Ultimates V2 #9 discussion (SPOILERS!!)

[Guijllons]

[Everything]

Y'know, I haven't even read the issue yet and I agree with that.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

So why the **** do the Masters of Evil talk to Loki like they only met five seconds ago? Shouldn't these guys have had months of debriefing and training? They should be beyond the point of small talk? These guys a professionals. No small talk.

Because the audience has to see what he's saying. Besides I get the impression the others weren't as close as Red Skull was with him. I think the best option is while they were training Loki stood in the background making comments and not being personal with them and now that their objective is complete Crimson Dynamo, whose been wondering what Loki's deal was the entire time, finally gets to ask. It shouldn't piss you off that much.

Also - where the **** did this army come from? Now, I understand they had all the security codes so they could get into certain places without being noticed on radars and what not but still - don't Americans have eyes? How the **** do you not SEE these guys coming? The only thing I can think is that they were at very high altitude above clouds, and then they jammed all frequencies and then attacked - which makes sense I suppose. But that doesn't explain where the army came from - how did they build the bloody thing? When and where? I'm assuming this is actually a plot point and possibly Loki allowed them to create the army in an Asgardian realm away from anyone's ability to see them (except Thor). Now that I say this, I realise Millar did something similar in Superman: Red Son.

I bet they built in Latveria :twisted:

And Black Widow is the traitor. I went back and checked my older issues just to make sure. Indeed, the issues state three times the traitor is surprising - "I think you'll be surprised when you find out who" - Loki #5, "I didn't have you pegged as a traitor." - Giant Man #6, "Surprised?" - The Traitor #7. Obviously, I use a different dictionary because Black Widow was the most obvious ****ing suspect. As soon as they said, "traitor" I went "Black Widow. Nah... too obvious." Then it turns out the Black Widow. This isn't a case of 'sour grapes' because Millar 'pulled the wool over my eyes'. The point of a mystery is not to have your friends go online and say, "No one has guessed the traitor" and to have your characters say how surprising it will be when it's the only ****ing commie on the team. This is a case of me thinking Millar is a better writer. Captain America or Iron Man would've been MUCH more exhilerating as the traitor. The story Fury gives for Cap being a traitor in #8 sent chills down my spine as I thought how they've been played right from the beginning. Look at all those Iron Man monsters in #9 - why the hell ISN'T Tony the ****ing traitor? But no, it's ****ing Black Widow. Black Widow as a traitor? Okay, that's not too bad. After NINE MONTHS of waiting and hyping and continuous references that it won't be 'who you expect' it turns out to be Black Widow? BLACK WIDOW? What a ****ing anti-climax. It's one-step better than "There is no traitor, we lied". ****ing waste of everyone's time. For a series that seems quite will to push itself and go as far as it can - it wussed out like a little girl. **** the traitor.

Like I said. When they said "surprised" it wasn't meant for the audience they were talking directly to the characters. Which meant it could've been anyone. And Like I've said there was no proof of anyone being the traitor until he/she hit. So it's not like anyone knew it was her. Just guessed and felt that this so called "cop-out" was better than turning anyone else into a villain.

And give up on Tony being the traitor. I never saw any logic to it. Tony's a good guy he's the most noble and genuine out of all of them. There wasn't a chance he was gonna be the traitor.

I was getting sick and tired of Jarvis and his one-dimension of being perverse and 'shocking'. All his lines were "I'm so shocking and perverse!" Then, he gets shot and I go, "****". Part of me is glad to see him go, but I still felt for the poor blighter. Especially Tony's face in the next panel. I didn't think I'd miss Jarvis. But Hitllar proved me wrong.

You're making me see this differently now. You're right Jarvis did kinda do the same thing over and over. But I'll still miss him.

Quicksilver is a hero. We've seen him slowly getting further and further into the foreground as the title has come on, and he's really shining now. No hesitation, no fear - he's into the fray and saving people and comforting his sister at the same time. The guy's a hero. Shows that his 'I hate humans, and I'm an arrogant son of a *****' was just an act. We're seeing the real Quicksilver now.

Agreed. And I don't think this was in response to people wanting Quicksilver to "Do something" I think Millar was progressively building up Quicksilver's character from "I don't give a **** about anyone else" outcast of the team to "When it comes down to it, I'll do what I have too for the good of it" because that's who he really is. But the team did accept him more and more throughout the series. Same with Wanda.

Scarlet Witch is weird. If I'm right, she altered probability so that the Rocketmen would be able to respond. They seem to be coming from the place where her big pink glow thing came from. I dunno. Scarlet Witch is okay, but I don't know what she actually did this issue at the end.

At least they're trying to showcase her powers.

Also - has anyone forgotten about the Union? Captain Britain, France, Spain, Italy - they're all gonna help. They can't do anything now without support. But Thor's going to lead them into battle. You know it. I know it.

I don't think Thor's gonna lead them into battle. I think they'll come in on their own but remember they're countries are being held hostage too... (Nuclear Codes)

And poor Thor. He's going to kick some ***. And I'm sure Tony's the one who's going to set him free.

I think Fury's going to be the one to let the dogs out. Yeah, everyone wants the dramatics of Tony releasing his ex-friend who he was tricked into thinking was a fake. But I think it'd be a lot better scene if Fury went down looked Cap and Thor right in the eyes said he was sorry and let the dogs of war loose.

The Red Skull (I'm sure it's him - I thought someone else could be the Skull, but I don't see the point) looks unbelievably cool. I love the fact he's a crazy Muslim. No doubt someone, somewhere is claiming this is Islamophobic because there isn't a 'good' Muslim in the story. I would think it's sad writers have to go out of their way to put in 'good' Muslims to prove that most Muslims are 'good'. I would assume most people already think that. That's the problem with political correctness. It assumes everyone is a racist, sexist, homophobic anti-semite. I like my evil, Islamic Red Skull. WHO HAS A ****ING LIGHTSABER! :rockon: Even if the weapon he's carrying starts out as those weird anti-lightsaber sticks Grevious' bodyguards use in III and then the blades grow into Maul's lightsaber - seriously, it just changes on the last page - even if that, The Red Skull (or Darth Red) is ****ing sweet.

Agreed. Great Ultimization.

Loki is an *******. I have never been more certain of him as a 'bad guy'. What a ****ing *******. You know if the other Masters hadn't been there he would've been masturbating.

Again agreed. He's pretty proud of himself.

And Abomination has a tail. Wicked.

Disagree. Hulk doesn't have one (not like it matters cause he's no a product of Gamma Radiation) But more importantly Green Goblin doesn't have one. No one does so how come he does?

I also like the whole ambiguity of this mess. Pre-emption versus Retaliation. Which is the right one to do? Millar's quite clever because he's shown pre-emption leads to retaliation. It's a perpetual cycle of people being in the wrong, each escalating the other into a perpetual frenzy.

Agreed.

I still think this is all an elaborate surprise birthday party.

:lol: :lol:

 

[John Q. Public]

Jarvis is a robot and will save Tony


Spider-man comes along and saves everyone with his friend Jesus

Hey! You never know!

There hasn't been anything anywhere confirming that was Red Guardian. Or even hinting at it for that matter.

I read the 616 Red Guardian issues. No hints were necessary. It was utterly obvious (unless I'm wrong).

 

[Bass]

I bet they built in Latveria :twisted:

I honestly think a mythical Asgardian realm is more likely. But I have to say, Latveria would also be very cool.

And give up on Tony being the traitor. I never saw any logic to it. Tony's a good guy he's the most noble and genuine out of all of them. There wasn't a chance he was gonna be the traitor.

I have given up on him being the traitor. It's Widow. (Unless that's Tony's gun under the pillow and Widow has known Tony's been the traitor sin... ah **** it.) My problem is that I think, considering the moral dilemma of pre-emption versus retaliation, it would've been good if a true good guy (Cap or Tony) had been the traitor. By realising that pre-emption is just as bad as retaliation, that they feed off each other, it would've been a great way for the Ultimates to break from SHIELD.

But, forget that nonsense. On a sheer, "excitement" level, Captain America or Iron Man would've made a better traitor simply. If Cap had never been the real Cap, that would've been ****ing amazing. If Tony had just said, "**** it all" because of his tumour, we would've **** our pants. That's the point. Iron Man, Captain America - they'd have been worth the nine month wait.

Instead, the traitor to the American superheroes is the Russian spy.

Woo-hah.

You're making me see this differently now. You're right Jarvis did kinda do the same thing over and over. But I'll still miss him.

So will I. I didn't think I would, but I did.

I don't think Thor's gonna lead them into battle. I think they'll come in on their own but remember they're countries are being held hostage too... (Nuclear Codes)

Thor was always supposed to lead them, remember? It'd be a nice touch.

Agreed. Great Ultimization.

Islamic military fundamentalist with a lightsaber. Versus Captain America. Hitllar is a genius.

Disagree. Hulk doesn't have one (not like it matters cause he's no a product of Gamma Radiation) But more importantly Green Goblin doesn't have one. No one does so how come he does?

Because Abomination is wicked.

 

[Bass]

So, I was thinking, Loki should've just gone up to the Triskelion, no blowing it up and just showed the triple six he just rolled to Fury and told him to move his armies out of there.

The dude's got all of Asia. That's seven armies a turn. Fury's ****ed.

 

[Bass]

I meant to say this earlier.

How weird is this?

Every Monday (thereabouts) I have a role-playing group and we play for a couple of hours. Currently, I'm the GM (games master - the narrator) and we're using the super-sweet Marvel Super Heroes SAGA Roleplaying Game. It's cool. It uses a deck of cards instead of dice and all the cards have your favourite superheroes on it. There are five suits - Strength, Agility, Intellect, Willpower, and Doom. The game came out around when Earth X was just starting and got discontinued because it wasn't Pokemon. Just before the "Marvel Team-Up" roster book was to come out featuring Spidey's entire rogues gallery, Punisher, Blade, and all the "Marvel Knights" characters. Thankfully the roster book with the rule book has Spidey and all the major superheroes in it, and they managed to get out roster books for the Fantastic Four, X-Men, and the Avengers.

Anyhow, we're using that system but playing in a superhero world I made up. The team these heroes are on are called EPIC (which stands for European Posthuman Initiative of Cooperation - because I couldn't think what the 'C' could stand for) and its a lot of fun.

My point?

Well, on Monday - the Monday just gone, three days ago - I had the big 'pay off'. The players had been chasing this mysterious shadowy villain who seemed to be recruiting supervillains for an army while at the same time having free reign of EPIC. They suspected a traitor. Anyhow, the big villain play took off in this issue and it was pretty much exactly what happened in "Grand Theft America". Seriously. Their base gets compromised and trashed, all the villains show up, and there's a group of mirror villains behind it all. Really. And I've had this whole thing planned since before "Brothers". In other words, I had this storyline worked out when I joined this site.

That kinda scared me more than the lightsaber villains and destruction of Manhattan.

 

[Guijllons]

Do you wear a cloak when you do this?

 

[Jackie Estacado]

sorry if its been mentioned but who can read through 12 pages of this stuff??

but didnt the 'super-humans' flying attack remind amyone that this was done, like many years ago, in the Authority number 1? Hitch must be used to it by now i guess :wink:

still loved the issue, cracking overall and some cool surprises

 

[Ultimate Houde]

So, I was thinking, Loki should've just gone up to the Triskelion, no blowing it up and just showed the triple six he just rolled to Fury and told him to move his armies out of there.

The dude's got all of Asia. That's seven armies a turn. Fury's ****ed.

Not really, if Fury can hold on to Austraila and Africa, he'll get five armies a turn, and if he's able to conquer a country, like Indonesia, he'll be able to get a card and cash it in for fifteen new armies.

 

[Bass]

Do you wear a cloak when you do this?

From now on, I will.

Not really, if Fury can hold on to Austraila and Africa, he'll get five armies a turn, and if he's able to conquer a country, like Indonesia, he'll be able to get a card and cash it in for fifteen new armies.

And that's #10 folks!

 

[MoS]

It had to be Black Widow at Hawkeye's house (he clearly knew the person). So if she'd been the traitor all along, why did she go to such great lengths to save Hawkeye in their debut back in V1?

 

[Guijllons]

It had to be Black Widow at Hawkeye's house (he clearly knew the person). So if she'd been the traitor all along, why did she go to such great lengths to save Hawkeye in their debut back in V1?

Hawkeye knew all of the Ultimates, we don't know why Cap showed up on the screens yet. She didn't let him die because it wasn't the right time, this was a carefully planned operation, if he had died then he would have been replaced. May as well ask why didn't these masters of evil attack sooner. It was only after Fury had pushed these countries so far that they felt the need to retaliate. Furthermore, if Widow didn't save Hawkeye it would have appeared suspicious. She clearly saved him with ease and Fury et al know what she is capable of.

 

[Ultimate Quicksilver]

This issue got tears im my eyes... Quicksilver is SO the man!

The giant men, thank god they are dead, i hated them...

I didn't like Fury losing an arm, specially if he's gonna go all r0b0b0s

What the hell happened to Wanda? I know something didn't go write, but what happened?

I'm going to the US and point a gun to Hitch's head, because i need to see the Anti-Ultimates against their counter-parts. I need it bad. Like ourchair neds porn.

 

[MoS]

and point a gun to Hitch's head, because i need to see the Anti-Ultimates against their counter-parts. I need it bad. Like ourchair neds porn.

That'd be a waste of time, because Hitch is English...

 

[Ultimate Quicksilver]

That'd be a waste of time, because Hitch is English...

*taking notes* kay i need to cancel a fly ticket be right back.

 

[Ice]

Got to read it today, and just...wow.

Speechless.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

So, I was thinking, Loki should've just gone up to the Triskelion, no blowing it up and just showed the triple six he just rolled to Fury and told him to move his armies out of there.

The dude's got all of Asia. That's seven armies a turn. Fury's ****ed.

BEST POST EVER!!! :rockon: :rockon: :rockon:

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

Disagree. Hulk doesn't have one (not like it matters cause he's no a product of Gamma Radiation) But more importantly Green Goblin doesn't have one. No one does so how come he does?

Anyone consider that the abomination might -not- be a human?

I mean, do you really think they'd test an altered version of the Hulk Serum on a human first?

Seriously, what if that's a monkey? or an iguana? or a Dog?

Dog would probably be the best choice. it would take orders.


I would also like to say, Bass, you are awesome. You said all the things to say about the issue. (except not, but you got a heck of a lot of them out)

 

[MoS]

Got to read it today, and just...wow.

Speechless.

C'mon, you can do better than that....

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

C'mon, you can do better than that....

So can you.