Ultimate Handbook 2005 USM & UFF [editor notes begin on pg. 7]

cmdrjanjalani said:
The Handbook was kinda meh for me... They lacked a lot of characters that would have been easily in the handbook.

- Franklin Storm, plays a major supporting cast role for the UFF so it baffles me why he was totally left out.
- Willie Lumpkin, he may be a minor character, but he is poignant to Reed's recruitment in the think tank and he returns in the Think Tank arc.
- Rhona Burchill / Mad Thinker, a UFF rogue. Her abilities, detailed backstory and her android henchmen and she had a decent role, why ignore her?
- Boomerang and Killer Shrike, sure they were just one-shot villains, but so was Gladiator and he was included.
- Ben Poindexter / Bullseye, a major villain in the Ultimate Elektra mini-series.
- The Principal and Miss Willow, if they included Hawk-Owl and Woody, why not their arch-enemies as well?
- Agent Woo and Carter, recurring SHIELD agents, especially Carter.
- Should've included Mr. Big with the Enforcers, even though he died pretty quickly. Paul Dini is also a recurring Kingpin associate.
- Hammerhead, a MAJOR antagonist in the Warriors arc. He also appeared previously in UXM, and that would have added some words to his backstory not to mention it is established that he is a mutant.

Others:
- Confused with Ultimate Rhino. I thought it was established in the USM game that it was only a robot?

What I liked:
- Finally explained General Ross' survival more to make it sound plausible.
- Some degree of explanation of Man-Thing's cameo in UFF, although I did not understand it much.
- The UFF's first appearance is confirmed as UFF#1, so what does that mean regarding the USM Super Special? Bendis must still be kicking himself for cramming the UFF in it.
- Really detailed backstories of all the characters featured, starting from the first up to the most recent appearance.
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The first R.H.I.N.O. was a robot controlled by Alex O'Hirn, while the one appearing in the game/annual is him in a suit.
 
cmdrjanjalani said:
- The Principal and Miss Willow, if they included Hawk-Owl and Woody, why not their arch-enemies as well?
- Agent Woo and Carter, recurring SHIELD agents, especially Carter.
- The UFF's first appearance is confirmed as UFF#1, so what does that mean regarding the USM Super Special? Bendis must still be kicking himself for cramming the UFF in it.
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I'm sure that the Principal and Miss Willow were lefted out due to space. After all, I'm sure the only reason Hawk-Owl and Woody got included was because the trade was released fairly recently. Also, am I wrong or hasn't Hawk-Owl been mentioned or referred too in USM or UXM fairly recently?

The fact that UFF are said to have appeared first in UFF#1 is no big surprise. The group being referenced are the teen FF after all. Previously, the adult group was seen, so saying that UFF#1 is the first appearance is true.

As for Bendis kicking himself, I'm sure there are any number of people on this board willing to do it for him.
 
icemastertron said:
That, and the NO-PRIZE.


Damn, what a night!


:rockon:
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*watches as JT kicks Ice in the nuts and takes his NO-PRIZE*

JT: "I'M GONNA HAVE YA *** BEAT/BY THE END OF THIS SONG!"

*watches JT moonwalk out*
 
cmdrjanjalani said:
The Handbook was kinda meh for me... They lacked a lot of characters that would have been easily in the handbook.

- Franklin Storm, plays a major supporting cast role for the UFF so it baffles me why he was totally left out.
- Willie Lumpkin, he may be a minor character, but he is poignant to Reed's recruitment in the think tank and he returns in the Think Tank arc.
- Rhona Burchill / Mad Thinker, a UFF rogue. Her abilities, detailed backstory and her android henchmen and she had a decent role, why ignore her?
- Boomerang and Killer Shrike, sure they were just one-shot villains, but so was Gladiator and he was included.
- Ben Poindexter / Bullseye, a major villain in the Ultimate Elektra mini-series.
- The Principal and Miss Willow, if they included Hawk-Owl and Woody, why not their arch-enemies as well?
- Agent Woo and Carter, recurring SHIELD agents, especially Carter.
- Should've included Mr. Big with the Enforcers, even though he died pretty quickly. Paul Dini is also a recurring Kingpin associate.
- Hammerhead, a MAJOR antagonist in the Warriors arc. He also appeared previously in UXM, and that would have added some words to his backstory not to mention it is established that he is a mutant.

Others:
- Confused with Ultimate Rhino. I thought it was established in the USM game that it was only a robot?
Click to expand...

The first one (from USM #28) is apparently just a robot. I guess this was some retconning done to explain his not being in jail for the Annual and video game.

What I liked:
- Finally explained General Ross' survival more to make it sound plausible.
- Some degree of explanation of Man-Thing's cameo in UFF, although I did not understand it much.
- The UFF's first appearance is confirmed as UFF#1, so what does that mean regarding the USM Super Special? Bendis must still be kicking himself for cramming the UFF in it.
- Really detailed backstories of all the characters featured, starting from the first up to the most recent appearance.
Click to expand...

I agree on all points, but what ultimately made me dislike the Handbook, were all the mistakes. Between using the wrong first name for Professor Storm to the several continuity mistakes, I have to say this Handbooks was a lackluster effort overall. It didn't even use any new artwork, just stuff cut straight out of the comics themselves. I could have put together a better and better-done Handbook, honestly. Maybe I should contact Marvel about working on the UXM/Ultimates Handbook. ;)

Anyway, I wouldn't rely on the Annual to give you any reliable chronology placements, character bios it does a good job with, but the mentions of what order the stories take place is wrong on several counts (at least using the comics themselves as evidence).
 
I know people would like new artwork for the handbooks, but no one should ever expect any. Yeah, I'd love to see some, too, but they always have and will use artwork from the comics.
 
icemastertron said:
I know people would like new artwork for the handbooks, but no one should ever expect any. Yeah, I'd love to see some, too, but they always have and will use artwork from the comics.
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I can understand this as a cost cutting measure, but like I said I didn't mind that. It was all the mistakes which bothered me. I'm still blown away that a professional company like Marvel who's been in business for almost 45 years allows screw-ups like this to happen on such a regular basis. I realize we all make mistakes from time to time, but with printed material there is a thing called proofreading, which is what the editors are paid to do. This makes me wonder if Marvel shouldn't just fire Nick Lowe and company since apparently not only are they not doing their job, in some ways they seem to make it worse. I know, I know, I'm *****ing, and trust me if I had an email address or phone number I would be going straight to the source...but alas, no such luck. I just can't stand when people do half-assed jobs on anything, so I guess thats why it irks me so much. Besides the fact that I love the Ultimate line and every screw-up is like someone twisting a corkscrew just a little deeper into my back. Maybe thats exaggerating a bit, but it still pains me to see people not taking these titles as seriously as they should. Considering almost every Ultimate title is constantly a top-seller for Marvel, you would think their quality control would be a bit tighter.
 
DIrishB said:
I'm still blown away that a professional company like Marvel who's been in business for almost 45 years allows screw-ups like this to happen on such a regular basis. [...] Considering almost every Ultimate title is constantly a top-seller for Marvel, you would think their quality control would be a bit tighter.
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As you point out, its people not the company as an entity who are responsible for such gaffs. Marvel may have been a corporate entity for many decades now, but that doesn't necessarily mean the people who work there are that fully experienced.

Besides, the Ultimate titles are of such top tier quality compared to most other fully commercial comic books that I think we can hardly consider the handbooks a measure of their people's collective professionalism. If you can remember the kind of inconsistency and screw-ups we had in comics just about a decade ago, this is almost excusable.

I realize I'm making a poor excuse, but the perspective I'm trying to describe here is that Marvel's professional quality has been going up and not down.
 
ourchair said:
As you point out, its people not the company as an entity who are responsible for such gaffs. Marvel may have been a corporate entity for many decades now, but that doesn't necessarily mean the people who work there are that fully experienced.

Besides, the Ultimate titles are of such top tier quality compared to most other fully commercial comic books that I think we can hardly consider the handbooks a measure of their people's collective professionalism. If you can remember the kind of inconsistency and screw-ups we had in comics just about a decade ago, this is almost excusable.

I realize I'm making a poor excuse, but the perspective I'm trying to describe here is that Marvel's professional quality has been going up and not down.
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Which I can understand, and I realize its the individuals who work for them or whatever who are responsible, but ultimately Marvel is the company who hires them and keeps them working in the industry. Like I said I could blame Lowe and Macchio all day, but Marvel's keeping them in their editor's seats. I'm glad the overall quality is improving, don't get me wrong, i just expect more.
 
DIrishB said:
I can understand this as a cost cutting measure, but like I said I didn't mind that. It was all the mistakes which bothered me. I'm still blown away that a professional company like Marvel who's been in business for almost 45 years....
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Um....65 years.
 
DIrishB said:
Which I can understand, and I realize its the individuals who work for them or whatever who are responsible, but ultimately Marvel is the company who hires them and keeps them working in the industry.
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And the individuals who hire those individuals are also responsible.
 
Re: Ultimate Handbook 2005 USM and UFF

Hi

Before commenting on what you've said, I should probably introduce myself. I was the head writer on this Handbook (and am the head writer on the next Ultimate one as well). I recently chanced across this forum, and this thread, and given my position am probably uniquely positioned to try and respond to some of the questions raised in this thread.

notTHATtodd said:
While not hsving read this thing to indepth yet, I was noting the inclusion of a few very interesting characters, specifically Man-Thing gets a history nailed down, which is weird since nothing really had been revealed about him / it other then it wandered around the sewers of New York, and there was an appearance in UFF...a point that was actually mentioned in a rather interesting way...
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As I believe someone else notes, Man-Thing's history is given in his first appearance. We didn't make any bits up, just reported on what was known and already chronicled elsewhere.

I also liked the inclusion of Hawk-Owl and Woody, which suggests that they may make an appearance again. I'd actually like that as I am one of the six people who enjoyed that mini-series.
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I really liked the series too, which is why I ensured they got included.

Another inclusion I find to be unfortunate is Punisher. While, yes he appeared in three issues of UMTU, I've long been annoyed by that story. Basically, no attempt to really "Ultimize" the character or, at least, do away with the damned stupid outfit. I kind of like Dolph Lundgren's Punisher for that reason...the suit is just tacky IMO.
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Whether you like the interpretation given in the Ultimate universe or not, that's the version we all have to live with unless and until another writer comes in to modify it.

Edit: Is it really fair to put Occupation: Vigilante? I mean, the guy has to make money somehow and I don't believe I've ever seen the Punisher steal someone's wallet after killing them...
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He doesn't have any other kind of occupation. Occupation isn't just how you make money to live, it's also what you do with your life if you don't have to work for a living.

Edit too: Just a quibble, but saying that Gwen Stacy was SLAIN by Carnage sounds a little weak, don't you think?
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Carnage killed her. There might be different ways of saying that, but they all boil down to the same thing, and space restrictions didn't allow for a lengthier explanation.
 
Re: Ultimate Handbook 2005 USM and UFF

notTHATtodd said:
k'

"Nothing is known of Ted Sallis save that he was a scientist entrusted with guarding an experimental serum; it is not known what the serum's original purpose was....Operatives in the employ of unidentified parties attempted to steal the serum, and Sallis was forced to inject it into himself - whether he did this in a foolhardy effort to keep the serum out of his enemies hands or, on the contrary, was forced to do so by his enemies to test it remains a mystery..."

Basically, take the Man-Thing origin and stick "unidentified" "mystery" and "not known" throughout like pepper.
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One thing we tried to avoid was assuming that if it was true for a 616 character, it was true for the Ultimate character - hence the many "unidentified", etcs which peppered this entry. The writer reported on what was known, and deliberately highlighted (albeit with "unknown" and the like) what might be different from 616 or wasn't confirmed - e.g. not knowing exactly what the formula Sallis took was intended for originally.
 
Re: Ultimate Handbook 2005 USM and UFF

notTHATtodd said:
You are right. I've never noticed that tiny little paragraph in the corner before (I've never even seen the trades for UMTU). They spent more time on the Black Widow and Iron Man origins in UMTU and those two have been - apparently - jettisoned. I guess it is curious to note what was kept from UMTU and what wasn't. As I mentioned earlier, it seems to depend entirely on whether or not there was a reference to it elsewhere (there sort of was a reference to the Man-Thing issue in USM, Doc Connor specifically) or if there has been some other source that says something different. This, of course, means that UMTU is left both in and out of continuity, depending on the characters involved and whether or not a different source has been published.
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With the exception of the Ultimate FF seen in Team-Up (and explicit ties to it or mentions of same, such as the pictures of Dr Doom in the Latverian embassy which we just have to ignore), ALL of the UMTU stuff is considered canon. Much of the discrepancies between the early life of UMTU Iron Man and the Card series version can be put down to P.R. lies put out by Tony, which Peter repeats in his high school presentation.
 
Re: Ultimate Handbook 2005 USM and UFF

DIrishB said:
How was the Black Widow one ignored? And the Iron Man one, I just write that off (the speech Peter gave about Tony's early life) as a false story Tony cooked up to both **** with the press and keep his early life secret.
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Exactly the tack we have taken.
 
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