that Kaito would die in 2007, but Kaito (as Kenzei) would be with Hiro in 1671 and when Hiro gets back to 2007 he'd be all, "Yay! I can't wait to see my dad NOW - oh, he's dead - the IRONIC TRAGEDY! *pain pain*".
But boy was I wrong.
Kensei is a gaijin. So, with Kensei being a scummy man I assumed that Hiro would become Kensei - SO WRONG!
I wasn't expecting Kensei to regenerate. That was brilliant. Now I don't know where this is going. Maybe Hiro and Kensei will grow further and further apart and the two will duel to the death over the title - maybe Hiro will teach Kensei - I dunno anymore.
Also, as for the murder mystery - it seems Nathan Petrilli is the murderer.
First of all, Nathan bumps into Ando just before he meets Kaito - obviously he slips the photo into the newspaper Ando is carrying. Nathan is also present when his mother gets the photo.
Not only that, but Nathan's ability to fly would explain (as they say in the episode) how the murderer survived the fall that killed Kaito.
Of course, all evidence points to Nathan until his mother is 'attacked' by an invisible man. Obviously, this is Eccleston's character. Nathan can't have killed Kaito as he couldn't be the one attacking his mama. This is to throw us off. The guy who killed Kaito not only succeeded, but while they 'disappeared' (no body was found of the murderer), they didn't use invisibility. We're supposed to think Kaito's murderer turned invisible and they're the same guy. I doubt it. Nathan killed Kaito. Eccleston attacked Mama Petrelli.
If Nathan is responsible, (remember that Claire is talks to Nathan asking him why he's doing 'this' - at that time, all Nathan is doing is drinking, obviously he's planning something and these revenge murders - revenge for himself and his brother - makes perfect sense), Mama Petrelli is only scared not killed precisely because Nathan either can't bring himself to kill her or is using the fear to get further into the company to destroy it. It seems Noah, Mohinder, and Nathan have a plan going, and Parkman and Claire in it just enough. The assassin didn't 'fail' - the assassin was never meant to kill Mama Petrelli. Don't know why just yet.
The black out is what's confusing though. It didn't give the attacker an advantage - they're already invisible.
But then part of me remembered something else: the first season was a play on the WATCHMEN storyline of the NY bomb plot. So what if the second season is going to play with the mask-killer aspect of that plot? The whodunnit part? (Sylar was never a whodunnit.) In which case, I'm reminded of the scene where the architect of the NY bomb plot, Ozymandias, is attacked by a would-be assassin, only to have the assassin die without any answers revealed. It's a double-bluff. Ozymandias has an assassin hired, whom he kills to throw suspicion off.
Could Nathan's mother have done the same? If so - maybe her power is related to electricity - maybe she can cause a brown out.
If that's so, then maybe it's a false assassination, orchestred by Mama Petrelli and she herself causes the black out - though, I don't know why she would (maybe to knock out the security tapes so they couldn't see her talking to the invisible attacker.
Or, as I said above, Nathan scaring his mother into helping him destroy the Company and the brown outs were simply Mama Petrelli losing control of her powers or trying to defend herself during the attack she assumed would kill her. She caused the blackouts trying to defend herself. This makes some sense, I think.
Basically - I'm convinced the assassination attempt on Mama Petrelli was orchestrated - but either by Nathan or by her, and I think the Nathan angle is more credible.
I'm surprised we don't know what Kaito's powers were. (Or Linderman's father.)
I also have to wonder if the Irish mob boss is going to be another Linderman.
The company guy who can turn things into Gold (Ned Ryerson) is great. A friend of mine suggested he's Sylar - which would make some roundabout sense if he's gotten Candice's powers.
I'm really enjoying this so far. The mysteries of the Mexican couple and how Peter ended up in a box with a godsend necklace don't interest me so much. I'm more interested in the Bennet/Mohinder conspiracy, Hiro and Kensei's destinies, and of course, the Kaito murder mystery.
These two episodes are much better than the premiere two episodes of the first season. Huge improvement.
KICK ***.
Finally caught up, watched the first two episodes just now.
KICK ***.
Yes, this is true. However, even in a spoiler thread it's good form to put the spoiler tags on anything that has yet to happen.
I know spoilers mean spoiling stuff before it happens but I think it's just good form. If it ain't aired, err on the side of caution.
I had the exact same reaction. I love Hiro.
When you say "cliche" you mean BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER.
Claire's whole thing, I was just going - That guy is Xander (West), he's Giles (Noah), that's Willow (Martha), hello Cordelia (the cheerleader *****). It's so samey. Kinda fun though - Noah being kickass is what kept it going.
Don't get the West hate. I don't like him, but I don't see how he can cause so much antipathy.
Also, I assumed Takezo would be Hiro's dad. How wrong I was! See, I assumed that Kaito would die in 2007, but Kaito (as Kenzei) would be with Hiro in 1671 and when Hiro gets back to 2007 he'd be all, "Yay! I can't wait to see my dad NOW - oh, he's dead - the IRONIC TRAGEDY! *pain pain*".
But boy was I wrong.
Kensei is a gaijin. So, with Kensei being a scummy man I assumed that Hiro would become Kensei - SO WRONG!
I wasn't expecting Kensei to regenerate. That was brilliant. Now I don't know where this is going. Maybe Hiro and Kensei will grow further and further apart and the two will duel to the death over the title - maybe Hiro will teach Kensei - I dunno anymore.
Also, as for the murder mystery - it seems Nathan Petrilli is the murderer.
First of all, Nathan bumps into Ando just before he meets Kaito - obviously he slips the photo into the newspaper Ando is carrying. Nathan is also present when his mother gets the photo.
Not only that, but Nathan's ability to fly would explain (as they say in the episode) how the murderer survived the fall that killed Kaito.
Of course, all evidence points to Nathan until his mother is 'attacked' by an invisible man. Obviously, this is Eccleston's character. Nathan can't have killed Kaito as he couldn't be the one attacking his mama. This is to throw us off. The guy who killed Kaito not only succeeded, but while they 'disappeared' (no body was found of the murderer), they didn't use invisibility. We're supposed to think Kaito's murderer turned invisible and they're the same guy. I doubt it. Nathan killed Kaito. Eccleston attacked Mama Petrelli.
If Nathan is responsible, (remember that Claire is talks to Nathan asking him why he's doing 'this' - at that time, all Nathan is doing is drinking, obviously he's planning something and these revenge murders - revenge for himself and his brother - makes perfect sense), Mama Petrelli is only scared not killed precisely because Nathan either can't bring himself to kill her or is using the fear to get further into the company to destroy it. It seems Noah, Mohinder, and Nathan have a plan going, and Parkman and Claire in it just enough. The assassin didn't 'fail' - the assassin was never meant to kill Mama Petrelli. Don't know why just yet.
The black out is what's confusing though. It didn't give the attacker an advantage - they're already invisible.
But then part of me remembered something else: the first season was a play on the WATCHMEN storyline of the NY bomb plot. So what if the second season is going to play with the mask-killer aspect of that plot? The whodunnit part? (Sylar was never a whodunnit.) In which case, I'm reminded of the scene where the architect of the NY bomb plot, Ozymandias, is attacked by a would-be assassin, only to have the assassin die without any answers revealed. It's a double-bluff. Ozymandias has an assassin hired, whom he kills to throw suspicion off.
Could Nathan's mother have done the same? If so - maybe her power is related to electricity - maybe she can cause a brown out.
If that's so, then maybe it's a false assassination, orchestred by Mama Petrelli and she herself causes the black out - though, I don't know why she would (maybe to knock out the security tapes so they couldn't see her talking to the invisible attacker.
Or, as I said above, Nathan scaring his mother into helping him destroy the Company and the brown outs were simply Mama Petrelli losing control of her powers or trying to defend herself during the attack she assumed would kill her. She caused the blackouts trying to defend herself. This makes some sense, I think.
Basically - I'm convinced the assassination attempt on Mama Petrelli was orchestrated - but either by Nathan or by her, and I think the Nathan angle is more credible.
I'm surprised we don't know what Kaito's powers were. (Or Linderman's father.)
I also have to wonder if the Irish mob boss is going to be another Linderman.
The company guy who can turn things into Gold (Ned Ryerson) is great. A friend of mine suggested he's Sylar - which would make some roundabout sense if he's gotten Candice's powers.
I'm really enjoying this so far. The mysteries of the Mexican couple and how Peter ended up in a box with a godsend necklace don't interest me so much. I'm more interested in the Bennet/Mohinder conspiracy, Hiro and Kensei's destinies, and of course, the Kaito murder mystery.
These two episodes are much better than the premiere two episodes of the first season. Huge improvement.
KICK ***.
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TwilightEL
Well-Known Member
Re: Heroes *Spoilers*
Brilliant theory. I agree that the blackouts were caused by Mama Petrelli, because if the blackout hadn't happened she might've been killed--it only served to draw attention to the attack.
Brilliant theory. I agree that the blackouts were caused by Mama Petrelli, because if the blackout hadn't happened she might've been killed--it only served to draw attention to the attack.
ProjectX2
Don't expect me to take you with me when I go to s
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Re: Heroes *Spoilers*
Bass' posts always make this show seem better than it really is.
Bass' posts always make this show seem better than it really is.
TwilightEL
Well-Known Member
Re: Heroes *Spoilers*
Actually... I have to agree with this one. It's been good, but they've wasted so much time on the South American twins doing nothing, West being a douche, and Peter being stupid that it's getting kind of annoying. What they're doing with those three plots right now is really boring and wasteful. It's not developing the characters or moving the plot forward at all. The Mohinder, Parkman, Bennet, Haitian plot is great, the murder mystery is thrilling, and Hiro is being Hiro, which is always a good thing. But I don't want to spend half of the show waiting for the good part to start.
Bass' posts always make this show seem better than it really is.
Actually... I have to agree with this one. It's been good, but they've wasted so much time on the South American twins doing nothing, West being a douche, and Peter being stupid that it's getting kind of annoying. What they're doing with those three plots right now is really boring and wasteful. It's not developing the characters or moving the plot forward at all. The Mohinder, Parkman, Bennet, Haitian plot is great, the murder mystery is thrilling, and Hiro is being Hiro, which is always a good thing. But I don't want to spend half of the show waiting for the good part to start.
Lynx
Well-Known Member
Re: Heroes *Spoilers*
Eh, I really don't think Nathan had anything to do with Kaito's murder. Both him and Angela seemed to have seen this happen before and seemed to think that their killer was going to be someone from the previous generation of Heroes. And, when Kaito is attacked, he says something similar to "YOU! Out of all of them I never expected you!"
Eh, I really don't think Nathan had anything to do with Kaito's murder. Both him and Angela seemed to have seen this happen before and seemed to think that their killer was going to be someone from the previous generation of Heroes. And, when Kaito is attacked, he says something similar to "YOU! Out of all of them I never expected you!"
Bass
Nexus of the World
Re: Heroes *Spoilers*
Yeah, but that line, "I never expected it to be you" or whatever is like the line where Xena sees one of the final five in BSG and says, "Sorry, forgive me".
It's so completely vague that it can be absolutely ANYONE. It's not really a clue. I could believe him saying that to Nathan. Nathan, at this time, is meant to be a useless drunk who was too 'goody goody' to go through with the Linderman plot. If it's Eccleston, then it's because he thought he was dead, and so on.
It's kinda like cold reading - we put in the meaning to that line, rather than the writer. I don't give it much thought.
Indeed, Twi!
The twins, the Buffy, and Peter plots are somewhat lackluster. But I dunno - I just saw the first two eps back to back and while I found them annoying, they didn't... they weren't a big problem for me. The murder mystery, Hiro, and the Noah/Mohinder conspiracy take the bulk of the story because they're all linked - Kaito and Parkman link them. Kaito links the mystery to Hiro and Parkman links it to Mohinder. What's more, Claire's story is linked to Noah, and Peter's arc links to Nathan which links to the mystery as his mum is a target. I think it's a lot better this time round. The duller story arcs are much more entwined save for the Mexican duo. But that's because they're dull. They're just running and the whole 'if separate, people die' schtick is tiresome as we worked it out in episode 1 and 'seeing it' in episode 2 wasn't that thrilling.
Also, I liked the fact that West shows he can fly, a repeated power (possibly linking him even more so to Claire and the Petrellis), so that when Kensei shows he can regenerate the idea of repeated powers already exists (gotta wonder if he's related to the Petrellis...)
Yeah, but that line, "I never expected it to be you" or whatever is like the line where Xena sees one of the final five in BSG and says, "Sorry, forgive me".
It's so completely vague that it can be absolutely ANYONE. It's not really a clue. I could believe him saying that to Nathan. Nathan, at this time, is meant to be a useless drunk who was too 'goody goody' to go through with the Linderman plot. If it's Eccleston, then it's because he thought he was dead, and so on.
It's kinda like cold reading - we put in the meaning to that line, rather than the writer. I don't give it much thought.
TwilightEL said:
Indeed, Twi!
The twins, the Buffy, and Peter plots are somewhat lackluster. But I dunno - I just saw the first two eps back to back and while I found them annoying, they didn't... they weren't a big problem for me. The murder mystery, Hiro, and the Noah/Mohinder conspiracy take the bulk of the story because they're all linked - Kaito and Parkman link them. Kaito links the mystery to Hiro and Parkman links it to Mohinder. What's more, Claire's story is linked to Noah, and Peter's arc links to Nathan which links to the mystery as his mum is a target. I think it's a lot better this time round. The duller story arcs are much more entwined save for the Mexican duo. But that's because they're dull. They're just running and the whole 'if separate, people die' schtick is tiresome as we worked it out in episode 1 and 'seeing it' in episode 2 wasn't that thrilling.
Also, I liked the fact that West shows he can fly, a repeated power (possibly linking him even more so to Claire and the Petrellis), so that when Kensei shows he can regenerate the idea of repeated powers already exists (gotta wonder if he's related to the Petrellis...)
Lynx
Well-Known Member
Re: Heroes *Spoilers*
I was more concentrating on the fact that they were pretty sure it was one of their old crowd. But, what do I know. I guess we'll see.
I was more concentrating on the fact that they were pretty sure it was one of their old crowd. But, what do I know. I guess we'll see.
Goodwill
Well-Known Member
Re: Heroes *Spoilers*
Do you think that the Kensei storyline will eventually tie up the end of "where did this mutations begin" with Takeo being the original hero? I think that would be a really cool way to introduce the opus of the generations and evolutions of the characters we're beginning to find more out about.
Do you think that the Kensei storyline will eventually tie up the end of "where did this mutations begin" with Takeo being the original hero? I think that would be a really cool way to introduce the opus of the generations and evolutions of the characters we're beginning to find more out about.
Planet-man
Well-Known Member
Re: Heroes *Spoilers*
Personally, it's not so much that I despise him directly, it's that I despise that it really looks like they're trying to sell him as an important, sympathetic, and .... *shudders*... wise character. Even worse, they seem to think they're succeeding. Next thing you know he'll be Claire's "cool" boyfriend or some ****.
It's like Ana-Lucia in the second season of LOST. She drags a lot of the second season down because they tried to sell her as sympatheic and good deep down when really.... she was just a downright obnoxious *****.
Personally, it's not so much that I despise him directly, it's that I despise that it really looks like they're trying to sell him as an important, sympathetic, and .... *shudders*... wise character. Even worse, they seem to think they're succeeding. Next thing you know he'll be Claire's "cool" boyfriend or some ****.
It's like Ana-Lucia in the second season of LOST. She drags a lot of the second season down because they tried to sell her as sympatheic and good deep down when really.... she was just a downright obnoxious *****.
