Ultimate Comics Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

[mike3717]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

Anyway, my point (if I still have one) is that I think there's a hope for post-ultimatum UU, as long as Loeb doesn't re-ruin it with New Ultimates and Ultimate X.

I wouldn't count on that. Ultimate Rulk baby!!!!

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

There will always be new universes....

Cosmically GAY!





And on the note of re-imagining older Marvel stories, I still enjoy it when its done right. And that can still be done--the possibility of Greg Stark really being Ultimate Kang is a perfect example. Granted, the Ultimate universe should pave its own road and tell mostly original stories and introduce new characters (which I think it will mostly stick to post-Ultimatum), but occasionally re-imagining an older 616 tale or character in a worthwhile way will always be a welcome addition in my opinion, as long as it doesn't depend on that too often.

 

[mike3717]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

Just finished #4.

The Ultimates are dead to me.

 

[Ironlurker]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

Haven't had the chance to read Ultimate Avengers #4 yet but this review addresses your view.

http://comics.ign.com/articles/104/1049992p1.html

 

[mike3717]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

Haven't had the chance to read Ultimate Avengers #4 yet but this review addresses your view.

http://comics.ign.com/articles/104/1049992p1.html

"I can imagine Ultimate Avengers #4 ticking off some fans with its lack of any real depth or character work"

That about sums it up.

 

[ProjectX2]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

I'm really enjoying it now. It's entertaining and fun and I guess mindless action, but it's not retarded like Loeb's mindless action.

I think it's going to be a lot better in the upcoming arcs.

 

[vmenge]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

I'm really enjoying it now. It's entertaining and fun and I guess mindless action, but it's not retarded like Loeb's mindless action

The truth has been spoken.

 

[Captain Canuck]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

I'm kind of liking it. I feel like we're FINALLY going to get some plot.

4 issues of set up is pretty ridiculously over the top, but lets see where it goes.

 

[ProjectX2]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

Was I the only one thinking this:

"All I wanna do is BANG BANG BANG BANG"

 

[Ironlurker]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

The action gave the impression of advancement when the real advancement was in the last few pages of the issue. We now know what the objective of the Skull was and we have the new team focused on taking skull out rather than retrieving Cap. They are a scalpel when he was a broadsword. I'm sure that's how they like to think about it.

I thought this was a satisfying issue. I freely give the talented Scott my money.

 

[Bass]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

SO SAYS ZOMBANDOR THE ETERNAL!! UNIVERSES WILL DIE AND BE REBORN BUT THE SPIRIT OF CREATION WILL REMAIN FOREVER INDOMITABLE!

m

Cute! ^_____^

Ya, I think that's one of the main reasons that Ultimate U went pretty stale over the last several arcs before Ultimatum (The other - probably bigger imo - reason was Loeb). I think re-telling stories can only be cool for so long, which is why I think they're probably going to start trying to tell new stories after the reboot - hence the introduction of Greg Stark, even though it's kind of a lame choice (where the hell has he been...why wasn't he in UIM? I'm kind of hoping, like others, that he's not really "Greg Stark", but we'll see).

Welcome, Plawsky!

Like you, I like the idea of Greg Stark, but am annoyed that such a character hasn't been mentioned until now. I honestly don't see why Greg Stark has to be Tony's brother, why he can't be someone else.

Personally, I liked those 3 characters you mentioned - I just don't think they were given enough time to develop. Geldoff could have been way better, but I liked the concept; I thought Syndicate was kind of cool, I liked the bank robbery issue, though several of his appearances later on were kind of random; Magician was a cool idea at first, but they made him almost "too" powerful and the ending to that arc was kind of lame. Kong is probably one of my favorite USM characters, but I hate the way the new artist made him look with that mohawk.

I like Kong a lot, but the other three... I can't understand what's even remotely appealing about them. :?

I guess I've had the privilege of not knowing what is a re-telling or new character, since I only recently started reading comics and I've mostly just read Ultimate stuff, but I like almost all of it. Anyway, my point (if I still have one) is that I think there's a hope for post-ultimatum UU, as long as Loeb doesn't re-ruin it with New Ultimates and Ultimate X.

That's interesting. So you don't know about the Cosmic Cube or AIM?

Thing is, there's nothing wrong with a re-telling. The first volume of THE ULTIMATES uses the Skrulls and the Avengers. Kleiser's "new" I suppose, and it kicks ass.

The action gave the impression of advancement when the real advancement was in the last few pages of the issue. We now know what the objective of the Skull was and we have the new team focused on taking skull out rather than retrieving Cap. They are a scalpel when he was a broadsword. I'm sure that's how they like to think about it.

I thought this was a satisfying issue. I freely give the talented Scott my money.

That's cool, but your scalpel thing is problematic - how can giant tank-men shooting up Paris be a scalpel when a man with a shield be a broadsword?

Anyhoo, this issue, was pretty cool even though the Avengers team is thoroughly unlikeable (seriously, does anyone like any of them? Nerd Hulk is kinda amusing, I suppose). What surprised me is all the idea that this is mindless action - did no one notice how much thought Millar put into Cap? It's quite evident Mark Millar adores Captain America. This whole issue showcased his character, from his television habits to his ability to deal with vastly superior forces armed against him. I think Millar did well here.

 

[Random]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

Ya, I think that's one of the main reasons that Ultimate U went pretty stale over the last several arcs before Ultimatum (The other - probably bigger imo - reason was Loeb). I think re-telling stories can only be cool for so long.

I disagree. The concept of retelling and re-imagining didn't go stale, the writers just stopped trying to reintroduce characters in exciting/interesting way. Compare Ultimate Thor to Ultimate Omega Red. Thor was giving a really great and cool revamp that bought out the best of the character's concept without dismissing his 616 fanbase. I remember on this site someone posted a story idea for introducing Omega red, is was a whole arc that focus on soviet super soldier programs. It was very interesting but when Bendis got around to introducing Omega Red he literally threw him away. Did not even try to make something interesting. The very source of his powers were written off as "eh, genetic and bionic enhances in random thugs happen". A lot of the writers forgot to try and fit this into a real world/modern setting. Which is what turn these retelling of stories into something brilliant.

That's interesting. So you don't know about the Cosmic Cube or AIM?

Thing is, there's nothing wrong with a re-telling. The first volume of THE ULTIMATES uses the Skrulls and the Avengers. Kleiser's "new" I suppose, and it kicks ass.

Yeah it's how Millar told the story, setting it in a realistic and modern eye's view, not what the story is.

Like you, I like the idea of Greg Stark, but am annoyed that such a character hasn't been mentioned until now. I honestly don't see why Greg Stark has to be Tony's brother, why he can't be someone else.

I completely agree, when he was introduced I just thought "Why?". I think it would have been brilliant to make him the Mandarin.

I like Kong a lot, but the other three... I can't understand what's even remotely appealing about them. :?

I actually liked Geldoff, I thought that arc was generally fun. Geldoff wasn't that appeal as euro trash but he could have definitely been built up from douchebag to a good character plus his origin in powers should have led to something bigger. As for the Magician the story was cool and interesting but just doesn't fit the UU.

 

[ProjectX2]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

I think it would have been brilliant to make him the Mandarin.

That would have been really cool.

 

[Plawsky]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

Welcome, Plawsky!

Like you, I like the idea of Greg Stark, but am annoyed that such a character hasn't been mentioned until now. I honestly don't see why Greg Stark has to be Tony's brother, why he can't be someone else.

Thanks. Ya - I think it could have just as easily been some other random smart/rich guy and been just as good of a story. Hopefully his background gets better than just "Tony's brother."

I like Kong a lot, but the other three... I can't understand what's even remotely appealing about them. :?

I thought Geldoff's power was cool, and it was a good arc (just like almost all of USM) - I just wish the character himself wasn't such a douche. He had a lot more potential.

Magician's reality-altering skills were entertaining at first, but he just ended up being a waste. I've never been a fan of "it never really happened" endings, and that's what it became - but I liked him up until that.

Syndicate started out really interesting to me in the bank robbery issue. However, all his appearances ended up being throw aways. I was hoping he (they, I guess) would be used to show a cool instance of 2 people sharing a power, some sort of dichotomy I guess (even though that sounds way more intellectual than I ever get when reading comics).

That's interesting. So you don't know about the Cosmic Cube or AIM?

Not much really - Fantastic Four is by far the big comic that I'm least familiar with. After reading UFF (which, aside from the first few arcs, was the weakest ultimate ongoing, imo) I saw the movie - but that piece of trash didn't teach me anything new. Didn't we see the cosmic cube in the UFF already with Thanos? If that's what was stolen from the Baxter in Ultimate Avengers, how does that fit with the time-loop Reed put it in before?

Thing is, there's nothing wrong with a re-telling. The first volume of THE ULTIMATES uses the Skrulls and the Avengers. Kleiser's "new" I suppose, and it kicks ass.

Ya, I guess that's true - and hopefully Armor Wars will be a good re-telling too, I still haven't picked it up - but for people who, unlike me, have read all the original 616 stories, I think it would be nice for some more new stories and characters. Then again, if it ain't broke, don't fix it I suppose...we don't want another Ultimatum.

 

[Gemini]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

Like you, I like the idea of Greg Stark, but am annoyed that such a character hasn't been mentioned until now. I honestly don't see why Greg Stark has to be Tony's brother, why he can't be someone else.

That's because Millar uses the "remember that guy? well this guy is even MORE awesome" train of thought alot. Making Gregory Stark essentially the Mycroft to Tony's Sherlock Holmes.

(Mycroft was Sherlock's older brother who was even better at deducing problems than Sherlock, but lacked the drive to undertake any actual detective work, much like how Gregory seems to be providing tech to Fury instead of being an Iron Man like Tony)

 

[DIrishB]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

Not much really - Fantastic Four is by far the big comic that I'm least familiar with. After reading UFF (which, aside from the first few arcs, was the weakest ultimate ongoing, imo) I saw the movie - but that piece of trash didn't teach me anything new. Didn't we see the cosmic cube in the UFF already with Thanos? If that's what was stolen from the Baxter in Ultimate Avengers, how does that fit with the time-loop Reed put it in before?

Actually, only the plans for the cosmic cube were stolen from the Baxter Building by Red Skull and AIM, not the cube itself. The cube is still 30,000 years in the past having just been discovered by Thanos.

Its even mentioned in UA #4 that AIM has some of the best scientists in the world trying to make sense of the plans to finish its construction.

 

[mike3717]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

I'm really enjoying it now. It's entertaining and fun and I guess mindless action, but it's not retarded like Loeb's mindless action.

I think it's going to be a lot better in the upcoming arcs.

See, I think it is kinda retarded. We have characters just kind of haphazardly thrown out there with little to no character development other than to showcase how annoying and utterly unlikeable they are. Hopefully this is just the UU recovering from the Loeb hangover.

What surprised me is all the idea that this is mindless action - did no one notice how much thought Millar put into Cap? It's quite evident Mark Millar adores Captain America. This whole issue showcased his character, from his television habits to his ability to deal with vastly superior forces armed against him. I think Millar did well here.

I agree for the most part but I didn't think it was very "Cap like" to hide behind a bunch of kids for strategic advantage.

 

[X_Toad]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

You certainly don't expect Captain America to use a criminal/terrorist/cowardly strategy, it's true. Not even the Ultimate version, who is known to be such a jerkass. Unless of course he truly hates the french like some people hates black people. But even that would go to far I think.

 

[Ironlurker]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

Terrorist hide behind human shields.

Captain America uses strategy to defeat a superior foe. He was in front of the children the whole time. The media was the second big check on any harm coming to those children.

 

[ProjectX2]

Re: Ultimate Avengers (Discussion & Spoilers)

Someone asked Millar if this Rhodes was the same as the one from Ultimate Iron Man:

Yep. The only appearance he had before was the Scott Card mini (though I'm not referencing Tony's abilities he had there, but not contrdaicting them either). These were set years back when he was a nice kid hanging out with Tony and before Tony ****ed him over. This all ties into Gregory's back-story too and forms a plot-line running through my 24 issues. Basically, we get to see how he became a pain in the ass bad ass. Black Ops is full of **** ups.