Ultimates 2 #8 Discussion (SPOILERS)

its not going to be Lieberman...

That makes the Annual -too- crucial to the storyline, they dont have time in the last four issues to recap his background...
 
As much as I dont wanna think it is Jan, that comment at the beginning DOES hold some ground.... when and WHY was she in Hank's apartment?? How about when he was in his apartment with the traitor?
 
Think about it in Watchmen terms...

*** Watchmen spoilers follow ***







The traitor has neutrialized the God-like figure (Thor in U2; Doc Manhattan in Watchmen); disgraced the warrior/soldier (Cap in U2; Comedian in Watchmen); alienated the insecure guy who relies on his costume and inventions for his strength (Pym in U2; Nite Owl in Watchmen)...

Okay, so they're not one-to-one correspondances, but the resonance is there...

And the bottom line is: who is the Ozymandias/Veidt-like figure with all the money, brains, and resources to pull this off? Who has the well-intentioned but potentially megalomaniacal Master Plan?

If we see a faked attempt on Tony's life during the wedding, resulting in the death of his lady-companion, during the next issue, it will just seal the deal, in my opinion.
 
TheManWithoutFear said:
Well Compoud, those are some good thoughts. But Millar's gonna catch some heat if it's just The Watchmen all over again.
Click to expand...

Yeah, people have been drawing enough lines between them as it is (simply for it being a serious, dark Superhero book)
 
compound said:
Think about it in Watchmen terms...

*** Watchmen spoilers follow ***







The traitor has neutrialized the God-like figure (Thor in U2; Doc Manhattan in Watchmen); disgraced the warrior/soldier (Cap in U2; Comedian in Watchmen); alienated the insecure guy who relies on his costume and inventions for his strength (Pym in U2; Nite Owl in Watchmen)...

Okay, so they're not one-to-one correspondances, but the resonance is there...

And the bottom line is: who is the Ozymandias/Veidt-like figure with all the money, brains, and resources to pull this off? Who has the well-intentioned but potentially megalomaniacal Master Plan?

If we see a faked attempt on Tony's life during the wedding, resulting in the death of his lady-companion, during the next issue, it will just seal the deal, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Holy ****ing crap! Natasha is going to get shot! No! Watchmen, you are a guinus. As much as I ahte to admit it, you are so ****ing right! Every other Ultimates Arc has copied some other story (if not pieces have been fitted together). Exaple 1: The Matrix. Hawkeye in "The Experts" was a Matrix Copy. The Alien invasion fight was a Independance Day knock off. The Hulk incursion was a King Kong likeness. The trail of the Hulk follows the Hulk TV show when Daredevil was his lawyer, and going after Thor is a Christ at the Garden of Gethsemanie re-enactment.
 
Hawkeye101 said:
Holy ****ing crap! Natasha is going to get shot! No! Watchmen, you are a guinus. As much as I ahte to admit it, you are so ****ing right! Every other Ultimates Arc has copied some other story (if not pieces have been fitted together). Exaple 1: The Matrix. Hawkeye in "The Experts" was a Matrix Copy. The Alien invasion fight was a Independance Day knock off. The Hulk incursion was a King Kong likeness. The trail of the Hulk follows the Hulk TV show when Daredevil was his lawyer, and going after Thor is a Christ at the Garden of Gethsemanie re-enactment.
Click to expand...

:? Ummm, ok.
 
Hawkeye101 said:
Holy ****ing crap! Natasha is going to get shot! No! Watchmen, you are a guinus. As much as I ahte to admit it, you are so ****ing right! Every other Ultimates Arc has copied some other story (if not pieces have been fitted together). Exaple 1: The Matrix. Hawkeye in "The Experts" was a Matrix Copy. The Alien invasion fight was a Independance Day knock off. The Hulk incursion was a King Kong likeness. The trail of the Hulk follows the Hulk TV show when Daredevil was his lawyer, and going after Thor is a Christ at the Garden of Gethsemanie re-enactment.
Click to expand...

I mean, don't you remember the part where Iron Man knocked King Kong into the Grand Central Station? And when he was trying to get onto that helicopter?

or when Hawkeye learned how to fly into the Skrulls to make them explode.

or when Thor flew his plane into the eye of the spaceship, to destroy it?

You see, they took influences from those stories, with this Watchmen Idea, he'd be blatantly ripping off the entire story. That's illegal.
 
Dr.Strangefate said:
I mean, don't you remember the part where Iron Man knocked King Kong into the Grand Central Station? And when he was trying to get onto that helicopter?

or when Hawkeye learned how to fly into the Skrulls to make them explode.

or when Thor flew his plane into the eye of the spaceship, to destroy it?

You see, they took influences from those stories, with this Watchmen Idea, he'd be blatantly ripping off the entire story. That's illegal.
Click to expand...

:lol:
 
Dr.Strangefate said:
You see, they took influences from those stories, with this Watchmen Idea, he'd be blatantly ripping off the entire story. That's illegal.
Click to expand...
No, he wouldn't -- they'd just be very similar in structure and themes. The specific plot details are completely different.

Besides, Watchmen is largely defined by its grim ending -- I suspect that U2 will end on a more tragic-but-upbeat Hollywood disaster movie kind of way, in keeping with most of the references that Hawkeye101 pointed out. A huge mess, surely, but one that inspires a glimmer of hope, in the post-9/11/tsunami/Katrina kind of way.
 
compound said:
No, he wouldn't -- they'd just be very similar in structure and themes. The specific plot details are completely different.

Besides, Watchmen is largely defined by its grim ending -- I suspect that U2 will end on a more tragic-but-upbeat Hollywood disaster movie kind of way, in keeping with most of the references that Hawkeye101 pointed out. A huge mess, surely, but one that inspires a glimmer of hope, in the post-9/11/tsunami/Katrina kind of way.
Click to expand...

Don't forget in a post-Ultimate Iron Man kind of way as well, as thats the definitive example of a tragically bad story, whose ending (as in the series ending itself, not the actual ending of the mini) will be a forest fire of hope. :)
 
It's hella Jan.... who else would be close enough to cap to set him up like that. Or of course Loki could be impersonating Jan, which would be even more convoluted.
 
i think millar's strategy is writing a general course of events, releasing a cliff hanger issue, seeing what fans think is going to happen, and if they're right, delay the issue a month or two and use the time to change it to something not as good or sensical.
 
iceman said:
i think millar's strategy is writing a general course of events, releasing a cliff hanger issue, seeing what fans think is going to happen, and if they're right, delay the issue a month or two and use the time to change it to something not as good or sensical.
Click to expand...

I thought that's why it was taking so long too.
 
So Fury now thinks Rogers and Stark were in it together?
 
TheManWithoutFear said:
That's not what I got out of it. Just Captain America and his rant suggests that he's not even the "Real" Captain America.
Click to expand...

That's how I understood it too. And that could be where the Annual comes it, which supposedly has a major clue about the traitor. There were some failed Cap remakes...who knows.

I knew, knew, knew, knew the traitor wouldn't be revealed in this issue. I knew it. There's still 4 issues left in the series. You guys are soooo gullible. :D

It seems obvious to me that it's not Cap OR Tony. Not intentionally, anyway. If it is, they are being framed. I like the idea put forth earlier in the thread about Tony looking like he's getting ready for a team to break away from SHIELD. I don't really want that, but it's a good theory.

Loved the bit about the kid being Fury's godchild. Nice touch.

The art was fab and the "little things" made this book great.

4/5 because I'm not bitter about the no reveal and because he fooled you guys. :D
 
Oh yeah - and I'm loving the Watchmen parallel compound suggested.
 
It's very possible Natahsa might get shot, but she's definetly not going to die. She's in Ultimates III. And the more I think about, the more I like Tony being the Traitor. I dunno, it just seems to fit.
 
I don't trust the list we were given. Like I said, Just because they had a write up doesn't mean they will or will not be there when Vol. 3 starts up.

I'm also willing to bet that even when a scapegoat is revealed that the traitor walks away free as a bird by the arcs end.
 
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