Random
Didn't **** any of those *****es
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
Yeah that's why One More piece of monkey feces is stupid
Yeah that's why One More piece of monkey feces is stupid
Spider-Man Amazing Spider-Man: Brand New Day (#546-567) (Spoilers)
- Thread starter Gemini
- Start date
Rawb
Well-Known Member
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
Hey Guys,
Just read the latest ASM. While one more day was just plain silly I have to admit that I enjoyed this issue. I really did enjoy spider-man more when he wasn't married, and MJ just annoyed me. We'll still have plenty of MJ since he's tied to her waist in USM.
It seems the biggest beef isn't so much the reboot, well that's wrong, as it certainly is the reboot as well, but more on the way it's done. I think the most annoying aspect is the use of magic and how in this case it doesn't make sense. And it doesn't not really, but perhaps I can help!
This whole thing kind of reminds me of one of my favorite book series written by Terry Goodking. In the last 3 books there was a spell (it's a fantasy) called Chainfire that was ignited throughout the world. What Chainfire did was cause everyone to forget that one person existed. Even if they saw the person they would instantly forget them making them for all intents and purposes invisible. Anyways the thing about it is it didn't change the past or anything, just conviently filled the gaps in their memory with another version of the story, even if they were ILLOGICAL or CONTRADICTORY.
I guess what my point is it's like the civil war and stuff happened the way we saw but was changed and filled in with stuff that may not make sense, ie, him unmasking, but due to the nature of the "spell" the gap is just filled in with something else. Unfortunately, even if you follow that, it wouldn't explain how Harry came back and so forth, and I know it's not as simple as making someone forget a person, but I found it very similar and worth mentioning.
Er, anyways. BND wasn't too bad, I like old school Spidey.
Hey Guys,
Just read the latest ASM. While one more day was just plain silly I have to admit that I enjoyed this issue. I really did enjoy spider-man more when he wasn't married, and MJ just annoyed me. We'll still have plenty of MJ since he's tied to her waist in USM.
It seems the biggest beef isn't so much the reboot, well that's wrong, as it certainly is the reboot as well, but more on the way it's done. I think the most annoying aspect is the use of magic and how in this case it doesn't make sense. And it doesn't not really, but perhaps I can help!
This whole thing kind of reminds me of one of my favorite book series written by Terry Goodking. In the last 3 books there was a spell (it's a fantasy) called Chainfire that was ignited throughout the world. What Chainfire did was cause everyone to forget that one person existed. Even if they saw the person they would instantly forget them making them for all intents and purposes invisible. Anyways the thing about it is it didn't change the past or anything, just conviently filled the gaps in their memory with another version of the story, even if they were ILLOGICAL or CONTRADICTORY.
I guess what my point is it's like the civil war and stuff happened the way we saw but was changed and filled in with stuff that may not make sense, ie, him unmasking, but due to the nature of the "spell" the gap is just filled in with something else. Unfortunately, even if you follow that, it wouldn't explain how Harry came back and so forth, and I know it's not as simple as making someone forget a person, but I found it very similar and worth mentioning.
Er, anyways. BND wasn't too bad, I like old school Spidey.
ourchair
Well-Known Member
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
I believe more than one writer --- Bendis, too --- has put Spidey in a situation unmasked and when the person sees his face, they just go, "I don't know who this is." Or, "It's just some nobody."
That might work here, considering that Peter Parker --- a former freelance photographer, and now a schoolteacher --- isn't exactly a recognizable face.
The only time I think Parker ever became a 'face' was when he briefly did a talk-show circuit to promote his photography book, "Webs" and if he's been de-aged a bit, then maybe that book never happened.
Yeah, these are total No-Prize excuses, but STILL.
I haven't read the issue, so I guess I can't really speak in terms of how that was presented, or how the context works or whatever, but it's not completely unbelievable.
I believe more than one writer --- Bendis, too --- has put Spidey in a situation unmasked and when the person sees his face, they just go, "I don't know who this is." Or, "It's just some nobody."
That might work here, considering that Peter Parker --- a former freelance photographer, and now a schoolteacher --- isn't exactly a recognizable face.
The only time I think Parker ever became a 'face' was when he briefly did a talk-show circuit to promote his photography book, "Webs" and if he's been de-aged a bit, then maybe that book never happened.
Yeah, these are total No-Prize excuses, but STILL.
Joe Kalicki
Well-Known Member
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
But it still doesn't explain why nobody would know who he is.
For God's sake, people remember Richard Jewell, and he's as nobody as you can get.
And dead now too.
But it still doesn't explain why nobody would know who he is.
For God's sake, people remember Richard Jewell, and he's as nobody as you can get.
And dead now too.
ourchair
Well-Known Member
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
Mephisto didn't create a logical situation where everyone just didn't remember who that unmasked Spider-Man was. He created an ILLOGICAL one. And that might be the whole point.
Everyone saw Peter Parker, but because Mephisto ****ed with reality, he basically made it so that people COULDN'T remember Peter Parker/Spider-Man unmasked even when his mug was broadcast all across TV.
In short, they don't remember because Mephisto said so, even though he didn't alter the circumstances of unmasking that would render The Secret Identity implausible.
I think Slott might be suggesting something unconciously here, though:
He doesn't really address why people wouldn't remember who Peter is, but I think he implicitly suggests something about the metaphysics of comic book continuity.Dan Slott said:
Mephisto didn't create a logical situation where everyone just didn't remember who that unmasked Spider-Man was. He created an ILLOGICAL one. And that might be the whole point.
Everyone saw Peter Parker, but because Mephisto ****ed with reality, he basically made it so that people COULDN'T remember Peter Parker/Spider-Man unmasked even when his mug was broadcast all across TV.
In short, they don't remember because Mephisto said so, even though he didn't alter the circumstances of unmasking that would render The Secret Identity implausible.
Joe Kalicki
Well-Known Member
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
Right, that's what I figured, but what you said before is that they just don't remember him because he's a nobody.
I read that Iron Man/Captain America Annual, and it seems like basically the same thing happened here, only through Mephisting.
What I want to know is, does Peter know that nobody knows his ID? Does he know that people used to and don't anymore?
Right, that's what I figured, but what you said before is that they just don't remember him because he's a nobody.
I read that Iron Man/Captain America Annual, and it seems like basically the same thing happened here, only through Mephisting.
What I want to know is, does Peter know that nobody knows his ID? Does he know that people used to and don't anymore?
ourchair
Well-Known Member
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
But I didn't argue it so simply though, nor was I really supporting it as the complete reason, having not actually read the issue yet.
This is why One More Day was so wrong.
Yes.
But I didn't argue it so simply though, nor was I really supporting it as the complete reason, having not actually read the issue yet.
HEADACHE.Joe Kalicki said:
This is why One More Day was so wrong.
Joe Kalicki
Well-Known Member
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
Especially since the wedding night "still happened," only without the wedding, and if I'm not mistaken, that's when Mary Jane revealed she ALWAYS knew Peter was Spider-Man because she used to wtach him sneak out of his window at night.
And, of course, none of any of it explains Harry or the web shooters.
Especially since the wedding night "still happened," only without the wedding, and if I'm not mistaken, that's when Mary Jane revealed she ALWAYS knew Peter was Spider-Man because she used to wtach him sneak out of his window at night.
And, of course, none of any of it explains Harry or the web shooters.
Rawb
Well-Known Member
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
Another thing is, if he doesn't have the organic webbing, is he powered down now? I recall that after his "evolution" he was faster, almost twice as strong, his spider sense was better, his clinging ability improved, he had night vision or something... honestly, aside from organic webbing I really enjoyed the power upgrade. The stingers were lame, and are gone.. so I imagine he's been powered down.
Another thing is, if he doesn't have the organic webbing, is he powered down now? I recall that after his "evolution" he was faster, almost twice as strong, his spider sense was better, his clinging ability improved, he had night vision or something... honestly, aside from organic webbing I really enjoyed the power upgrade. The stingers were lame, and are gone.. so I imagine he's been powered down.
ourchair
Well-Known Member
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
However, I don't have a problem with the whole "they had a wedding but it never pushed through" premise. So far, I imagine it as a 'the wedding arrangements happened, but the ceremony fell apart."
I don't know how the whole 'I always knew' played out, but I'll take your word for it.
However, I don't have a problem with the whole "they had a wedding but it never pushed through" premise. So far, I imagine it as a 'the wedding arrangements happened, but the ceremony fell apart."
Hellsbuttmonkey
Well-Known Member
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
Best term ever invented since nanomonkeys.
Best term ever invented since nanomonkeys.
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
I was thinking it's kind of the opposite - the story itself is stupid but the way it was done (the execution of a stupid idea) was much better than maybe it should have been.
I was thinking it's kind of the opposite - the story itself is stupid but the way it was done (the execution of a stupid idea) was much better than maybe it should have been.
Gemini
Well-Known Member
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
I wonder if this means that Ben Reilly never knew who Spider-Man was.
and MJ still knows right? that was part of the deal right? right?
I wonder if this means that Ben Reilly never knew who Spider-Man was.
and MJ still knows right? that was part of the deal right? right?
Joe Kalicki
Well-Known Member
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
Although I made it up independently on my own, I have seen it around the internets too, so it is a great term, but apparently not overly clever.
Although I made it up independently on my own, I have seen it around the internets too, so it is a great term, but apparently not overly clever.
Random
Didn't **** any of those *****es
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
I see it as two part to the Mephisting. Part one Mephisto rewrites reality so that the wedding never happened, so the future changed, but didn't effect Big things since Peter is still Doing the Spider-man thing only not married. Part two, MJ makes a separate deal where Mesphisto erases the memories and record's of Spider-man's identity. It wasn't the marriage not happening that made people forget. I would only except that second part if other people, like Iron Man and Dr Strange investigating what the **** happened to that knowledge.
I see it as a ripple effect, since Peter didn't get married situations turn out a little different, major events like HoM, Civil War, etc. are relatively unaffected. cause really how much would person affairs contribute to big things like that?
I see it as two part to the Mephisting. Part one Mephisto rewrites reality so that the wedding never happened, so the future changed, but didn't effect Big things since Peter is still Doing the Spider-man thing only not married. Part two, MJ makes a separate deal where Mesphisto erases the memories and record's of Spider-man's identity. It wasn't the marriage not happening that made people forget. I would only except that second part if other people, like Iron Man and Dr Strange investigating what the **** happened to that knowledge.
Yep, and its the best thing to come out of this mess. If they didn't undo that ridiculous crap I would have burned down Marvel Headquarters and close every site in exsistence
Oh boy, they're bringing back Ben Reilly
I dont recall it ever being stated, but I would definitely guess
Dr.Strangefate
He Sees You When You're Sleeping. He Knows When Yo
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
Or how about the Jackal in general...
Did he just have no idea whatsoever who he was cloning? They were just clones of some guy??
Or how about the Jackal in general...
Did he just have no idea whatsoever who he was cloning? They were just clones of some guy??
Bass
Nexus of the World
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
It's like the Sentry. Loads of holes in his "no one can remember me" world - lots of things missing and not making sense; but no one noticed until Sentry started poking at it. Worked fine for him.
Exactly. There's no out for the marriage (because divorce is off the table, whether you like it or not) so they do this silly thing, get rid of the marriage, and now they have, it seems, a new life to Spidey. Which is great, because I feel he's been god awful boring for years. The last big reboot of Spidey, with JMS and Ramos and what not, MJ was absent, Spidey was on his own... it was old school. Then they had to address MJ, brought her back and it fell back to the boring nonsense it had been. Now, we're in the good 'classic' place again and hopefully it'll last longer this time round.
It's like the Sentry. Loads of holes in his "no one can remember me" world - lots of things missing and not making sense; but no one noticed until Sentry started poking at it. Worked fine for him.
Exactly. There's no out for the marriage (because divorce is off the table, whether you like it or not) so they do this silly thing, get rid of the marriage, and now they have, it seems, a new life to Spidey. Which is great, because I feel he's been god awful boring for years. The last big reboot of Spidey, with JMS and Ramos and what not, MJ was absent, Spidey was on his own... it was old school. Then they had to address MJ, brought her back and it fell back to the boring nonsense it had been. Now, we're in the good 'classic' place again and hopefully it'll last longer this time round.
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
Except that was well explained and made sense. This isn't. Mephisto doesn't have these powers. Sentry had a robot doing it.
That was my point before - the character himself is not boring. He didn't become boring when he got married. He's boring because bad writers are writing boring stories. They don't have the ability to write him in the situation he's in, so they create this convoluted, stupid idea of a story to change the character and dumb him down so that they can apply their limited ability.
Like I said, they're giving themselves an excuse to suck.
Except that was well explained and made sense. This isn't. Mephisto doesn't have these powers. Sentry had a robot doing it.
That was my point before - the character himself is not boring. He didn't become boring when he got married. He's boring because bad writers are writing boring stories. They don't have the ability to write him in the situation he's in, so they create this convoluted, stupid idea of a story to change the character and dumb him down so that they can apply their limited ability.
Like I said, they're giving themselves an excuse to suck.
Bass
Nexus of the World
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
...
"Mephisto, the devil, makes everyone forget" makes less sense than, "A robot did it"?!?!?!
After reading UNIVERSE X, I'm fine with Mephisto altering reality. Hell, it makes sense that he can. And he shouldn't explain the methodology to Spidey on how he does it. In UNIVERSE X, Mephisto goes ahead and rewrites reality using time travel. He could have done the same here. And he wouldn't go, "This is how I did it." He ain't the masked magician.
However - "well explained" I'll agree with. The Sentry storyline revolved around those inconsistencies whereas here they're kinda, "Erm... LOOK OVER THERE! SPIDEY'S KISSING SOMEONE! HARRY'S BACK!". So yeah, better explained, but I don't find it to be a confusing headache of rage-inducing problems.
It's not about whether or not Spidey's marriage inherently made him boring or not - it's about Spidey's marriage making him inherently un-Spidey.
A married superhero CAN work. No reason why it can't.
But a married SPIDER-MAN doesn't - because it's not SPIDER-MAN. Spider-Man has to be down on his luck, and ultimately, alone. If he can keep coming home to a gorgeous sexbomb model of a wife, it's hard for him to retain that atmosphere.
Marrying Spider-Man is somewhat antithetical to the character, so when a writer is given the task of writing him, it CAN work, sure. But it means you have to write a bunch of non-Spidey scenes.
Think of SPIDER-MAN as a micro-genre. In a serious anti-war film, AIRPLANE like gags are inappropriate. A strange dream sequence, fine in a drama, wouldn't work in DIE HARD. Spidey, as a micro-genre, has that great, great, GREAT convention: "Spidey can't get the girl."
He can't get the girl because he stands her up at the prom because he's beating Doc Ock. He can't get the girl because she only likes Spidey, not Peter. He can't get the girl because the villain threatens her. He can't get the girl...
Spidey has a wife - that convention DIES. And it's an important one. Spidey is a teenage boy. "Can't get the girl" is a terrific scene for him. Married - it don't exist.
So I agree - marriage didn't make Spidey boring, but it removed a key component of the stories that character is built to tell.
...
"Mephisto, the devil, makes everyone forget" makes less sense than, "A robot did it"?!?!?!
After reading UNIVERSE X, I'm fine with Mephisto altering reality. Hell, it makes sense that he can. And he shouldn't explain the methodology to Spidey on how he does it. In UNIVERSE X, Mephisto goes ahead and rewrites reality using time travel. He could have done the same here. And he wouldn't go, "This is how I did it." He ain't the masked magician.
However - "well explained" I'll agree with. The Sentry storyline revolved around those inconsistencies whereas here they're kinda, "Erm... LOOK OVER THERE! SPIDEY'S KISSING SOMEONE! HARRY'S BACK!". So yeah, better explained, but I don't find it to be a confusing headache of rage-inducing problems.
It's not about whether or not Spidey's marriage inherently made him boring or not - it's about Spidey's marriage making him inherently un-Spidey.
A married superhero CAN work. No reason why it can't.
But a married SPIDER-MAN doesn't - because it's not SPIDER-MAN. Spider-Man has to be down on his luck, and ultimately, alone. If he can keep coming home to a gorgeous sexbomb model of a wife, it's hard for him to retain that atmosphere.
Marrying Spider-Man is somewhat antithetical to the character, so when a writer is given the task of writing him, it CAN work, sure. But it means you have to write a bunch of non-Spidey scenes.
Think of SPIDER-MAN as a micro-genre. In a serious anti-war film, AIRPLANE like gags are inappropriate. A strange dream sequence, fine in a drama, wouldn't work in DIE HARD. Spidey, as a micro-genre, has that great, great, GREAT convention: "Spidey can't get the girl."
He can't get the girl because he stands her up at the prom because he's beating Doc Ock. He can't get the girl because she only likes Spidey, not Peter. He can't get the girl because the villain threatens her. He can't get the girl...
Spidey has a wife - that convention DIES. And it's an important one. Spidey is a teenage boy. "Can't get the girl" is a terrific scene for him. Married - it don't exist.
So I agree - marriage didn't make Spidey boring, but it removed a key component of the stories that character is built to tell.
Ultimate Houde
UC's Resident Genetic Recombinator
Re: Amazing Spider-Man series discussion (spoilers)
So, they lose on story telling element, and that makes him Un-Spidey?
That's just poor writing on the writers part Bass
So, they lose on story telling element, and that makes him Un-Spidey?
That's just poor writing on the writers part Bass
