Ultimates 3 #1-5 discussion [Loeb/Madureira] [spoilers]

[Bass]

Re: Ultimates 3 #1 spoiler/discussion

One thing more: Janet points out to Steve the incest thing in the context of Steve's limited 1940s mindset, somewhat implying that this is a modern thing that he wouldn't get. Loeb has no control over his material.

Great point, Mclintoc - I hadn't really noticed that before because of all the other stupid, but you're correct. WASP should also be like, "Ew".

Last I checked, incest isn't a game that's fun for all the family.

Yeah, you really nail it. To do this in comics with roughly 70 years of outrageous story-telling-- to really give that wow effect--was amazing.

I wouldn't be complaining so much about this new issue if it weren't for for the greatness of the first two volumes. They go down in my book as some of the best comic stories I've ever read (esp. the first 6, wow!). I'm just stunned that Loeb, would have no respect for that achievement.

Thanks!

However, Loeb DOES have respect for it, I'm certain. It's just - he doesn't know how to do what Millar and Hitch did, so he's doing something else. Unfortunately, he's not a good writer and so, no matter how different his approach, it'll be poor regardless.

Another thing was that in order to create that "wow effect" as you put it, Hitch was instrumental. He drew insane detail in all the backgrounds, his story-telling was just as simple as hell - whereas Joe Mad's art work focuses on great-looking characters in odd worlds with incredible, disorientating action. These are to antithetical approaches. Joe Mad doesn't like drawing the real world. Look at the backgrounds - it's more like an anime Gothic version of Manhattan (what little we see of it). That's not bad, but it is completely different - the "wow" effect rests in the choreography, not the atmosphere.

Someone at Marvel should've seen what Loeb and Mad were doing and said, "No. You're wrong for this book." and given them another title instead. This isn't THE ULTIMATES in any way, save the name.

I, personally, wouldn't mind so much if the story were good, but it's really poor and confusing. It's nothing like the original and incapable of standing on its own merits. That to me, means someone, at some point, should've said, "No".

 

[Indiana Joe]

Re: Ultimates 3 #1 spoiler/discussion

Great point, Mclintoc - I hadn't really noticed that before because of all the other stupid, but you're correct. WASP should also be like, "Ew".

Last I checked, incest isn't a game that's fun for all the family.



Thanks!

However, Loeb DOES have respect for it, I'm certain. It's just - he doesn't know how to do what Millar and Hitch did, so he's doing something else. Unfortunately, he's not a good writer and so, no matter how different his approach, it'll be poor regardless.

Another thing was that in order to create that "wow effect" as you put it, Hitch was instrumental. He drew insane detail in all the backgrounds, his story-telling was just as simple as hell - whereas Joe Mad's art work focuses on great-looking characters in odd worlds with incredible, disorientating action. These are to antithetical approaches. Joe Mad doesn't like drawing the real world. Look at the backgrounds - it's more like an anime Gothic version of Manhattan (what little we see of it). That's not bad, but it is completely different - the "wow" effect rests in the choreography, not the atmosphere.

Someone at Marvel should've seen what Loeb and Mad were doing and said, "No. You're wrong for this book." and given them another title instead. This isn't THE ULTIMATES in any way, save the name.

I, personally, wouldn't mind so much if the story were good, but it's really poor and confusing. It's nothing like the original and incapable of standing on its own merits. That to me, means someone, at some point, should've said, "No".

Bass, thanks for the warm welcome! Dr. Jones is one of favorite fictional characters, hence the handle.

Regarding the incest...I agree that Janet should be going 'eww' but at the beginning of the issue she claims to have gotten a bootleg copy of the DVD and seems to be one of the avid viewers. We know she has dysfunctional tendancies---look at her failed marriage. Has she developed a variant view of sexual relations during the last two years? Yet another mystery eh? :?

Maybe Loeb has several issues "in the can" and the folks at Marvel read them all together----thus making sense to them but fogetting that the initial launch---issue #1 would not make a lick of sense to us.

I don't know...I'm willing to wait it out it for a couple more issues but it better start to come together soon if they want me to continue to have this title on my pull list.

 

[Ice]

Re: Ultimates 3 #1 spoiler/discussion

If this were the Wasp from the regular Marvel Universe, I wouldn't mind it, but the Wasp of the Ultimates is a research scientist with significant personal issues who happens to have mutant powers. Imagine the Green Berets choosing a research scientist to lead them. It doesn't make any sense.

I'm not saying people can't like it. That's totally different from what I said. It's that I don't see why the level of not liking it is so damn high. It's one thing to hate the decision (which I actually don't myself), and another to rampage over it.

 

[Bass]

Re: Ultimates 3 #1 spoiler/discussion

Bass, thanks for the warm welcome! Dr. Jones is one of favorite fictional characters, hence the handle.

I guessed as much!

Regarding the incest...I agree that Janet should be going 'eww' but at the beginning of the issue she claims to have gotten a bootleg copy of the DVD and seems to be one of the avid viewers. We know she has dysfunctional tendancies---look at her failed marriage. Has she developed a variant view of sexual relations during the last two years? Yet another mystery eh? :?

:?

Maybe Loeb has several issues "in the can" and the folks at Marvel read them all together----thus making sense to them but fogetting that the initial launch---issue #1 would not make a lick of sense to us.

That's fair enough - if they were amateurs. But they're not. This is their premiere Ultimate title written by a (supposed) industry-loved writer who's the architect for a huge Ultimate-line crossover next year.

I don't know...I'm willing to wait it out it for a couple more issues but it better start to come together soon if they want me to continue to have this title on my pull list.

Thing is - it's only 5 issues. Two issues later and you'll be more than halfway. I'm not buying it. It's off my 'pull list'. It was a 'maybe' a, "Take a look and judge", but now it's definitely off. No more Ultimate titles for me it seems. :|

 

[Mclintoc]

Re: Ultimates 3 #1 spoiler/discussion

Joe Mad's art work focuses on great-looking characters in odd worlds with incredible, disorientating action. These are to antithetical approaches. Joe Mad doesn't like drawing the real world.

Yes, I didn't want to say anything about the art because it has the same problem as the storytelling.

Hitch was brilliant. I think of his art on the Ultimates as Peter Jackson's crew thought about the design of LOTR. As Jackson said, they weren't making a fantasy movie, they were telling history. This is just what Hitch did.

I think in particular about his amazing take on Iron-Man's suit and the care he took with the National Cathedral at the funeral for the Hulk's victims, but I could go on and on.

 

[Indiana Joe]

Re: Ultimates 3 #1 spoiler/discussion

It's a five issue series??? Crap, I missed the memo on that one. WTF? In the 'world according to Indy Joe' I was thinking Loeb would need a lot more than four more issues to clear things up. :arrgh:

 

[Mclintoc]

Re: Ultimates 3 #1 spoiler/discussion

I'm not saying people can't like it. That's totally different from what I said. It's that I don't see why the level of not liking it is so damn high. It's one thing to hate the decision (which I actually don't myself), and another to rampage over it.

Well, speaking for myself, I am so upset over this ONLY because of the greatness of the first two volumes.

 

[Lynx]

Re: Ultimates 3 #1 spoiler/discussion

I'm not saying people can't like it. That's totally different from what I said. It's that I don't see why the level of not liking it is so damn high. It's one thing to hate the decision (which I actually don't myself), and another to rampage over it.

I'm not sure there really is rampage over it. I think its just one more thing that made this a very poor issue. All of it gives a very bad first impression.

It's a five issue series??? Crap, I missed the memo on that one. WTF? In the 'world according to Indy Joe' I was thinking Loeb would need a lot more than four more issues to clear things up.

I thought it was six? Although, I wouldn't be surprised if it were five given that Joe Mad's drawing it. . .

 

[Langsta]

Re: Ultimates 3 #1 spoiler/discussion

I just re-read Ultimates 2 #13. As I read the incredible words and gazed upon the impossibly great artwork, tears flooded out of my eye-holes as I remembered what used to be.

:cry:

 

[thee great one]

Re: Ultimates 3 #1 spoiler/discussion

I can't wait for E to read this. What the hell is taking him so long?

 

[Ice]

Re: Ultimates 3 #1 spoiler/discussion

I can't wait for E to read this. What the hell is taking him so long?

He's afraid to open the cover.

 

[vader]

Re: Ultimates 3 #1 spoiler/discussion

Wow!!!!!

I picked up the issue yesterday and i still have not been able to quell the rage building inside of me. So many questions have come about from this travesty of a comic book, and not all of them are about the plot line.

In my opinion one of the UU appeal and trademarks was the brilliant continuity( with some bumps along the way). Thor's speech, Wanda and her 616 costume, the extra characters, the heroes squabbling with each other as if they were on a reality TV show. I really don't understand what happened. Sure, you are new to the series, its yours to mold and expand but, don't flip the storyline completely over not give us an explanation for anything. This looks like it has become a carbon copy of the 616 avengers.

Another thing i have a huge problem with is the that i purchased Ultimates 3 issue one with another comic book. Ultimate Saga was the name of the book. The whole book is about how Tony a.k.a. Iron is the leader of the Ultimates and he hacked into Fury's personal files on the Ultimates. So tell me what the hell happened? How are all these questions going to be explained in a few issues WTF!? I hope whole series will be better than what the first issue leads us to believe.

 

[Hibiki]

Re: Ultimates 3 #1 spoiler/discussion

I'm sure i would have liked it if there were no ultimates 1 and 2 before it. The reason why iu don't like it is because it's become exactly the 616 avengers in just one issue and i love new avengers but ultimates was it's own team that was different from everyone else. It was marvels Authority if you will and now it turned into chuck austens avengers. Couple this with the fact I hated loebs run on wolverine and it just seems Marvels just letting him to what he wants. That and Ultimates was one of Marvels last good titles along with Astonishing x-men and New Avengers as a consistently good title with few shirt wrinkles. I don't know, fun read, but defintely in the shadow of it's former self.

 

[ProjectX2]

Re: Ultimates 3 #1 spoiler/discussion

I am tempted to read this, but I'm trying not to be so negative nowadays... maybe I'll hold that until I've read this.

Also, welcome to all the new guys with great names and good thoughts. Join us in the hate!

 

[Lynx]

Re: Ultimates 3 #1 spoiler/discussion

He's afraid to open the cover.

Open it? I'd be afraid to buy it. I mean, sure, you can use it to wipe your *** after you're done with it, but, honestly, I'd rather just spend the money on a roll of Charmin.

I'm sure i would have liked it if there were no ultimates 1 and 2 before it. The reason why iu don't like it is because it's become exactly the 616 avengers in just one issue and i love new avengers but ultimates was it's own team that was different from everyone else. It was marvels Authority if you will and now it turned into chuck austens avengers. Couple this with the fact I hated loebs run on wolverine and it just seems Marvels just letting him to what he wants. That and Ultimates was one of Marvels last good titles along with Astonishing x-men and New Avengers as a consistently good title with few shirt wrinkles. I don't know, fun read, but defintely in the shadow of it's former self.

You know. . .I actually don't think its that. I think it has to do with being thrown into this with all of these ridiculous changes and no explanation. I mean, I know Loeb is trying to make this a big mystery, but it's backfiring. The identity of some of these characters is now completely different and, without an explanation, they might as well be completely different characters.

The only exception is Thor. There is no reason on this earth that can explain the Olde English speech that'll be worth a damn. The rest? I dunno, we'll see.

 

[Asharak]

Re: Ultimates 3 #1 spoiler/discussion

Before reading this comic I told myself that I should not compare this with Ultimates 1 and 2, because that would be unfair. The problem is that this comic is bad no mater how I look at it.

The characters act like caricatures, and doesn't feel real at all. Pietro and Cap were the worst of the bunch.

I got the feeling that the creators knew this was crap since they had such a big amount of sex in this issue. It felt like they were trying to pull people in by using that.

Hawkeye was good though.

 

[Bass]

Re: Ultimates 3 #1 spoiler/discussion

Before reading this comic I told myself that I should not compare this with Ultimates 1 and 2, because that would be unfair. The problem is that this comic is bad no mater how I look at it.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That's brilliant.

 

[Ice]

Re: Ultimates 3 #1 spoiler/discussion

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

That's brilliant.

And very true.

 

[Grocer Man]

Re: Ultimates 3 #1 spoiler/discussion

You know, I had this idea how the incest reveal could have been handled differently.

Wasp: You know, I can understand the sibling love, but they seem to be taking it to the logical extreme.

Cap: Oh, no, they're just incestuous. It's cool.

Wasp: ...what?

Cap: Honey, I'm kind of dense from the whole "generation gap" thing, but I was aware of their realationship well before I caught them in the broom closet last month.

Wasp: And...you never told anyone because?

Cap: I thought it was considered OK! I mean, gay marriage is more or less allowed, this seemed the logical extension!

 

[Random]

Re: Ultimates 3 #1 spoiler/discussion

You know, I had this idea how the incest reveal could have been handled differently.

Wasp: You know, I can understand the sibling love, but they seem to be taking it to the logical extreme.

Cap: Oh, no, they're just incestuous. It's cool.

Wasp: ...what?

Cap: Honey, I'm kind of dense from the whole "generation gap" thing, but I was aware of their realationship well before I caught them in the broom closet last month.

Wasp: And...you never told anyone because?

Cap: I thought it was considered OK! I mean, gay marriage is more or less allowed, this seemed the logical extension!

You should write for Marvel