Ultimate Handbook 2005 USM & UFF [editor notes begin on pg. 7]

[Stuart]

Re: Ultimate Handbook 2005 USM and UFF

The less said on that aspect of Ultimate Daredevil, the better. That way, the character is less set in stone when and if they decide to Ultimatize the character.

Exactly why we didn't say where he got his powers from. It's been left vague so far in the comics, and we weren't about to tie things down and make it harder for future writers (or put them in a position where the Handbook is devalued because they just ignore it and contradict it).

 

[Stuart]

Re: Ultimate Handbook 2005 USM and UFF

I was a little disappointed. I know the continuity-free approach of the UU means we will never get really comprehensive back stories for these characters (or will have to assume they're similar to 616 until otherwise noted), but the handbook would be a great place to unload content that never made it to the printed page regarding the pasts of these people.

Generally speaking, not our place to do so. Ironically, on the odd occasion we do get permission to fill in a missing detail or two, we usually get people complaining that we "made stuff up" (as opposed to reporting events that "actually happened" I guess :roll: )

 

[Stuart]

Re: Ultimate Handbook 2005 USM and UFF

That's a good question Mr. Dr. Strangefate, Sir. It has yielded some very interesting tidbits such as an art guy named Pond Scum and - I don't think anyone else commented on this - a very interesting timeline for the FF, which settles not only Ultimate Secret and (I assume) Extinction as well. It also fits in the annual and all before the current zombie arc.

We asked for clarification on the order of those events. That was the order we were told they happen in (which required a last minute re-ordering of the profile which only just got to the printers in time to be included).

Really it comes down to whether or not you're a collector freak, like looking for mistakes in continuity so you can wanggle you finger at people,

If we've made mistakes, please bring them to our attention - we have a FAQ page where we list any mistakes, we have an e-mail we can be contacted at ([email protected]), and we can generally be contacted on ComixFan, which I know some of the posters here frequent. Please let us either clarify why it might not be a mistake, or agree that it is and note it so that we can correct future volumes or reprints.

and have an extra few bucks to spare.

...Otherwise, no.

I'm sorry to hear that, because (1) if you feel it wasn't worth picking up, we've not done our jobs; and (2) if people don't pick it up, it reduces the chances of future update volumes.

 

[Stuart]

Re: Ultimate Handbook 2005 USM and UFF

So it does deal with the FF Continuity errors?

We did ask about this. We were told to not discuss the apparent discrepances in the Handbook, because the writers have an explanation which they will eventually provide.

 

[Stuart]

Re: Ultimate Handbook 2005 USM and UFF

Did anyone else notice that the Human Torch and Invisible Woman's father is Franklin Storm in the listing and William Storm in the paragraph.

To keep Handbooks as up to date as possible, we tend to see scripts for issues that haven't been published yet, but will have come out by the time the Handbook does. In the script, he was identified as William Storm. By the time the issue came out, he was renamed Franklin. Our editors caught that and amended the entries in the Handbook, but missed it in a couple of places. It is an error, though not the fault of the writer of those profiles (or anyone else really, for that matter).

 

[Stuart]

Re: Ultimate Handbook 2005 USM and UFF

The Handbook was kinda meh for me... They lacked a lot of characters that would have been easily in the handbook.

Space limitations meant we had to leave some characters out this volume (and will have to do so again in the Ultimate/UXM volume).

- Franklin Storm, plays a major supporting cast role for the UFF so it baffles me why he was totally left out.
- Willie Lumpkin, he may be a minor character, but he is poignant to Reed's recruitment in the think tank and he returns in the Think Tank arc.

There's not a lot of information on either of these guys. If these Handbooks sell well enough, the possibility exists for further ones to be commissioned, at which point we'll hopefully know a bit more and can devote some space to them. With the possible exceptions of Rhino and Gladiator (who were judgement calls, and could easily have lost their space to someone else), who else would you have cut to make space for Franklin Storm or Willie Lumpkin?

- Rhona Burchill / Mad Thinker, a UFF rogue. Her abilities, detailed backstory and her android henchmen and she had a decent role, why ignore her?

Because when the book was commissioned and the map of characters worked out, we didn't know she existed; by the time we saw the advance scripts with her in them, we'd already written most of the book. She's one of the top priorities if we get another volume.

- Boomerang and Killer Shrike, sure they were just one-shot villains, but so was Gladiator and he was included.

Gladiator was named, neither Boomerang or Killer Shrike was - we don't know for sure they are actually called that in the Ultimate Universe. Plus, we got a bit more background on Gladiator (not much, but a bit) a few issues later from Jeanne DeWolfe. Another one who was considered, but missed out for space was Luther Manning.

- Ben Poindexter / Bullseye, a major villain in the Ultimate Elektra mini-series.

This book was primarily Spider-Man and FF. Poindexter (not named Bullseye, iirc) doesn't fit either category, so when space ran tight, he got pulled. Like Rhona, he'd be likely to make the cut of a future volume.

- The Principal and Miss Willow, if they included Hawk-Owl and Woody, why not their arch-enemies as well?

Space - I got away with including Hawk-Owl and Woody in this book, in spite of the lack of connections to either Spidey or FF, as the Ultimates/UXM book was already overly full looking, and HO and Woody were the stars of their own series, however briefly. But I couldn't sacrifice more Spidey or FF characters to make space for the Principal.

- Agent Woo and Carter, recurring SHIELD agents, especially Carter.
- Should've included Mr. Big with the Enforcers, even though he died pretty quickly. Paul Dini is also a recurring Kingpin associate.

All were possible, although all only for half pages, as we know so little about them, and thus would have a hard time filling even a half page on them.

- Hammerhead, a MAJOR antagonist in the Warriors arc. He also appeared previously in UXM, and that would have added some words to his backstory not to mention it is established that he is a mutant.

As you said, he'd previously appeared in UXM, which placed him as a possible for the second Handbook, not this one (and a minor for that book, since he appeared to have died); by the time we saw the advanced scripts, it was too late to swap him for someone else. See my comments on Rhona and Poindexter.

Others:
- Confused with Ultimate Rhino. I thought it was established in the USM game that it was only a robot?

The honest answer to this is that we didn't have info from the game to include, nor were we sure of it's canonicity.

What I liked:
- Finally explained General Ross' survival more to make it sound plausible.

Glad you liked it, although a last minute trim makes it less clear than I intended. It's the only option which seemed to make sense.

- Some degree of explanation of Man-Thing's cameo in UFF, although I did not understand it much.

Again, the writer trying to clarify the situation without hampering any future storylines which might be in the pipeline.

- The UFF's first appearance is confirmed as UFF#1, so what does that mean regarding the USM Super Special? Bendis must still be kicking himself for cramming the UFF in it.

This UFF first appeared in UFF#1. As for the ones seen in UMTU...?

- Really detailed backstories of all the characters featured, starting from the first up to the most recent appearance.

Thanks - we tried. I'm glad that, character choices aside, you seem to have liked it.

 

[Fredrik Martinsson]

Re: Ultimate Handbook 2005 USM and UFF

Hi

Before commenting on what you've said, I should probably introduce myself. I was the head writer on this Handbook (and am the head writer on the next Ultimate one as well). I recently chanced across this forum, and this thread, and given my position am probably uniquely positioned to try and respond to some of the questions raised in this thread.

Welcome.

Nice to have someone that is official involved in the works of the Ultimate Universe on the site. Hope it's not a one-time posting run

And thanks for answering some questions. I know that it's appreciated by the people asking them.

 

[Stuart]

Re: Ultimate Handbook 2005 USM and UFF

I agree on all points, but what ultimately made me dislike the Handbook, were all the mistakes. Between using the wrong first name for Professor Storm to the several continuity mistakes, I have to say this Handbooks was a lackluster effort overall. It didn't even use any new artwork, just stuff cut straight out of the comics themselves. I could have put together a better and better-done Handbook, honestly. Maybe I should contact Marvel about working on the UXM/Ultimates Handbook.

(1) If we've made mistakes, then please bring them to our attention. I know you post on the ComixFan forums, where we are contactable.
(2) I've already covered the situation with Professor Storm. It was a mistake, but one caused by a change between the scripted version and the printed version.
(3) "several continuity mistakes" - please specify. If you don't, we can neither defend ourself if they aren't mistakes, nor correct them if they are.
(4) "lackluster effort" - I'm sorry you feel that way, but we certainly don't do any of our Handbooks in a lackluster fashion. We care about the Marvel universes, we care about our work, and we try to do the best we can at all times. If we sometimes seem to fall short, then I'm sorry, but it's not from lack of efforts.
(5) The art: as we've said many times on other forums, we'd love them to do new art for the Handbooks, but financial restrictions prevent this. Back in the day when even a poorly selling title sold 100K+, there was the budget for this, now there isn't unless we drastically increase the price.

Anyway, I wouldn't rely on the Annual to give you any reliable chronology placements, character bios it does a good job with, but the mentions of what order the stories take place is wrong on several counts (at least using the comics themselves as evidence).

We ran the running order of events passed Ultimate writers and editors, asking and sometimes debating with them. If you feel we've got something wrong, feel free to contribute with evidence of why it's wrong.

 

[Stuart]

Re: Ultimate Handbook 2005 USM and UFF

Also true, just as those individuals parents are partially responsible for giving birth to such moronic, half-assed workers...there's plenty of blame to go around.

As I said in my reply to your earlier post, if you feel there are mistakes in the Handbook, raise them specifically. However, don't start insulting anyone's parents, or referring to people as moronic. Simply put, that's completely out of line.

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Re: Ultimate Handbook 2005 USM and UFF

Yeah, Stuart!

Welcome. Glad to have you. It's about time UltimateCentral got some looks. I'm sure you'll just keep looking at the Handbook thread. That's good enough for me. I didn't get it yet but cmon it had Ultimate Daredevil so it had to be good.

Welcome to the site.

 

[Nurhachi]

Re: Ultimate Handbook 2005 USM and UFF

As I said in my reply to your earlier post, if you feel there are mistakes in the Handbook, raise them specifically. However, don't start insulting anyone's parents, or referring to people as moronic. Simply put, that's completely out of line.

Wow its great to have you here Stuart. The main continuity DiB was talking about was

1) the general ross bio. Millar said that UFF came before the other Ultimate Titles, so General Ross witnessed the accident BEFORE he got blown up in UXM #11

2) you put Cats and Kings before Ultimate Six, where it should have been the other way around. (Electro was talking about the Kingpin being out of the country.

3) Something about the placement of UMTU issues in the Spider-man bio. He was supposed to have lost his costume in the space of time those UMTU issues were placed in. I dont really know this one cuz i never got into the UMTU

 

[Stuart]

Re: Ultimate Handbook 2005 USM and UFF

Welcome.

Nice to have someone that is official involved in the works of the Ultimate Universe on the site.

Thanks. It's nice to come to a forum with feedback on our work, even if it isn't all positive. We do put a lot of work into each Handbook, and do like to get feedback on it, good or bad.

Hope it's not a one-time posting run

Hopefully not, although I don't often have time to spend on message boards and forums (which is why I direct people to the one I make a point of checking over at ComixFan). I found this board a few weeks back, but tonights the first time I've had to actually go through the posts and respond.

And thanks for answering some questions. I know that it's appreciated by the people asking them.

No problem. Like I said, we appreciate feedback, and are happy to return it when people have questions. It hopefully helps people understand some of the decisions we make when writing each Handbook.

 

[Stuart]

Re: Ultimate Handbook 2005 USM and UFF

Wow its great to have you here Stuart. The main continuity DiB was talking about was

1) the general ross bio. Millar said that UFF came before the other Ultimate Titles, so General Ross witnessed the accident BEFORE he got blown up in UXM #11

Later issues have made it clear that isn't the case. Ross is still alive, and unless you want to fit a huge gap in between UFF story arcs, the FF's accident was much more recent than that early UXM Weapon X story.

2) you put Cats and Kings before Ultimate Six, where it should have been the other way around. (Electro was talking about the Kingpin being out of the country.

The Hardback reprints and editorial team place it the other way round. Electro has been locked up for months and doesn't realise the Kingpin has beaten the rap and returned to the States.

3) Something about the placement of UMTU issues in the Spider-man bio. He was supposed to have lost his costume in the space of time those UMTU issues were placed in. I dont really know this one cuz i never got into the UMTU

He lost his costume much later, around the time he visited the X-Men Mansion, so you've lost me on that one.

 

[Nurhachi]

Re: Ultimate Handbook 2005 USM and UFF

Later issues have made it clear that isn't the case. Ross is still alive, and unless you want to fit a huge gap in between UFF story arcs, the FF's accident was much more recent than that early UXM Weapon X story.
.

Yeah but the argument was that huge time gap could be when they create the "Awesome".

That you for answering those questions tho i also hope this isnt a one post run.

 

[Stuart]

Re: Ultimate Handbook 2005 USM and UFF

Yeah but the argument was that huge time gap could be when they create the "Awesome".

In fairly recent USM Johnny Storm tells Spider-Man "this is all kind of new" - that doesn't support the idea that he got his powers several months ago (a couple of months, yes, but not too much longer than that). The only reason to place the first few issues of UFF much earlier was Ross' apparent death in UXM - but since we know he is still alive, and have even had comments about it in UFF (being blown up and coming back to life), there's no need to try and expand the timeline so drastically to try and explain him being alive back in the early issues.

 

[Nurhachi]

Re: Ultimate Handbook 2005 USM and UFF

In fairly recent USM Johnny Storm tells Spider-Man "this is all kind of new" - that doesn't support the idea that he got his powers several months ago (a couple of months, yes, but not too much longer than that). The only reason to place the first few issues of UFF much earlier was Ross' apparent death in UXM - but since we know he is still alive, and have even had comments about it in UFF about him being blown up and coming back to life, there's no need to try and expand the timeline so drastically to try and keep him alive.

Thanks for clearing that up 8) its been a huge timeline argument on this site for a long time

 

[TheManWithoutFear]

Re: Ultimate Handbook 2005 USM and UFF

Thanks for clearing that up 8) its been a huge timeline argument on this site for a long time

*UltimateCentral stands in silence awaiting DIRISHB's response. *

So do you have to do some tweakin' with your timeline DirishB?

 

[Stuart]

Re: Ultimate Handbook 2005 USM and UFF

Thanks for clearing that up 8) its been a huge timeline argument on this site for a long time

Prior to the UFF entry being written, I asked editorial if the appearance of the FF in UMTU could be reconciled by the early issues of UFF happening some time earlier, with the issues later leaping to the present after a couple of story arcs (and with readers squinting a bit to ignore the artistic discrepancies, etc). After my editors went and consulted the UFF editors, they came back to me and told me that was not the case; the origin arcs for the UFF were not set back in what might be considered the early days of the Ultimate universe.

 

[cmdrjanjalani]

Re: Ultimate Handbook 2005 USM and UFF

Wow, didn't know that one of the guys working with the Handbook showed up. Well, thanks for the feedback. Currently though, when you said that because a character wasn't referred to his regular universe codename doesn't mean he shouldn't be called that in UU, is a little inconsistent. You did call Eddie Brock, "Venom", and Li'l Ben, "Carnage" (although I understand it would be extremely lame to put "Little Ben" as his profile) even though they are never referred to those names in UU. You put Harry Osborn's alias as "Hobgoblin" and he was never referred to that name. Boomerang and Killer Shrike were wearing cooky costumes so I'm pretty sure they would have official names, they weren't just given yet. Bendis did tell us that the guy who attacked Roxxon is Ultimate Killer Shrike, and I'm sure that having Boomerang named in the USM game would be enough merit for the next book.

I can fully understand the space limitations and I hope that the other characters can be expanded upon the future. I'm also excited about the next Ultimate Handbook and I hope you will explain some of the continuity questions on that book. Namely, Black Widow's mission regarding Latveria and Victor von Doom (since Ult. Doom is named Van Damme, so is this Doom guy a different character?), and Iron Man's history (UMTU vs. UIM). It would also be nice to see Hammerhead there since he did show up in UXM, even just to explain in slightly more detail his abilities are and how he survived getting his head blown open by Gambit.

 

[cmdrjanjalani]

Re: Ultimate Handbook 2005 USM and UFF

Prior to the UFF entry being written, I asked editorial if the appearance of the FF in UMTU could be reconciled by the early issues of UFF happening some time earlier, with the issues later leaping to the present after a couple of story arcs (and with readers squinting a bit to ignore the artistic discrepancies, etc). After my editors went and consulted the UFF editors, they came back to me and told me that was not the case; the origin arcs for the UFF were not set back in what might be considered the early days of the Ultimate universe.

Oh so that means we should erase all Fantastic Four references prior to their appearance in UFF#1? With the exception of the Reed Richards Science Center, but I hope that Bendis or Millar would be able to explain why Reed garnered such an honor to have a building named after him. People usually get buildings named after them when they're dead or really old.