Re: Ultimate Handbook 2005 USM and UFF
Stuart said:
(1) If we've made mistakes, then please bring them to our attention. I know you post on the ComixFan forums, where we are contactable.
(2) I've already covered the situation with Professor Storm. It was a mistake, but one caused by a change between the scripted version and the printed version.
(3) "several continuity mistakes" - please specify. If you don't, we can neither defend ourself if they aren't mistakes, nor correct them if they are.
I can remember two, the main FF timeline snafus, so I can't really blame it on the Handbook, just hoped it might offer more insight into it. But in either the Doctor Octopus or Green Goblin bio, you have Ultimate Six occurring AFTER Cats & Kings (USM #47-53). Due to the Ultimate Six prelude issue being USM #46 and the events in the story itself, one must assume Ultimate Six does indeed occur BEFORE Cats & Kings instead of after as your Handbook stated. I'm pretty sure there was at least one more, and I'll post it if I can find it.
(4) "lackluster effort" - I'm sorry you feel that way, but we certainly don't do any of our Handbooks in a lackluster fashion. We care about the Marvel universes, we care about our work, and we try to do the best we can at all times. If we sometimes seem to fall short, then I'm sorry, but it's not from lack of efforts.
You're right, probably the wrong terminology. It all stems from my desire to school even the Ultimate Marvel editors themselves with my vast Ultimate chronology info. By the way, I'm going to refer you to my
Ultimate Marvel Timeline / Chronology, let me know what you think.
(5) The art: as we've said many times on other forums, we'd love them to do new art for the Handbooks, but financial restrictions prevent this. Back in the day when even a poorly selling title sold 100K+, there was the budget for this, now there isn't unless we drastically increase the price.
We ran the running order of events passed Ultimate writers and editors, asking and sometimes debating with them. If you feel we've got something wrong, feel free to contribute with evidence of why it's wrong.
Like I said, the Ultimate Six placement, and other than the FF screw-ups (which we've been told for years would be addressed...eventually) that seems to be it.
As I said in my reply to your earlier post, if you feel there are mistakes in the Handbook, raise them specifically. However, don't start insulting anyone's parents, or referring to people as moronic. Simply put, that's completely out of line.
That was in reply to Ourchair's remark. It was meant in a sarcastic and snarky fashion, not to hurt anyone's feelings. You'll find a large part of this site's content is insulting each other's parentage/lineage. We're just simple like that.
Nurhachi said:
Wow its great to have you here Stuart. The main continuity DiB was talking about was
1) the general ross bio. Millar said that UFF came before the other Ultimate Titles, so General Ross witnessed the accident BEFORE he got blown up in UXM #11
2) you put Cats and Kings before Ultimate Six, where it should have been the other way around. (Electro was talking about the Kingpin being out of the country.
Those were the two main ones I was also remembering, thanks Nur.
3) Something about the placement of UMTU issues in the Spider-man bio. He was supposed to have lost his costume in the space of time those UMTU issues were placed in. I dont really know this one cuz i never got into the UMTU
Thats right, it wasn't the UMTU issue, but the USM #1/2 issue. In your handbook it was placed immediately after the Venom arc...even though Peter lost his costume in the Venom arc and didn't gain a new one until near the end of the following arc (Geldoff). So how does he show up in the USM #1/2 issue, completely in costume (since he's supposed to not have it)? And since the #1/2 issue came out awhile before, I assume it should be placed earlier on, probably between the Learning Curve and Double Trouble arcs.
One thing is certain Stu, I know my Ultimate continuity.
Stuart said:
Later issues have made it clear that isn't the case. Ross is still alive, and unless you want to fit a huge gap in between UFF story arcs, the FF's accident was much more recent than that early UXM Weapon X story.
Huh? Millar himself stated he intendedthe Ultimate FF to have gotten their powers before any of the other Ultimate heroes, that they existed before anyone else. I assumed the large time jumps in between and even during the early UFF arcs were to help their timeline "catch up" to the current timeline of the other titles. Hence the 2 month jump in between The Fantastic and Doom, another four month jump in between Doom and N-Zone, and the unspecified (but obviously large) jump during N-Zone during the construction of the shuttle.
The Hardback reprints and editorial team place it the other way round. Electro has been locked up for months and doesn't realise the Kingpin has beaten the rap and returned to the States.
The only reason the TPBs are ordered that way (out of continuity order) was due to Ultimate Six's last few issues shipping late, hence pushing back the publication of the TPB, but since the regular USM issues all shipped on time, the Cats & Kings arc was green-lighted to be collected first.
Either way, I am going to take the author's original intention over trade paperback publishing order on the story placement.
He lost his costume much later, around the time he visited the X-Men Mansion, so you've lost me on that one.
Like I said, he means the USM #1/2 issue, which in the handbook you've placed between Venom and Geldoff, which due to his lacking a costume at that time makes putting the #1/2 issue there impossible.
In fairly recent USM Johnny Storm tells Spider-Man "this is all kind of new" - that doesn't support the idea that he got his powers several months ago (a couple of months, yes, but not too much longer than that). The only reason to place the first few issues of UFF much earlier was Ross' apparent death in UXM - but since we know he is still alive, and have even had comments about it in UFF (being blown up and coming back to life), there's no need to try and expand the timeline so drastically to try and explain him being alive back in the early issues.
Well, yes there is, much more. The UMTU issues for one. And the couple mentions of the FF in other Ultimate titles before they got their own title. These all seem to imply the FF were around before even Spidey.
TheManWithoutFear said:
*UltimateCentral stands in silence awaiting DIRISHB's response. *
So do you have to do some tweakin' with your timeline DirishB?
Not as it stands now...Stuart might want to tweak a few things for the second volume of the Ultimate Handbook though.
Stuart said:
Prior to the UFF entry being written, I asked editorial if the appearance of the FF in UMTU could be reconciled by the early issues of UFF happening some time earlier, with the issues later leaping to the present after a couple of story arcs (and with readers squinting a bit to ignore the artistic discrepancies, etc). After my editors went and consulted the UFF editors, they came back to me and told me that was not the case; the origin arcs for the UFF were not set back in what might be considered the early days of the Ultimate universe.
So instead of using that acceptable and easy explanation, instead they'd rather have large continuity discrepancies? Man those editors never cease to amaze me.
Nurhachi said:
Yikes DiB i dont think you gonna be able to argue with that!
Sure I can. Thats what people have been doing for awhile now, ignoring the early UMTU appearances of the UFF, etc. I've been arguing against this and trying to devise a way for it to all make sense. I think the timeline has done a good job of that so far, without having to ignore entire sections of storylines to avoid continuity discrepancies. And the guy who co-wrote the first UFF arc, Mark Millar himself, confirmed the UFF got their powers before anyone else, thats good enough for me. I'll take Mark's word over the editorial dept., as the editors haven't exactly done their job in the past in regards to continuity.
ourchair said:
Since Bendis, Millar and Ultimate Editorial has already promised that things will be fixed EVENTUALLY (god knows when), I assume that we shouldn't erase the UFF references nor should we consider them canon either. That will be decided later when the time comes.
Good idea. But unless its specifically stated otherwise (UMTU #9) all Ultimate titles are considered as canon as far as the timeline goes.
