Batman and Robin (Morrison/various) discussion

Re: Batman and Robin (Morrison/Quitely) discussion

Gothamite said:
Bruce Wayne is returning in Summer 2010 in two events: 'The Search for Bruce Wayne' and 'The Return of Batman'. By that time, Batman and Robin will have been published for a year.

Makes sense to end it at that time.
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No, I hate it when they do something like kill Batman, set up an aftermath that people actually like and you can explore only to undo it a year later. They should keep Bruce away from that scene for at least 5 years. That way his death means something, Grayson actually develops way beyond mere sidekick and you get plenty of great stories about post death batman.
 
Re: Batman and Robin (Morrison/Quitely) discussion

Random said:
No, I hate it when they do something like kill Batman, set up an aftermath that people actually like and you can explore only to undo it a year later. They should keep Bruce away from that scene for at least 5 years. That way his death means something, Grayson actually develops way beyond mere sidekick and you get plenty of great stories about post death batman.
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What do you mean "It actually means something"? That's silly. Morrison has a story to tell, and he knows how long he wants to tell it. We don't know what that story is. Setting an arbitrary deadline as readers for how long the story needs to be is asinine.

Besides, five years is a long time. We're only three months in and there's only one book squarely in post-RIP territory that's not mediocre to terrible. How is it going to look in four and a half years?
 
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Re: Batman and Robin (Morrison/Quitely) discussion

Exactly. As long as both the death and the return stories are great, them I'm fine with it.

And five years is far too long. It will have been at least a year and a half, maybe two by the time he's finally back.
 
Re: Batman and Robin (Morrison/Quitely) discussion

Random said:
No, I hate it when they do something like kill Batman, set up an aftermath that people actually like and you can explore only to undo it a year later. They should keep Bruce away from that scene for at least 5 years. That way his death means something, Grayson actually develops way beyond mere sidekick and you get plenty of great stories about post death batman.
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You're getting me horribly wrong. Because I totally agree with what you're saying. I could read stories about Dick and Damien for decades. I think it's pretty silly to already be revealing his return, but I suppose he was never going to be dead forever and everyone knows that.

My point is that 'Batman and Robin' should end with Bruce coming back, rather than continuing on with Bruce and whoever is Robin at that point.
 
Re: Batman and Robin (Morrison/Quitely) discussion

So what did anyone think of Issue Four?

I thought it had some really interesting parts, that summed up to a fairly average, adequate whole. It seemed as if it was trying harder to be 'badass' than anything else. The character moments between Dick and Damien were more just about (once again) showing how much of an insane killer Damien is, rather than developing their relationship.

But the Red Hood is really cool. I hope he's the Joker, taking on a new persona in response to the new Batman.
 
Re: Batman and Robin (Morrison/Quitely) discussion

Gothamite said:
So what did anyone think of Issue Four?

I thought it had some really interesting parts, that summed up to a fairly average, adequate whole. It seemed as if it was trying harder to be 'badass' than anything else. The character moments between Dick and Damien were more just about (once again) showing how much of an insane killer Damien is, rather than developing their relationship.

But the Red Hood is really cool. I hope he's the Joker, taking on a new persona in response to the new Batman.
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Why does everyone keep suggesting they hope it's the Joker? Am I the only one who thinks that's a terrible, terrible idea?

I think it's pretty clearly Jason Todd anyway. Dick called him Jason and Morrison said in earlier interviews that one of his storylines on B&R was going to b a bout Todd.
 
Re: Batman and Robin (Morrison/Quitely) discussion

Zombipanda said:
Why does everyone keep suggesting they hope it's the Joker? Am I the only one who thinks that's a terrible, terrible idea?

I think it's pretty clearly Jason Todd anyway. Dick called him Jason and Morrison said in earlier interviews that one of his storylines on B&R was going to b a bout Todd.
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I agree, I think this Red Hood should be a new villain like Grayson's own arch enemy. The Joker to his Batman.
 
Re: Batman and Robin (Morrison/Quitely) discussion

Gothamite said:
So what did anyone think of Issue Four?

I thought it had some really interesting parts, that summed up to a fairly average, adequate whole. It seemed as if it was trying harder to be 'badass' than anything else. The character moments between Dick and Damien were more just about (once again) showing how much of an insane killer Damien is, rather than developing their relationship.

But the Red Hood is really cool. I hope he's the Joker, taking on a new persona in response to the new Batman.
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I disagree. I think they are developing their relationship perfectly. Your complaint doesn't make sense to me.
 
Re: Batman and Robin (Morrison/Quitely) discussion

They didn't develop anything. Nothing new was brought to the relationship. They just retread over the kinds of dialogues Dick and Damien have had since issue one.

Dick: Do this, or this will happen.

Damien: It doesn't matter if this happens, because I can KILL PEOPLE!!!111

It just seems like there are a lot of those kinds of dialogues. They're growing stale, compared to issue three, where we had Damien, speechless, after Dick had saved his life. I want there to be more occasions where I am surprised and engrossed in new developments, rather than a continuous stream of the same stuff.
 
Re: Batman and Robin (Morrison/Quitely) discussion

Gothamite said:
They didn't develop anything. Nothing new was brought to the relationship. They just retread over the kinds of dialogues Dick and Damien have had since issue one.

Dick: Do this, or this will happen.

Damien: It doesn't matter if this happens, because I can KILL PEOPLE!!!111

It just seems like there are a lot of those kinds of dialogues. They're growing stale, compared to issue three, where we had Damien, speechless, after Dick had saved his life. I want there to be more occasions where I am surprised and engrossed in new developments, rather than a continuous stream of the same stuff.
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But you are complaining there is not any development after one arc that was only set like in a couple day period. It will be slow development. I don't expect Damien to change anytime soon, it would be forced. There is a nice moment in the Blackest Night Batman that adds to his character.

That one moment in issue 3 was a really huge thing.
 
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Re: Batman and Robin (Morrison/Quitely) discussion

thee great one said:
But you are complaining there is not any development after one arc that was only set like in a couple day period. It will be slow development. I don't expect Damien to change anytime soon, it would be forced. There is a nice moment in the Blackest Night Batman that adds to his character.
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Exactly. Consistency is as necessary as forward momentum. The character can grow, but there still needs to be a sense of continuity from one issue to the next so they're not a new character in every issue. While the first issue of this arc hasn't impressed me as much as the Quitely/Morrison story, I still enjoyed it and there were some interesting, big ideas. It's just the first issue of the story anyway. It's the set up.
 
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Re: Batman and Robin (Morrison/Quitely) discussion

I mean that smirk and comment "Nice night" really seems liked a moment to me, that Damien is finally warming to Dick.
 
Re: Batman and Robin (Morrison/Quitely) discussion

thee great one said:
I mean that smirk and comment "Nice night" really seems liked a moment to me, that Damien is finally warming to Dick.
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Agreed. I think the slow warming between Damian and Dick is really supposed to be the heart of the character development in the book. What can these disparate personalities, who are a reversal of the typical Batman/Robin dynamic, learn from each other?
 
Re: Batman and Robin (Morrison/Quitely) discussion

So, the new issue dropped. The art doesn't hold a candle to Quitely, and while that was just an artistic tour de force, due to the beautiful art and layouts, I'm enjoying this better from a narrative standpoint.

I felt like the first arc was largely flash and bang, and while the whole "killer vigilantes vs. Batman" thing has been done to death, I like the little wrinkles Morrison is introducing. The dialogue is tight as ever and the relationship between Dick and Damian is really coming into its own. The idea of marketing and branding is an amusing and natural extension of the current direction of the franchise and largely as a result of that characterization, Jason Todd is a generally interesting and flawed character for probably the first time ever. Rather than "RARGH! I'M EVIL BATMAN! YOU FAILED ME! PATHOSPATHOSPATHOS!" he really bleeds as this really directionless kid who's general mission statement is vacuous and flaccid. "I'm the hip Batman!" :D And in the same way, it reflects back on Bruce as Batman, and Morrison's run on that series. It's Bruce's strict no killing policy that's kept the city from really erupting with this new breed of villain. It looks back on his run on Batman where the Joker was relatively well kept in check by his mirror posturing of Batman until he was shot in the face by one of the replacements (even though, granted, Morrison's execution for the "Devil Joker" was somewhat lacking). We're going to see this new breed of psychotics running around the streets until Bruce returns and finds some way to turn the clock back to the way things were, or else it's going to devolve into the world of 666.

Plus, these new characters Morrison is sprinkling in are all intriguing and flamboyant in ways we rarely see in Batman characters these days. The only guy I can think of who's managed to introduce rogues as interesting and sensical in the past couple of decades is Paul Dini.

From the sound of things, the next arc is going to be the big slam-bang superhero guest spot bonanza, and then the last one will deal with Hurt and the keys to Wayne Manor. All in all, it looks like each storyline is going to ramp up the intensity in a pretty major way. I honestly can't wait. The fact that it's built like a maxiseries rather than an ongoing only makes me more hyped for it.
 
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Re: Batman and Robin (Morrison/Quitely) discussion

The Flamingo!
 
Re: Batman and Robin (Morrison/Quitely) discussion

New issue is out? Great. :)

Any word on who the artist is for the next arc? Tim Sale'd be awesome.
 
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Re: Batman and Robin (Morrison/Quitely) discussion

E said:
He did the Manhattan Guardian mini in Seven Soldiers. Good stuff.
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He also did (is doing) Seaguy!

From the sound of things it's going to be a big, flashy, spectacular superhero guest star bonanza. And according to DC, they postponed it until January because it has big repercussions (or vice versa) for Blackest Night. Stewart's also mentioned it's closely tied with Johns' event.
 
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