Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

Mephisto built parker a dreamworld.

That is how they ret-con this.
 
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

No. The ending was, "Okay, we dissolve the marriage without having to have them be divorced. Mephisto magics it so we get classic Spidey back."

JMS then wrote, "The last 20 years never happened."

Marvel said, "We can't do that, can you try to write what we originally agreed upon, please?"

JMS said, "I think this is the better story."

Marvel; "Seriously - this will mess up all the Spidey titles we've got ready to go. It causes an enormous amount of problems."

JMS; "Okay. I'll do what I can."

That's it. No big controversy or "WRITE WHAT WE TELL YOU STRACYZNKASZORGI!"
I totally agree with you.

A lot of people like to look for controversy where they can in the relationships between creative types and upper management, and thus will blow the tiniest disagreement out of proportion.

That said, without having read much of previous discussion on this whole One More Day situation --- and I have only started commenting on it because I've only started catching up --- I have more remarks.

I felt like Peter's decision to save his aunt's life was completely selfish. It was all about how he couldn't live with the guilt, rather than her death itself that seemed to matter more to him.

I understand that guilt is pretty much a theme that the character has always wrestled with, but it felt like the choice he had to make was less about May vs. Mary Jane, and more about what Peter could "live with". In that sense, it cheapened the situation because both the marriage and May's life were reduced to commodities in which the lives involved didn't matter.

I think the Mephisto Ex Machina only made it worse, because instead of it being a literal choice to be made --- as Bass has cleverly pointed out some months ago --- it was a choice that was made without suspense: The time in which May had and the time which the decision had to made was entirely up to Mephisto, rather than the natural forces of deathification.

Hypothetically, you could have Mephisto give Peter days and days to decide while he magicks May's deathification process for as long as his patience lasts. (Which of course, would buy the situation time to be resolved by other deus ex machinas, but oh wait, Dr. Strange 'can't do anything')

Another thing: The goal of One More Day was ostensibly to reset continuity --- even though Peter's unmasking was followed by promises that there wouldn't be any undo buttons for a year or two --- in order to make the character single again and more accessible to a YOUNGER audience, and stripped of old guy things like 'marriage', 'children' and 'dying parent figures'.

As I've said earlier, the means in accomplishing this was just stupid because it basically told us that Marvel is run by an editor that is SOOOOOO morally conscious as to refuse to depict smoking in comics, yet is okay with having Peter Parker --- arguably one of the most morally introspective, albeit neurotic, characters in comicsdom --- make a deal with the Devil.

And as I've said above, the decision was never about Peter trying to do something FOR May, it was about Peter trying to do something for HIMself. Let's face it: Peter refuses to experience the passing of his aunt, the way a mature person should and the way a 'role model' should encourage younger readers to.
 
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

the thing that bothers me about this whole deal with the devil thing is that

Peter has me Ghost Rider, at least a few times, he should know by now that this won't turn out like he hopes. Watch in 6 month's May will die anyway just so Mephisto can see Peter in even more Anguish
 
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

Peter has me Ghost Rider, at least a few times, he should know by now that this won't turn out like he hopes. Watch in 6 month's May will die anyway just so Mephisto can see Peter in even more Anguish

Nothing ever turns out like peter hopes , From his daughter dying to trying to be a wrestler to getting a new costume that makes him stronger.


Everything goes wrong for him because he's peter. So with this he's probably like "if i do it'll go wrong , if i don't I'll loose may ..... I'll do it . if it goes wrong it will just create a new villain or something for me to beat up , not a problem"



would you like him to start a drinking game?

Drinking is not a game it's just something you constantly do , what's next a breathing game :lol:
 
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Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

I felt like Peter's decision to save his aunt's life was completely selfish. It was all about how he couldn't live with the guilt, rather than her death itself that seemed to matter more to him.

I understand that guilt is pretty much a theme that the character has always wrestled with

This is an excellent point - one of the main themes of this book has always been guilt and dealing with it in order to do what is right; living with the consequences of your actions, no matter how bad.

But there's no "dealing with" or "living with" going on here. He doesn't remember anything! This does absolutely ZERO for character development; all it does is give bad writers who are unable to write within the confines of 40+ years of character development an excuse to suck.

We already have an Ultimate Spider-Man, fer ****'s sake.
 
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

This is an excellent point - one of the main themes of this book has always been guilt and dealing with it in order to do what is right; living with the consequences of your actions, no matter how bad.

But there's no "dealing with" or "living with" going on here. He doesn't remember anything! This does absolutely ZERO for character development; all it does is give bad writers who are unable to write within the confines of 40+ years of character development an excuse to suck.
God, I almost forgot about that whole "he doesn't remember anything" business.

Now it's even worse than I thought.

First he makes a deal so that he doesn't have to live with losing Aunt May.

Now he doesn't even remember making the deal.

Double arrested development.

If we had sigpics, you can bet your booties I'd have one for this turn of events, as I haven't felt this annoyed since Ultimate Iron Man (yes, I took The Other and Illuminati into account).
 
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

bnd01.jpg


there is so much wrong with this image, Parker Luck? 4th wall breaking narration? didn't Loeb's arc on Wolverine prove that it doesn't work?

What if Peter's talking to someone? Then it's not 'breaking the 4th wall'.

Parker Luck - I assumed he meant his continuous BAD luck, and he's going, "Listen, here I am, kissing this super hot chick and you think this is my life, well let me explain something to you - I have THE PARKER LUCK. A virulent form of bad luck so intense, they can bottle it and sell it to X-Factor celebrities."

Alternatively - maybe he's lying. We'll see. I think it's not fair to jump to conclusions.

HOWEVER - I will say that I do not like the idea that MJ is retconned out of his love life and the next page is him MAKING OUT WITH ANOTHER WOMAN.

Too soon. Too soon. Emotionally, it feels like he's cheating.

I think the Mephisto Ex Machina only made it worse, because instead of it being a literal choice to be made --- as Bass has cleverly pointed out some months ago --- it was a choice that was made without suspense: The time in which May had and the time which the decision had to made was entirely up to Mephisto, rather than the natural forces of deathification.

Super points for "deathification".

And as I've said above, the decision was never about Peter trying to do something FOR May, it was about Peter trying to do something for HIMself. Let's face it: Peter refuses to experience the passing of his aunt, the way a mature person should and the way a 'role model' should encourage younger readers to.

That's a more mature ending but it doesn't solve a problem, which is Spider-Man is too far from his roots (and I agree).

I think, when Spidey is MARRIED, LIVING WITH THE AVENGERS, and UNMASKED, the last thing keeping him feel at all like Spidey is Aunt May. Kill her off, and he's just not Spidey anymore. And what you're getting isn't much better.

I think that idea is great for a "SPIDER-MAN: THE END".

For this - I don't care anymore. I'm excited about us having SPIDEY back. I'm sure the comics will still have sucky writers, but I'm just energized by it all.

I hope JMS gets a commission..

Cafe Press

:lol: :lol: :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

The more you guys point out the flaws the more I will never read another normal Spider-Man book again.
 
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

The six page preview is interesting.

I might pick this up.
 
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

Parker Luck - I assumed he meant his continuous BAD luck, and he's going, "Listen, here I am, kissing this super hot chick and you think this is my life, well let me explain something to you - I have THE PARKER LUCK. A virulent form of bad luck so intense, they can bottle it and sell it to X-Factor celebrities."

I had TEH RAGE and had not considered this possibility. Good point.
 
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

What if Peter's talking to someone? Then it's not 'breaking the 4th wall'.

Parker Luck - I assumed he meant his continuous BAD luck, and he's going, "Listen, here I am, kissing this super hot chick and you think this is my life, well let me explain something to you - I have THE PARKER LUCK. A virulent form of bad luck so intense, they can bottle it and sell it to X-Factor celebrities."
That's what I thought too.

I've never ever known the Parker Luck as anything but bad luck since the 1980s, so I seriously thought that was what was happening here.

Bass said:
That's a more mature ending but it doesn't solve a problem, which is Spider-Man is too far from his roots (and I agree).
I don't necessarily subscribe to either camp of 1-800-MAYLIVES or 1-800-MAYDIES, so I DO agree with you to some extent, but to me that is the only reasonable way to deal with Aunt May on her deathbed AGAIN. She gets shot, poisoned by the Green Goblin, accidentally killed in a battle during a wedding with Doc Ock, and she dies, or maybe Spidey saves her I don't know.

But certainly, there is no Mephisto involved, and if there was then Peter acts like a grown-up and asks the question that neither he or MJ seem to have considered before midnight which is What Would Aunt May Want?

If Joe says he wants to tell stories with a single Spider-Man, there's like a billion ways to do it. Marvel Adventures Spider-Man, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane, a comic based on a soon to be running animated series, miniseries like Spider-Man: Blue. As it is, it's the married Spider-Man who seems to be the minority.

And if he really wants a single Spider-Man, there's always divorce.
 
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

The more you guys point out the flaws the more I will never read another normal Spider-Man book again.
I don't really see it as a totally flaw-riddled project, so much as it is a project that took a wrong turn in every way possible. Every premise is understandable, it's just that the answer to each premise is WRONG.
  • There's no place to tell single Spider-Man stories? Wrong. There's Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane, MA Spider-Man, Ultimate Spider-Man and animated Spider-Man, movie Spider-Man, Spider-Man comic in a cereal box.

  • Okay, let's be fair. Maybe they want to tell single Spider-Man stories in the 616 setting with all the continuity it entails. Then divorce the character! We're in the 21st century, where Americans under 30 are getting divorced all the time, so it's not like it AGES Peter Parker in the way it worries everyone.

  • But wait! Divorce taints the character by making him seem less virtuous! We could quibble over that for years, but let's say I 'agree'. The best alternative would be to give Peter the hard choice: Mary Jane or May! Have a building fall on May while a pumpkin bomb flies at MJ!

  • "But Peter can't, won't, SHAN'T make that choice!" is what other people have argued. To which I say, YES HE CAN and SHOULD. He has to be torn between the choice, because that's the point of the character... to agonize about zigging where he should have zagged. So they rig the whole thing as Mephisto's infernal ability to suspend space, time & deathification, which is all sorts of stupid, because it buys the story a lot of wiggle room in terms of time and deus ex machina.

  • Let's say I suspend my preferences and say, "I'm willing to go with this Devil thing. Let's see how this plays out." Mephisto offers May's life for Pete/MJ's marriage. They decide to go with keeping Aunt May and losing the marriage. It's an absolutely retarded direction to make because you end up causing thousands of continuity headaches. Better to keep the marriage and avoid this garbage!

  • But fine, maybe I shouldn't second-guess or argue the decision. If Peter wants to save Aunt May then it's his prerogative as a character. But it's not about saving Aunt May, it's about him refusing to deal with/experience the thought, no the reality, of having to lose Aunt May. It's not about her, it's about him.

  • And last, but not least important of all, What would Aunt May want?
 
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

Aunt May wants to finally freaking die!

...oh, wait, no, that's just me.

Besides, Aunt MAy has died at least three times before now, and Peter just lived with it until it was retconned. And he not only can't take it again, but makes what's essentially a deal with the devil to get out of it.

It's irresponsible.
 
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Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

2-page spread by JRJR explaining Pet'es new status quo answer's a few question's

Link

so apparently nobody...absolutely NOBODY know's who Spider-Man, Harry was the Green Goblin but he doesn't remember it, and people remember Spider-Man unmasking in Civil War but for some reason nobody can remember who was under the mask

hu-pu-hwa-gah

*head 'splodes*
 
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

Curse you Gemini and your posting the same thing I posted 2 minutes earlier!!!
 
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Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)

2-page spread by JRJR explaining Pet'es new status quo answer's a few question's

Link

so apparently nobody...absolutely NOBODY know's who Spider-Man, Harry was the Green Goblin but he doesn't remember it, and people remember Spider-Man unmasking in Civil War but for some reason nobody can remember who was under the mask

hu-pu-hwa-gah

*head 'splodes*



has this changed eddie back into venom ? or not :cry: I'm almost starting to give up hope
 

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