Ultimates 2 #8 Discussion (SPOILERS)

[SeAcoW]

Haha, nice you man without the fear thing.

I still believe it's Jarvis running around with a red mask formed as a skull. He sees how Tony is changed after he joined the Ultimates. He want to split them up. I agree next is Tony and Natasha. Jan is doing a great job killing off herself by ****ing with that wife beater. Let's just hope she dies as the first one.

 

[Lynx]

You guys are giving me the biggest headache with this crap you're producing. Half of you are saying "This is definitely and this is going to happen" You don't know **** so shut up already and take it to BSI.

This traitor thing is so overcooked. Millar really let us down with all the hype and the delivery and what's even worse is the biggest possibility of who the traitor at this point is.... NONE OF THE ULTIMATES. Where do you guys get off blameing Tony? Because he's building a jet? Idiots. That's a nod to the Ultimate Quinjet coming up probably for Vol. 3. It's not because Tony has this big scheme to take over the world. They're doing a MIni on him why would they turn him into a bad guy? He's a rich guy who wants to set himself apart by helping the world.

Hawkeye being alive is fine with me. But there better be a good reason he's being kept alive.

Loki altered the tapes? Cop-Out.

Someone obviously set up Captain America and that's pretty much something we all figured since we saw this cover leaked. Although I really liked the characterization of Steve Rogers in this issue we still get NOTHING!

The issue was good but I'm not giving it any credit we should be further along in the story.
Where's Bass to yell at me for this?

2/5

Maybe you're right, Tony doesn't have a motive. In fact, no one does. The only posibilities left really are Red Skull or Loki and that would seriosuly be a cop out. There is no traitor? I'd be beyond pissed at Millar if he did that.

I wouldn't mind Pym as Yellowjacket being the Traitor, but it's not going to happen. Seriously, the Traitor crap needs to end.

 

[Hawkeye101]

Maybe you're right, Tony doesn't have a motive. In fact, no one does. The only posibilities left really are Red Skull or Loki and that would seriosuly be a cop out. There is no traitor? I'd be beyond pissed at Millar if he did that.

I wouldn't mind Pym as Yellowjacket being the Traitor, but it's not going to happen. Seriously, the Traitor crap needs to end.

It's probably just a poser at this point, a more in depth version of USP: Public Scrutiny.

 

[DIrishB]

Certainly, Jan wakes up in the morning to discover that Steve never went to bed that night. He reviels to her that he knows she's been seeing Hank since SHIELD sees him as a possible 'traitor'. She makes a remark about "I'm not sleeping with him, not yet anyway." And Cap takes off.

There is an Intense investigation at the Barton house, all bodies accounted for except Hawkeye's. They believe that Hawkeye's body was taken by the traitor. Fury is taking it very hard. He reviels that he had a whole slew of hidden cameras hidden in Clint's house, and the footage reviels the traitor to SHIELD.

Tony is in some kind of meeting where a US General is asking Tony why he's building a war plane years a head of what the US military is doing. Before Tony can respond, I believe Happy whispers something in Tony's ear.

Fury orders that the Reserves be the ones to take down the traitor, because there'd be too much emotion if the other Ultimates did it.

Steve talks to Bucky in an emotional talk about how he doesn't know anybody in the 21st Century and can't ahndle it. Buck takes Steve to the Captain America Memorial at the cemetary. It is here that the Reserves jump the captain, the Rocket Men, the seasons and few other Union copies. They trank the cap and Fury comes down VERY pissed. Fury says something like "You two were in this together? It's just so convieniant that Stark divers find Captain America when I'm building a Super-team." Fury socks Captain America.

Scarlet Witch & Quick Silver are looking at Wedding dresses for Black Widow when SW gets a text telliung them of Clint's families death and his aparent one.

Cap makes a comeback and knocks a few Reserves silly. Except Fury is FURYious and orders a Rocket Man to take Captain America down and the Rocket Man tosses a helicopter on Captain America and it ends with Captain America out-cold laying infron of his memorial that says "In Loving Memory of Steve Rodgers CAPTAIN AMERICA, who died saving the country he served.".

Thanks Hawkeye.

You guys are giving me the biggest headache with this crap you're producing. Half of you are saying "This is definitely and this is going to happen" You don't know **** so shut up already and take it to BSI.

This traitor thing is so overcooked. Millar really let us down with all the hype and the delivery and what's even worse is the biggest possibility of who the traitor at this point is.... NONE OF THE ULTIMATES. Where do you guys get off blameing Tony? Because he's building a jet? Idiots. That's a nod to the Ultimate Quinjet coming up probably for Vol. 3. It's not because Tony has this big scheme to take over the world. They're doing a MIni on him why would they turn him into a bad guy? He's a rich guy who wants to set himself apart by helping the world.

Hawkeye being alive is fine with me. But there better be a good reason he's being kept alive.

Loki altered the tapes? Cop-Out.

Someone obviously set up Captain America and that's pretty much something we all figured since we saw this cover leaked. Although I really liked the characterization of Steve Rogers in this issue we still get NOTHING!

The issue was good but I'm not giving it any credit we should be further along in the story.
Where's Bass to yell at me for this?

Whoa whoa, calm it down there Happy. If you don't like the issue fine (what else is new), but where the **** do you get off telling people to shut up and calling people names? Thats seriously one of the least mature and pathetic posts I've ever seen anyone post on this board. I understand you didn't like it, and can respect that, but NOT the personal attacks on people of the site. I'm going to assume its this attitude which prevents you from becoming a mod, because while many of your intentions are good, this is a perfect example of how not to act. Seriously man if you'd said that in front of me I'd have smacked you silly. Seriously, grow up. You don't like it fine, but don't come down on people like that for disagreeing. Its pathetic.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Whoa whoa, calm it down there Happy. If you don't like the issue fine (what else is new), but where the **** do you get off telling people to shut up and calling people names? Thats seriously one of the least mature and pathetic posts I've ever seen anyone post on this board. I understand you didn't like it, and can respect that, but NOT the personal attacks on people of the site. I'm going to assume its this attitude which prevents you from becoming a mod, because while many of your intentions are good, this is a perfect example of how not to act. Seriously man if you'd said that in front of me I'd have smacked you silly. Seriously, grow up. You don't like it fine, but don't come down on people like that for disagreeing. Its pathetic.

Thanks Dad. So I'm bitter. :twisted:

 

[DIrishB]

Thanks Dad. So I'm bitter. :twisted:

There's a difference between being bitter and acting like an *******, and you were definitly doing the latter with that last post. Seriously, why do you think its ok to attack people like that over the site? Do you act that way in real life? And if so how do you not end up in the hospital on a regular basis with your teeth knocked out?

 

[SeAcoW]

I just saw the art for it and I can picture the whole thing. The issue wasn't anything of interest, still I don't blame for people liking it. As I said this issue should show just how strong Cap is and it did. The scene were he just kick 5 guys *** at the same time? Only Mark can do that stuff I tell you. I would really like the fighting scenes to be a bit longer in The Ultimates. Like Thor. One issue for such a big fight? Nah man. And this? A few pages? Cap can hold longer then that I tell you. I love Captain America even more now.

 

[DIrishB]

I just saw the art for it and I can picture the whole thing. The issue wasn't anything of interest, still I don't blame for people liking it. As I said this issue should show just how strong Cap is and it did. The scene were he just kick 5 guys *** at the same time? Only Mark can do that stuff I tell you. I would really like the fighting scenes to be a bit longer in The Ultimates. Like Thor. One issue for such a big fight? Nah man. And this? A few pages? Cap can hold longer then that I tell you. I love Captain America even more now.

I really want to read this issue so I can at least develop a fair opinion of it.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

There's a difference between being bitter and acting like an *******, and you were definitly doing the latter with that last post. Seriously, why do you think its ok to attack people like that over the site? Do you act that way in real life? And if so how do you not end up in the hospital on a regular basis with your teeth knocked out?

You're taking it a bit too seriously. First when I post "idiot" over a messageboard site I don't type away with a red face and steam blowing out my ears. It's the internet. It's comic books. Think more in the line of a Napolean Dynamite attitude.

As for the teeth I just gave up and have dentures now. Right before a fight I take them out and soak them in my beer.

 

[DIrishB]

You're taking it a bit too seriously. First when I post "idiot" over a messageboard site I don't type away with a red face and steam blowing out my ears. It's the internet. It's comic books. Think more in the line of a Napolean Dynamite attitude.

As for the teeth I just gave up and have dentures now. Right before a fight I take them out and soak them in my beer.

Gotcha. Just saying, if you're going to insult people, especially in jest, use a tag or smiley or whatever so its clear. As for the dentures soaking in beer...try doing it in 151 or something. That way it'll absorb the same amount of alcohol but with more potency.

 

[14rdb]

The issue really laid the groundwork for a split between S.H.I.E.L.D. and the Ultimates (Ultimate Avengers) at the conclusion of Millar's run.

Fury no longer has faith in the big three (Captain America, Iron Man, and Thor) and isn't too fond of any of the others either. Tony Stark is busy designing and building technology independently that has the U.S. govt. nervous. For one of the biggest missions imaginable, Fury decides to go with the Reserves instead of the Ultimates, and they (the Reserves) better fit Fury's desire for a superpowered military team anyway.

Even if Steve Rogers is proven innocent (which you have to assume will be the case), too much has taken place for the Ultimates to simply reunite with Fury under S.H.I.E.L.D. command at this point.

 

[Lynx]

The issue really laid the groundwork for a split between S.H.I.E.L.D. and the Ultimates (Ultimate Avengers) at the conclusion of Millar's run.

Fury no longer has faith in the big three (Captain America, Iron Man, and Thor) and isn't too fond of any of the others either. Tony Stark is busy designing and building technology independently that has the U.S. govt. nervous. For one of the biggest missions imaginable, Fury decides to go with the Reserves instead of the Ultimates, and they (the Reserves) better fit Fury's desire for a superpowered military team anyway.

Even if Steve Rogers is proven innocent (which you have to assume will be the case), too much has taken place for the Ultimates to simply reunite with Fury under S.H.I.E.L.D. command at this point.

Completely setting the stage for Loeb/Mad's run. I wonder if they'll actually retitle it "Ultimate Avengers" if this happens?

 

[14rdb]

Completely setting the stage for Loeb/Mad's run. I wonder if they'll actually retitle it "Ultimate Avengers" if this happens?

If the split does happen, I really doubt it for marketing reasons. But in many ways, it would make more sense if they became the Avengers and the Reserves became the Ultimates.

 

[moonmaster]

You're taking it a bit too seriously. First when I post "idiot" over a messageboard site I don't type away with a red face and steam blowing out my ears. It's the internet. It's comic books. Think more in the line of a Napolean Dynamite attitude.

To be fair, your not the kind of person who call people idiots jokingly. :lol:




And you might wanna get that sand outta your vagina, too.

On to the issue.

-Cap was set up.

-Loki's powers might've had something to do with it. It would explain why everyone's so blindly excepting the idea that Cap isn't really Cap, despite the fact that it makes no ****ing sense whatsoever. Where did he get his powers? I thought no one had been able to duplicate the serum? And the whole idea that they froze "Cap" to make it look like he'd been preserved? :roll: He was set up.

-I'm thinking that Tony is the traitor and he set up Cap. (For some reason I found his expression when he heard the news unsettling...like he knew it was coming...)

-And how would they fake the tapes? Maybe there's was a very specific reason why the traitor met with Hank. Maybe his androids can be given life like skins.

-And I for one liked the issue. Not as much as others, but I liked it.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

-Loki's powers might've had something to do with it. It would explain why everyone's so blindly excepting the idea that Cap isn't really Cap, despite the fact that it makes no ****ing sense whatsoever. Where did he get his powers? I thought no one had been able to duplicate the serum? And the whole idea that they froze "Cap" to make it look like he'd been preserved? :roll: He was set up.

I'm having a hard time thinking that Captain America is the traitor, it just doesn't fit with his character... And Steve would have been expecting an ambush if he had done it.

Theories:

Chitauri/Skrull Shapeshifter = Red Skull (blecch. I want RS to be human)

Hologram Body = Ultron

... I dunno. I wanted some more answers, but I still don't think Captain is the bad guy... Unless he's already been captured and replaced, by the Red Skull.

-I'm thinking that Tony is the traitor and he set up Cap. (For some reason I found his expression when he heard the news unsettling...like he knew it was coming...)

I think he did know, but I don't think he's a traitor. I think he sees where everything is going because he's the smartest guy on the team... He's ready for a Privately Financed Superhero team, with no ties to the US government, and I gaurentee he's been working towards this ever since Thor mentioned there being a Traitor. Even if he was skeptical, he wouldn't have let it sit, he would have looked into it.

I'm expecting a Thor Escape during Tony's Wedding, because who else is going to be Best Man?

 

[PChmura]

I hate to say it, but Jan is still a possibility. She spent 4 hours in Hank's apartment and Hank did have the captain america uniform. Plus, she didn't seem surprised at the press conference.

 

[DIrishB]

The issue really laid the groundwork for a split between S.H.I.E.L.D. and the Ultimates (Ultimate Avengers) at the conclusion of Millar's run.

Fury no longer has faith in the big three (Captain America, Iron Man, and Thor) and isn't too fond of any of the others either. Tony Stark is busy designing and building technology independently that has the U.S. govt. nervous. For one of the biggest missions imaginable, Fury decides to go with the Reserves instead of the Ultimates, and they (the Reserves) better fit Fury's desire for a superpowered military team anyway.

Even if Steve Rogers is proven innocent (which you have to assume will be the case), too much has taken place for the Ultimates to simply reunite with Fury under S.H.I.E.L.D. command at this point.

Excellent points.

Completely setting the stage for Loeb/Mad's run. I wonder if they'll actually retitle it "Ultimate Avengers" if this happens?

With the animated movie coming out in February (a few months before this arc wraps up), it seems like a likely possibility to me. Marketing wise, as 14rdb stated, I think people will still get that its the same team. I would actually like to see this.

To be fair, your not the kind of person who call people idiots jokingly.




And you might wanna get that sand outta your vagina, too.

:lol:

On to the issue.

-Cap was set up.

-Loki's powers might've had something to do with it. It would explain why everyone's so blindly excepting the idea that Cap isn't really Cap, despite the fact that it makes no ****ing sense whatsoever. Where did he get his powers? I thought no one had been able to duplicate the serum? And the whole idea that they froze "Cap" to make it look like he'd been preserved? He was set up.

-I'm thinking that Tony is the traitor and he set up Cap. (For some reason I found his expression when he heard the news unsettling...like he knew it was coming...)

-And how would they fake the tapes? Maybe there's was a very specific reason why the traitor met with Hank. Maybe his androids can be given life like skins.

-And I for one liked the issue. Not as much as others, but I liked it.

Also good points. Tony as the traitor is a definite possibility. As far as he knows he's dying sometime soon, so maybe he feels he's got nothing to lose, but much to gain (well, in a weird sense of justifying his actions). Or it could all be Loki's doing, which seems the most likely given his reality-warping powers. Perhaps Thor is really a god, but Loki, using his powers, made it so that his powers are totally dependant on the suit he supposedly stole. Hopefully by the end of the arc Thor will shove Mjolnir up Loki's *** so far the handle is sticking out his mouth.

As for the issue, it was a good issue, just disappointing. But this is only because we all expected the definitive answer on who the traitor was, something we didn't get. Now the solicit didn't necessarily lie, as right now as far as we know Cap is the traitor (even though he isn't). Its just more of Millar playing games with the readers, like he did with the hype for Crossover. This guy is a master of turning hype on its head, something I have to respect. The issue itself was a great read, gave a lot of insight into Cap's misplacement in our time, in Fury's anger over Hawkeye's (apparent) death and that of his family. Also showed just how close Hawkeye and Fury were (him being his daugher's god-daughter and getting her name tattooed on his arm). I can't say this issue wasn't good, because it really was. Somewhat melodramatic, sure, but it was justified. God, two months till #9 is going to be another looooooong wait.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

I'm having a hard time thinking that Captain America is the traitor, it just doesn't fit with his character... And Steve would have been expecting an ambush if he had done it.

Theories:

Chitauri/Skrull Shapeshifter = Red Skull (blecch. I want RS to be human)

Hologram Body = Ultron

... I dunno. I wanted some more answers, but I still don't think Captain is the bad guy... Unless he's already been captured and replaced, by the Red Skull.



I think he did know, but I don't think he's a traitor. I think he sees where everything is going because he's the smartest guy on the team... He's ready for a Privately Financed Superhero team, with no ties to the US government, and I gaurentee he's been working towards this ever since Thor mentioned there being a Traitor. Even if he was skeptical, he wouldn't have let it sit, he would have looked into it.

I'm expecting a Thor Escape during Tony's Wedding, because who else is going to be Best Man?

If I was gay, I'd ask you to marry me right now Doc! You're ****ing brilliant and so reasonable! Hologram Body = Ultron? BRILLIANT!!

The Tony being ready to fund his own team! Brilliant!

5/5


Oh yeah, Let's talk about everyone referring to the future and Loeb's roster. Everyone wants to explain things so I want someone to tackle this since it's being avoided. Hank Pym and Captain America on the same team again? Hank's still working with the traitor. Granted I think he's working with him blindly and doesn't know everything that's going on but there's no way the two are gonna be bedfellows right away. So how's that for a wrench in your cogs and wheels?

 

[marvelman]

OK, here's how I see it:

Tony Stark:

Anyone notice how his eyes in issues 7 & 8 have changed from blue to brown? I sure have.
Anyways, I think Tony has SOMETHING to do with this, whether it is really tony, or even if the team has been replaced by doppelgangers.

Cap:

I seriously think he was set up. He didn't know anything. And I hope to god he isn't dead (he shouldn't be).

Loki:

Here's where everything comes together: Let's assume Stark wants to take control of the US, or even just Loki wants to cause some havok. Now, I think we all believe that Loki can shapeshift (little boy, issue 7). Now, lets assume these things:
Loki shapeshifted into Cap and killed Hawkeye's family.
Loki altered reality to make it so that everyone thinks that Cap isn't Cap
Loki is posing as Stark (hence the eye color change)
Loki can ressurect Lieberman (comon, there's gotta be a reason for this character. And the German name? This screams RED SKULL to me)

I think this is just Loki behind it all, maybe (but probably not) working with Stark. Who is the traitor then? Whoever Loki wants to be. It's all a game to him.



And Millar was right. We didn't guess this, that Cap isn't Cap. But I think Loki is behind it and Fury is being played with. This will give cause for the Ultimates to Avenge all the wrong Loki is doing.

 

[Pandrio]

Loki can ressurect Lieberman (comon, there's gotta be a reason for this character. And the German name? This screams RED SKULL to me).

Just don't tell MWOF. :lol: