Batman and Robin (Morrison/various) discussion

[Iceshadow]

Here's the Comics Alliance annotation which is more detailed than anything I could do: http://www.comicsalliance.com/2010/11/03/batman-and-robin-16-annotations/

 

[Grocer Man]

Desperately need to catch up on this.

 

[Gothamite]

Desperately need to catch up on this.

Same.

 

[Bass]

Just finished reading #16.

Right, I picked up BATMAN & ROBIN because I was really digging the idea of Damian Wayne as Robin and I liked the smaller stories and I liked the Domino killer.

But what pisses me off is that all this cool chess mystery between Joker and Black Glove and the Wayne family and Pyg's gas addiction all has to play second fiddle to DAS UBER-PLOT. I am don't get all these company wide crossovers because I can't stand them. And here is a perfectly fine, entertaining series that has its climax completely steamrolled over by it containing the climax to THE RETURN OF BRUCE WAYNE (which I've not been reading) which in turn is the climax of BATMAN R.I.P. and INFINITE CRISIS 3: THE WHATEVERING and this climax isn't even a climax, but the set-up to another Batman meta-plot called BATMAN INCORPORATED. This comic has been about Dick Grayson and Damian Wayne trying to be the new Batman and Robin and in the last issue climaxing the previous fifteen Bruce Wayne shows up and solves everything and then announces there's going to be more Batmen or something.

I. JUST. CAN'T. STAND. IT.

Maybe it's my own fault for buying a comic so obviously tied into a meta-plot, but it's pissed me off, because an otherwise interesting and entertaining Batman story has been factory pressed into an absurd marketing gimmick. Out of nowhere, Bruce Wayne shows up and just goes, "New plot", sweeping aside fifteen issues. Maybe it's my own fault for not reading three other series that have "Batman" in the title.

I dunno. I'm too wound up to articulate my grievance properly.

I guess I just wanted an ending and all I got was an advert.

 

[ProjectX2]

Return of Bruce Wayne #6 was one of the most difficult comics I've ever read, Batman and Robin #16 was pretty good but like Bass mentioned, relied on the aforementioned difficult comic to completely understand it and Batman, Inc. #1 was like a completely fresh start and great and lots of fun.

 

[Zombipanda]

I don't think you can really fault B&R 16 for being what it is. The fact is, Morrison's run on the series is a continuation of his Batman story in general, in the same way that, say, Empire Strikes Back is. It has it's own themes and tones but it's still just a segment of a long form narrative, and it never pretended to be otherwise. From Dr. Hurt to zombie Batman to the last arc where they're actively searching for Bruce Wayne, the story has been shrouded in the long-form narrative since the beginning. Hell, I pick up two major character strands in the story. One is Damian's coming to maturity as a kid sidekick. The other is Dick growing into the mantle, and both get a resolution. Sure, you have a subplot that resolves the stuff that happened in the Return book, but you also have Dick and Damian saving the day against the principal villain from their own series. And it's a narrative that would be hard to call "company crossover". Everything springs from a pretty narrow line. Almost everything is seeded directly out of the preceding Batman run.

I'm curious to see what kind of resolution you expected. The fact is, the series is going to be continuing. Despite the "advert" for Morrison's new status quo, B&R seems poised to continue the same thematic stories in the same compressed style.

But maybe I'm biased. I didn't think the Batman in Time miniseries was all that great, but I was looking forward to seeing the subplots planted throughout the past few years resolved.

Either way, Proj is right. The first issue of Batman Inc. is aces and seems to have expunged all the back story necessary to understand what's going on. You might want to check it out.

 

[E]

Return of Bruce Wayne #6 was one of the most difficult comics I've ever read, Batman and Robin #16 was pretty good but like Bass mentioned, relied on the aforementioned difficult comic to completely understand it and Batman, Inc. #1 was like a completely fresh start and great and lots of fun.

Totally agreed. I barely have any idea what happened in RoBW #6.

And I wish this whole grand spiraling story was easier to follow in regards to reading order.

 

[Bass]

Return of Bruce Wayne #6 was one of the most difficult comics I've ever read, Batman and Robin #16 was pretty good but like Bass mentioned, relied on the aforementioned difficult comic to completely understand it and Batman, Inc. #1 was like a completely fresh start and great and lots of fun.

I wasn't that I didn't understand it. It was that here was this interesting story and BRUCE WAYNE HAS COME BACK NOW BATMAN IS A BUSINESS. I understood what was happening but it was so forced and anti-climactic and out of nowhere it was just frustrating.

I don't think you can really fault B&R 16 for being what it is. The fact is, Morrison's run on the series is a continuation of his Batman story in general, in the same way that, say, Empire Strikes Back is. It has it's own themes and tones but it's still just a segment of a long form narrative, and it never pretended to be otherwise. From Dr. Hurt to zombie Batman to the last arc where they're actively searching for Bruce Wayne, the story has been shrouded in the long-form narrative since the beginning. Hell, I pick up two major character strands in the story. One is Damian's coming to maturity as a kid sidekick. The other is Dick growing into the mantle, and both get a resolution. Sure, you have a subplot that resolves the stuff that happened in the Return book, but you also have Dick and Damian saving the day against the principal villain from their own series. And it's a narrative that would be hard to call "company crossover". Everything springs from a pretty narrow line. Almost everything is seeded directly out of the preceding Batman run.

True, it's a continuation, but consider the jump from RIP to BATMAN & ROBIN. It's a new cast, with a new book and the other story ends. BATMAN & ROBIN into BATMAN INC. is just as one ends it immediately jump starts the next arc. To put it another way; the scene where Bruce Wayne tells Gotham he funds Batman should've been in BATMAN INC. and not in BATMAN & ROBIN #16. It felt like they're fish hooking me into their new title.

I'm curious to see what kind of resolution you expected. The fact is, the series is going to be continuing. Despite the "advert" for Morrison's new status quo, B&R seems poised to continue the same thematic stories in the same compressed style.

All I wanted was a resolution that didn't tell me to pick up the next issue of the sixth Batman title on the shelves to get the rest of the story.

Either way, Proj is right. The first issue of Batman Inc. is aces and seems to have expunged all the back story necessary to understand what's going on. You might want to check it out.

I seriously doubt I will. I've had enough. The only reason I picked up BATMAN & ROBIN was for Frank Quitely and because it was stand alone stories. Turns out it never was and it's just going to go on and on for years.