Dr.Strangefate
He Sees You When You're Sleeping. He Knows When Yo
The pearl harbor thing would be more effective if it hadnt been super delayed...
And I am soooo confused.
And I am soooo confused.
Ultimates V2 #9 discussion (SPOILERS!!)
- Thread starter MoS
- Start date
Bass
Nexus of the World
Ultimate Galactus said:
That's really cool. I'll bet that was the reason for the delay.
cmdrjanjalani
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2004
- Messages
- 707
Just read the issue. Oh my God, I almost did not care that I bought USM on the same day.
This is probably one of the best issues I've read in my life. This new anti-Ultimates organization rocks, I'm betting that it is Hydra. SHIELD thought that they've already cut down every international threat they would face, and more just grew back to crush them. The dark green uniform of the grunts may also be a clue.
Gotta agree with Bass, the revelation of the traitor was anticlimactic. I was actually more shocked to find out that Loki was real, even though I already believed he was, and Jarvis getting a head shot.
But the invasion itself was awesome. I really want to read #10 now. And I knew that the guy in Ultimate Nightmare was (or at least looked more like) Titanium Man. With the overwhelming odds against the Ultimates, it begs me to wonder how they will bring them down by the end of the book.
This is probably one of the best issues I've read in my life. This new anti-Ultimates organization rocks, I'm betting that it is Hydra. SHIELD thought that they've already cut down every international threat they would face, and more just grew back to crush them. The dark green uniform of the grunts may also be a clue.
Gotta agree with Bass, the revelation of the traitor was anticlimactic. I was actually more shocked to find out that Loki was real, even though I already believed he was, and Jarvis getting a head shot.
But the invasion itself was awesome. I really want to read #10 now. And I knew that the guy in Ultimate Nightmare was (or at least looked more like) Titanium Man. With the overwhelming odds against the Ultimates, it begs me to wonder how they will bring them down by the end of the book.
Bass
Nexus of the World
Just remembered something I forgot to mention.
I'm wondering if Red Skull took the same super soldier serum as Captain America. I assume this means he's quite aware it's only a matter of time before the damn thing kills him, making him a superhuman equivalent of a suicide bomber.
Also, remember Millar talked about how Cap's super soldier serum is wearing off slowly? He said that would be a big part of Grand Theft America.
It's yet to be mentioned.
Same goes for Ultron.
:drooling:
I'm wondering if Red Skull took the same super soldier serum as Captain America. I assume this means he's quite aware it's only a matter of time before the damn thing kills him, making him a superhuman equivalent of a suicide bomber.
Also, remember Millar talked about how Cap's super soldier serum is wearing off slowly? He said that would be a big part of Grand Theft America.
It's yet to be mentioned.
Same goes for Ultron.
:drooling:
Last edited:
TheManWithoutFear
#1 reason not to join UC
Very interesting. The suicide bomber is a nice call. But I don't want to loose this guy just yet. If this is Red Skull and he believe he's doing the right thing. I want to see what he does when his side start getting there *** kicked.Bass said:
You know what else I'm happy about? No one is *****ing this is gonna come down to a good guy vs. bad guy classic battle.
Jackie Estacado
Best. Avatar. Ever.
people are still sayinbg the fury is the traitor (which i odn't believe he is mind), but whether or not this is true he is directly responsible for what happened in this ish. he's been gathering forces, making a new and bigger team thinking that he was untouchable - refer back to his exchange in the ultimates annual. it's his arrogance that has caused america to have it's *** handed to them! :x
Jackie said:
It's partly his fault. It's certainly also the fault of the invaders!
This is a bunch of macho schoolboys playing in the world's schoolyard and no one wanted to be the one to back down. Sure, the bald bully with an eye patch pushing around the little guys deserved a spanking. Doesn't mean it's okay for all the little guys to draw knives and stick the bully. Understandable, but not right.
No matter who wins the war, the only real winner so far is Loki. He's the God of Mischief, after all.
Last edited:
TheManWithoutFear
#1 reason not to join UC
I agree Fury got power hungry and he'll suffer some consequences for it. And I've seen everyone on the net keep saying stuff like maybe Natasha isn't the traitor and then they go on and on about someone else betraying the team (I'm not referring to Bass/DIrishB's Iron Man right now). Some people need to move on. Just because a character's flawed doesn't mean you have to take him to the extreme and turn him into a traitor.
Bass
Nexus of the World
This is what I was saying.
The moral argument in current policies of war is "pre-emption versus retaliation". If you believe someone is going to attack you (Iraq, Iran, North Korea, et al), you have evidence of them building weapons to fight you - should you attack them first? If you believe someone has persecuted your people and your country (United States of America, Russia, Israel, et al), you have evidence of their attacks and they won't stop - should you attack them in order to destroy them?
What's clever is Millar played this against the current war-footing agenda. He linked it to arms races - the idea is that military institutions, continually surrounded by enemies, try to make a weapon that will destroy the enemy. Then the enemy has to build a weapon better than that, and it progresses ad infinitum as we have now nuclear weapons and governments trying to make missile defence systems against those.
Using superheroes as a metaphor for weapons and war, Millar links the paranoid thinking of an arms race to our current dilemma of pre-emption versus retaliation and provides us with the truth - they're both as bad as each other. Give humanity enough ammunition and it will shoot itself. It doesn't matter who started it if everyone just continues it. Any righteousness is lost when innocent civilians lose their homes and their lives.
I'm certain that as the next issues come out, we'll hear that it the civilian casualties in America was a proportionate response for civilian deaths during America military operations and a neccessary part of the operation to cripple the 'empire'.
Pre-emption and retaliation both lead to escalation of civilian casualties. Sounds about right to me.
The moral argument in current policies of war is "pre-emption versus retaliation". If you believe someone is going to attack you (Iraq, Iran, North Korea, et al), you have evidence of them building weapons to fight you - should you attack them first? If you believe someone has persecuted your people and your country (United States of America, Russia, Israel, et al), you have evidence of their attacks and they won't stop - should you attack them in order to destroy them?
What's clever is Millar played this against the current war-footing agenda. He linked it to arms races - the idea is that military institutions, continually surrounded by enemies, try to make a weapon that will destroy the enemy. Then the enemy has to build a weapon better than that, and it progresses ad infinitum as we have now nuclear weapons and governments trying to make missile defence systems against those.
Using superheroes as a metaphor for weapons and war, Millar links the paranoid thinking of an arms race to our current dilemma of pre-emption versus retaliation and provides us with the truth - they're both as bad as each other. Give humanity enough ammunition and it will shoot itself. It doesn't matter who started it if everyone just continues it. Any righteousness is lost when innocent civilians lose their homes and their lives.
I'm certain that as the next issues come out, we'll hear that it the civilian casualties in America was a proportionate response for civilian deaths during America military operations and a neccessary part of the operation to cripple the 'empire'.
Pre-emption and retaliation both lead to escalation of civilian casualties. Sounds about right to me.
Entropy
Well-Known Member
Bass said:
You know, I was just thinking of something. What if Millar takes a page from Watchmen, about the idea that humanity needs an external threat to struggle against to truly unite? What if that threat turns out to be Ultron and Loki? It's just an offhand thought, and I'm not too sure it jives with Millars style for this series, but the way a similar tactic was employed at the end of Red Son makes me think it's at least a possibility.
Boondock Jew
Member
Entropy said:
So Gah Lak Tus wasn't enough of an external threat? Don't get me wrong, I certainly agree you'll never get the human race to stop fighting, you just gotta give it something else to fight besides eachother. But as soon as that little problem is taken care of, we just got back to beating on eachother.
Aaah, don't you just love human nature?
TheManWithoutFear
#1 reason not to join UC
This is exactly whyBoondock Jew said:
A. Galactus never reaches Earth. Which would make more sense than anything.
B. Extinction should take place after this.
ProjectX2
Don't expect me to take you with me when I go to s
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2004
- Messages
- 25,007
How do we know Xavier just doesn't mindwipe everyone on earth so they don't die from the shock of nearly being eaten by a plague of intergalactic bugs?
TheManWithoutFear
#1 reason not to join UC
Him and Jean are supposed to play a big part, right?ProjectX2 said:
ProjectX2
Don't expect me to take you with me when I go to s
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2004
- Messages
- 25,007
TheManWithoutFear said:
Ellis said they did...
DIrishB
The Timeline Guy
John Q. Public said:
Shhhhhhh! The opera is starting!
I'm glad you think so, it took me like 2 hours to come up with that.
Nope, I never really got into 616. I think the last 616 comic I bought was Uncanny X-Men #300-something, years and years ago.
ProjectX2 said:
That might be the answer right there, Proj. Good point.
Last edited:
GMaster
Banned
Better yet, why not get Xavier to mindwipe everyone and then explode their heads.ProjectX2 said:
Better yet! Get Xavier to implode their heads!
Better yet! Get Xavier to implode his own head!
Better yet! Get Orson Scot Card to implode his own head!
Better yet! Get Bendis to imblode every single atom of his body!
Better yet! No wait, I can't top that....
Anyway, the point I was trying to make was, Hank has something to play in this at the end. Something he invents has definately played a part, or he ahs done something to help the team. Possibly the same with Banner. Or, I believe that Hank and Banner will save the team. Hulk will return, and I have a feeling Hank will too. Watch this space.
GMaster
Banned
You talkin bout me? You talking bout me? There are so many posts but I'm so egotistical you must be talking bout me.UltimateE said:
No seriously, I was on topic.
Back to my theory:
Loki and his gang of caped crusaders got Hank to help them, saying they would make Hank part of their team. However, Hank realises its wrong, turns himself into an awesome SuperPym-ple and squirts himself all over Loki and the masked marauders. Then Bruce comes, sees the huge mess SumperPym-ple made, and gets angry. And you don't like him when hes angry. So he eats everyone.
DIrishB
The Timeline Guy
GMaster said:
Including the Pym-ple? Gross.
