Ultimate Comics Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

[Bass]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

Not much really - Fantastic Four is by far the big comic that I'm least familiar with. After reading UFF (which, aside from the first few arcs, was the weakest ultimate ongoing, imo)

UF4 was definitely the weakest Ultimate title. Millar and Bendis kinda hacked out the concept (at least, compared to the revamps of Spidey, X-Men, and the Avengers) and it just never worked.

Ya, I guess that's true - and hopefully Armor Wars will be a good re-telling too, I still haven't picked it up - but for people who, unlike me, have read all the original 616 stories, I think it would be nice for some more new stories and characters. Then again, if it ain't broke, don't fix it I suppose...we don't want another Ultimatum.

ULTIMATUM didn't introduce new characters. It just killed off others.

That's because Millar uses the "remember that guy? well this guy is even MORE awesome" train of thought alot. Making Gregory Stark essentially the Mycroft to Tony's Sherlock Holmes.

Millar overuses hype to get out of actually doing any writing. I know that sounds harsh, but Millar is capable of very, very good stories with genuinely interesting characters and events. Unfortunately, he has a tendency to hype not just on his boards, but in the story. Characters say how incredible they are but don't actually do it.

For example, in GRAND THEFT AMERICA, we had each Liberator talk endlessly about how super-powerful they are, but when it came to actually doing anything, the Ultimates just went, "Actually, I'm more badass".

The weird thing is, the more a writer hypes their work inside the work, the greater the audience expectation, which results in them being less satisfied, whereas if he'd been somewhat more understated the payoff may have seemed grander.

So here, we have Greg Stark going on about how smart and brilliant he is... but he hasn't done anything smart or brilliant.

And I bet he never will. :?

 

[Plawsky]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

Actually, only the plans for the cosmic cube were stolen from the Baxter Building by Red Skull and AIM, not the cube itself. The cube is still 30,000 years in the past having just been discovered by Thanos.

Its even mentioned in UA #4 that AIM has some of the best scientists in the world trying to make sense of the plans to finish its construction.

Ok that makes more sense, thanks. I still haven't picked up #4 So I didn't get that far yet.

 

[Zeek]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

Nerd Hulk is really ****ing stupid, from the codename down to that ridiculous suit and tie he wears INTO BATTLE.

 

[AnTwan]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

I think a good answer to "Why haven't we seen Gregory Stark mentioned before?" would be because he pulled a fast one on Fury. Fury is always painted as "doing dirty **** to get the end result done but guess what? He's right" What if this time he got tricked... Gregory Stark was never mentioned because he never existed. Kang got the better of the greatest super spy in history. Just a thought.
I can just picture a scene where they go to Tony and are like "Take care of your brother" and he's like "I don't have a brother. What are you talking about?"

 

[Zombipanda]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

I think a good answer to "Why haven't we seen Gregory Stark mentioned before?" would be because he pulled a fast one on Fury. Fury is always painted as "doing dirty **** to get the end result done but guess what? He's right" What if this time he got tricked... Gregory Stark was never mentioned because he never existed. Kang got the better of the greatest super spy in history. Just a thought.
I can just picture a scene where they go to Tony and are like "Take care of your brother" and he's like "I don't have a brother. What are you talking about?"

Please.

Gregory Stark is obviously Loki.

 

[ProjectX2]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

I think a good answer to "Why haven't we seen Gregory Stark mentioned before?" would be because he pulled a fast one on Fury. Fury is always painted as "doing dirty **** to get the end result done but guess what? He's right" What if this time he got tricked... Gregory Stark was never mentioned because he never existed. Kang got the better of the greatest super spy in history. Just a thought.
I can just picture a scene where they go to Tony and are like "Take care of your brother" and he's like "I don't have a brother. What are you talking about?"

Yes. This is what I think.

It's going to be disappointing if he isn't Kang now.

 

[Zombipanda]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

Yes. This is what I think.

It's going to be disappointing if he isn't Kang now.

See, I felt kind of the same way about Ultimates 3.

I thought if Valkyrie was revealed to be Loki, that would partially redeem the horror of the story. Alas, I was a fool, and it was not to be.

But really, how deliciously twisted would that have been?

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

Yes. This is what I think.

It's going to be disappointing if he isn't Kang now.

Me too. That's kind of brilliant... If this is all leading to Kang, I will be very impressed.

 

[-beardoms-]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

I hope it turns out to be Kang.

Greg Stark should be Kang from the future who has fitted himself in to history, hence why he is not in the ultimate iron man series. This could be done in a style reminiscent of Dawn in Buffy, some people might know. I don't know what his end game would be. Maybe something to do the cosmic cube. I don't know. But i already got the sense that there is something going on with Greg Stark.I like to think that if this happened, Kang appeared after Ultimatum and altered people's minds, fitting him in to history.

 

[Zombipanda]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

I hope it turns out to be Kang.

Greg Stark should be Kang from the future who has fitted himself in to history, hence why he is not in the ultimate iron man series. This could be done in a style reminiscent of Dawn in Buffy, some people might know. I don't know what his end game would be. Maybe something to do the cosmic cube. I don't know. But i already got the sense that there is something going on with Greg Stark.I like to think that if this happened, Kang appeared after Ultimatum and altered people's minds, fitting him in to history.

I think if he's Kang the Conqueror he should still be Tony from the future and not some kind of shapeshifter (although, I suppose, like, the last survivor of the Chitauri could potentially be interesting). So, his ruthlessness and focused drive is a contrast to the sloppy drunk Stark. "Greg" has seen horrors that have changed him and force him to change his lifestyle and conquer the past by any means possible, to alter history for (his perception of) the sake of the future.

Wouldn't that be a cool villain, though? A man who knows the inner workings of SHIELD, knows all the personnel intimately and knows what they're going to be doing, and is given nearly free rein to monkey with their organization..... and feels nothing but disdain for them. I think we should make a distinction between the original Ultimates and Fury's New Avengers, the latter of which are the more likely target for Kang/Gregory/Tony.

 

[-beardoms-]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

I also like the idea of Gregory being Tony of the future. But wouldn't Tony know that he someone running around calling him his brother. I mean if Fury knows who he is then Tony would know.

 

[Zombipanda]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

I also like the idea of Gregory being Tony of the future. But wouldn't Tony know that he someone running around calling him his brother. I mean if Fury knows who he is then Tony would know.

Isn't Tony off the team, getting **** faced and moping about Ultimatum?

 

[-beardoms-]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

Well he's still part of the ultimates, just not the Avengers, which i suppose are two different teams.

Quick question.

The avengers of the ultimate universe is the ultimates.

So the black-ops of SHIELD are called the Avengers right?

 

[Bass]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

Kang was always descended from either Doom or Iron Man. No one knew which.

Also, if Greg Stark is Kang, it will annoy me since, y'know... Millar already did that with Gunnar "Loki" Golmen, and I'd say, he did it much, much better. Damn, just thinking about that scene with Volstagg and the "true origin of Thor" just makes me giddy with excitement. All that wonder of whether or not he was a real god... dang. It was so awesome.

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

Nerd Hulk is really ****ing stupid, from the codename down to that ridiculous suit and tie he wears INTO BATTLE.

Agreed.

I think a good answer to "Why haven't we seen Gregory Stark mentioned before?" would be because he pulled a fast one on Fury. Fury is always painted as "doing dirty **** to get the end result done but guess what? He's right" What if this time he got tricked... Gregory Stark was never mentioned because he never existed. Kang got the better of the greatest super spy in history. Just a thought.
I can just picture a scene where they go to Tony and are like "Take care of your brother" and he's like "I don't have a brother. What are you talking about?"

Me likey.

Yes. This is what I think.

It's going to be disappointing if he isn't Kang now.

True. We're over-hyping the hype based on an unfounded theory (but a ridiculously cool one)!

I think if he's Kang the Conqueror he should still be Tony from the future and not some kind of shapeshifter (although, I suppose, like, the last survivor of the Chitauri could potentially be interesting). So, his ruthlessness and focused drive is a contrast to the sloppy drunk Stark. "Greg" has seen horrors that have changed him and force him to change his lifestyle and conquer the past by any means possible, to alter history for (his perception of) the sake of the future.

Wouldn't that be a cool villain, though? A man who knows the inner workings of SHIELD, knows all the personnel intimately and knows what they're going to be doing, and is given nearly free rein to monkey with their organization..... and feels nothing but disdain for them. I think we should make a distinction between the original Ultimates and Fury's New Avengers, the latter of which are the more likely target for Kang/Gregory/Tony.

Amazing.

Kang was always descended from either Doom or Iron Man. No one knew which.

Also, if Greg Stark is Kang, it will annoy me since, y'know... Millar already did that with Gunnar "Loki" Golmen, and I'd say, he did it much, much better. Damn, just thinking about that scene with Volstagg and the "true origin of Thor" just makes me giddy with excitement. All that wonder of whether or not he was a real god... dang. It was so awesome.

Have to disagree. We don't even know Greg is Kang, but just the idea of it to me is far more exciting than Loki's reveal was. Of course, this is entirely based on assumption, but I'm enjoying the little hints Millar drops through Greg's dialogue.

 

[Captain Canuck]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

I think a good answer to "Why haven't we seen Gregory Stark mentioned before?" would be because he pulled a fast one on Fury. Fury is always painted as "doing dirty **** to get the end result done but guess what? He's right" What if this time he got tricked... Gregory Stark was never mentioned because he never existed. Kang got the better of the greatest super spy in history. Just a thought.
I can just picture a scene where they go to Tony and are like "Take care of your brother" and he's like "I don't have a brother. What are you talking about?"

YES!

I think if he's Kang the Conqueror he should still be Tony from the future and not some kind of shapeshifter (although, I suppose, like, the last survivor of the Chitauri could potentially be interesting). So, his ruthlessness and focused drive is a contrast to the sloppy drunk Stark. "Greg" has seen horrors that have changed him and force him to change his lifestyle and conquer the past by any means possible, to alter history for (his perception of) the sake of the future.

Wouldn't that be a cool villain, though? A man who knows the inner workings of SHIELD, knows all the personnel intimately and knows what they're going to be doing, and is given nearly free rein to monkey with their organization..... and feels nothing but disdain for them. I think we should make a distinction between the original Ultimates and Fury's New Avengers, the latter of which are the more likely target for Kang/Gregory/Tony.

eh, i feel like stories like that were cool at one point, but they've been done too much.

Kang was always descended from either Doom or Iron Man. No one knew which.

I thought he was a descendant of Doom and Reed Richards


[insert gay joke here]

you know what i mean.

 

[Bass]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

If any two men could crack the biology necessary to have two men spawn and offspring, it would be they.

Maybe that was the college experiment that went wrong and started their rivalry?

After all, everyone knows that in college, you "experiment".

 

[Ultimate Houde]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

In my case, WAY too much.

 

[Ironlurker]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

I'm going to feel really stupid of Gregory stark is NOT either Kang or in league with Kang. Millar promised Ultimate Kang and said in some interview the Gregory Stark is not what he seems.

Plus the tech 20 years into the future and inexplicably smarter than uber-genius Tony?

If not, where the heck did he come from? Daddy stark liked the ladies like his son did. Stark sperm flowed obviously......but a random unheard of older stark son just sounds sloppy!!

What other conclusion is there? G.Stark IS Ultimate Kang and he in turn could be a future version of T Stark or a Stark decedent. OR a Stane decendent looking for a past ***** slap revenge thing.

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

Stark sperm flowed obviously......but a random unheard of older stark son just sounds sloppy!!

*snicker*