The Ultimates 2 #12 Discussion (SPOILERS!)

Ultimate MJ said:
I like your explanation the best.
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Why thank you.
Its not hard to use a little imagination to fill in the blanks and explain why he's around.
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Sometimes it requires a lot, even defying the laws of logic, but it can be done.

Like I said, its a minor thing, but I just thought I would point it out.
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Valid question in my opinion.

vintsukka said:
Wasn't Swarm supposed to be killed with a bug spray?
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I thought Millar had said that.

Nope. They only appear in #11 in two panels:

Dr Braddock :"They've got us over a barrel, Brian. The Union even look like they're going in, and the Liberators say they'll launch America's atomic arsenal. We're in a stalemate, son. Anything we do can only make things worse."
Cap Britain: "Actually, there is one option we haven't considered..."

So, I guess the option he was talking about was using secret identities.
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Sweet, looks like my memory is working ok. Thats what I thought happened.
 
God Ultimates 1 and 2 are great. Best thing the universe has to offer any reader.

And after reading this book, I loved the little easter egg, loved the deaths, loved the action. LOVED the double splash page of Thor's return (it's my desktop right now!).

And a great saddeness fell on me.

Oh GOD! Millar and Hitch are leaving and there's no way Loeb and Mad will do half as good of a job as Millar and Hitch. This book will go down massively in work.

So, I've depressed myself. And I don't like the changing of hands between creative teams. If only Loeb was someone that matched the tone of Ultimates. And Joe Mad's back, I haven't seen him draw something like 10 years. And that cover with Venom on it doesn't help me have faith in the incoming team.

But on to this issue and the topic at hand.

The issue was great. If there's one problem with it it's that it's too short and we don't see enough fighting between Hulk and Abomination. I feel having Abomination killed so early on is a mistake, he's one of the few villains that can match Hulk in single combat. And we went through him too quick. Still a cool death.

Swarm was also taken out quickly, well...really everyone but Darth Red was taken out quick.

Ironman6. Big ship with massive firepower. It must be destroyed soon, or Tony's stuck in it, or something because that things too powerful.

Maybe Perun will destroy it...and maybe Tony with it?

Also, is there an issue 13 coming out or is this our ending?
 
Mark Millar doesn't disappoint. I loved pretty much every fight but Cap and Darth Red. I would have been a lot better if they didn't end up in a lightsaber duel. Also, how is it that Cap can break the thing in two with his boot? Shouldn't that have taken his foot off? I may not have liked the lightsaber angle, but I loved seeing the panel where Cap spins around and cuts five flyers in half. Classic.

I loved Quiksilver killing Tornado. Tearing someone apart with air friction is just awesome. This was my favorite kill.

I would have liked to see the Abomination-Hulk fight last a little bit longer, but it was still great. Seeing the Hulk tears someone's arms off and then punch their head off will always make me smile. :D I would have like to see the Hulk more Banner like, though.

All I can say is one armed Fury can still deliver a hell of an *** whooping.

I loved seeing the Union show up like that. You rarely think of heroes showing up to a fight undercover, which is why what makes this so great.

I could have done without Jan turning into Giant Woman, but it was forgive able. I don't see why she would fare better in that state than the Giant Men that bought it in issue ten.

Iron Man 6 is nothing like what I would have pictured, but I still love it. It's basically just a flying battleship which is cool. I also loved that he was drunk and still kicking ***. All that was needed was Tony doing Karaoke to bad 80's pop songs over the intercom. Can't you just picture Tony blasting away fliers while singing Jessie's Girl?

Overall, great issue. I have no idea what they're going to put in issue 13 other than a huge fight between Loki and Thor. My bet is the cover to issue 13 is going to have a Thor in a bad *** pose, dare I say cooler than issue five.

5/5
 
DIrishB said:
Quite true, though I think the parallels only go so far. I don't think Jesus ever kicked the crap out of anyone with a giant hammer. Still very nice ending, and great two page rendition of Thor's triumphant return.
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After over 40 years of listening to the gospel every weekend, I can tell you that if Jesus did any of that, no one ever wrote about it. And I would think that something like that would definitely make it into someone's account of His life.

I think for Seldes' birthday I'll have that blown up into a poster and send it to her. ;)
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Must be a mighty impressive picture. Bless you. :D I'll go clear some wall space in my office. (Or, better yet, at home....)
 
Foolsfolly said:
Ironman6. Big ship with massive firepower. It must be destroyed soon, or Tony's stuck in it, or something because that things too powerful.
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Well, it's not like he can use it in hand-to-hand combat; it's too big.
 
Seldes Katne said:
Must be a mighty impressive picture. Bless you. :D I'll go clear some wall space in my office. (Or, better yet, at home....)
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Knowing your minor and healthy obsession with the character, I'm sure you'll enjoy it. It really is a great piece of comic art. Really in your face, but in a subtle way...completely unlike Madureira's art. ;)
 
Hawkeye has undoubtedly been the star of the series - great writing for him.
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So far. I just hope he gets his due. Someone's got a lot coming to them. I hope. Though on a different note, it might be an interesting direction to take the character, in terms of him not getting a personal revenge. Since as I mentioned all the Liberators have been taken out, as well as accomplices (Black Widow...not Hank Pym, yet), there's no one for Hawkeye to "get his moment with". This could be a running plot line for the character and give him a whole new depth. Could work either way, if done right.
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Well, I think the scene where he escapes and confronts his torturer and Dragomir may be all the "revenge" we'll actually see. Depending, of course, on what's left of the Black Widow. I know we saw some provisional Joe Mad sketches for her, but it's kinda hard to see how that's going to work, assuming it's the same Black Widow. A new one might pop up and say "no, no, that was really Yelena Belova, and I'M the real Natasha Romanova."

If Hawkeye survives #13 (and I'm pretty sure he will) he hasn't turned up in any of the discussions for V3 (the same is true for Quicksilver and Hank Pym), so maybe in V3 he'll have gone back to black ops and be wandering around Europe and the mid-east, hunting Liberators backers.
 
Rhyo said:
Well, I think the scene where he escapes and confronts his torturer and Dragomir may be all the "revenge" we'll actually see. Depending, of course, on what's left of the Black Widow. I know we saw some provisional Joe Mad sketches for her, but it's kinda hard to see how that's going to work, assuming it's the same Black Widow. A new one might pop up and say "no, no, that was really Yelena Belova, and I'M the real Natasha Romanova."

If Hawkeye survives #13 (and I'm pretty sure he will) he hasn't turned up in any of the discussions for V3 (the same is true for Quicksilver and Hank Pym), so maybe in V3 he'll have gone back to black ops and be wandering around Europe and the mid-east, hunting Liberators backers.
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Quicksilver was mentioned in the annual, so probably he will survive the U2. But I don't know if he is going to stay in the group (Although, the way he sees everyone as friends, I think he will stay.).
I think Pym will not be in the Ultimates, but will appear from time to time. He did gave Janet the thing to finish Swarm and took care of the other Liberators. If Jan confirm his infiltration he will be saved.
Hawkeye has to stay! I hate 616 Hawkeye, but he is so badass in the UU.
 
Ultimate Quicksilver said:
Quicksilver was mentioned in the annual, so probably he will survive the U2. But I don't know if he is going to stay in the group (Although, the way he sees everyone as friends, I think he will stay.).
I think Pym will not be in the Ultimates, but will appear from time to time. He did gave Janet the thing to finish Swarm and took care of the other Liberators. If Jan confirm his infiltration he will be saved.
Hawkeye has to stay! I hate 616 Hawkeye, but he is so badass in the UU.
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Janet went to see Hank in issue 9, I beleive. I wouldn't be suprised if he told her that he was infiltrating an enemy team using Ultron and gave her the serum then. I like Pym. He's a certefied *******, but he's got a lot of depth and I'd hate to see him just die.

And seeing as Scarlet Witch will be with the Ultimate in 3, I'd assume Quicksilver will be as well. If they split from the government, I assume Hawkeye will remain loyal to SHIELD. Especially now that it looks like Banner may decide to join the Ultimates as a member. He's in control now, so. . .
 
Ironman6. Big ship with massive firepower. It must be destroyed soon, or Tony's stuck in it, or something because that things too powerful.
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It would be pretty cool if Tony wrecked it next issue because he was drunk.
 
Ultimate Quicksilver said:
Quicksilver was mentioned in the annual, so probably he will survive the U2. But I don't know if he is going to stay in the group (Although, the way he sees everyone as friends, I think he will stay.).
I think Pym will not be in the Ultimates, but will appear from time to time. He did gave Janet the thing to finish Swarm and took care of the other Liberators. If Jan confirm his infiltration he will be saved.
Hawkeye has to stay! I hate 616 Hawkeye, but he is so badass in the UU.
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Now that the Ultimates aren't going to be associated with SHIELD (I think that has been discussed), I would love to see Ultimate SHIELD. Just have adventures with Fury, Hawkeye (who is still in the military), and others. Maybe Agent Woo... maybe some Cap...

It'd be fun. And get people their fury fix. MILLAR AND HITCH CAN DO IT!
 
Did anyone else notice that at the bottom of the cover it said "Avengers?" I didn't catch it right away, and I didn't really care initially, but then it started getting to me. The Ultimates has worked hard to keep from being called Ultimate Avengers and now they go ahead and put it right on the cover. I know it's just a marketing thing so people associate it with the Avengers, but still bothers me. I hope they don't keep it. The Ultimates may be the Ultimate Avengers in spirit, but the name represents it's uniqueness to all the other Ultimate titles. Now I'm worried they're going to change the name of the team to the Avengers.
 
iceman said:
Now that the Ultimates aren't going to be associated with SHIELD (I think that has been discussed), I would love to see Ultimate SHIELD. Just have adventures with Fury, Hawkeye (who is still in the military), and others. Maybe Agent Woo... maybe some Cap...

It'd be fun. And get people their fury fix. MILLAR AND HITCH CAN DO IT!
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It's been discussed, but as far as I know it hasn't been confirmed that the Ultimates are leaving SHIELD. For all we know they'll still be on the gov't payroll in Ultimates 3. And I doubt Millar and Hitch would do that book anyway. They have grander projects waiting in the wings.
 
MaxwellSmart said:
Did anyone else notice that at the bottom of the cover it said "Avengers?" I didn't catch it right away, and I didn't really care initially, but then it started getting to me. The Ultimates has worked hard to keep from being called Ultimate Avengers and now they go ahead and put it right on the cover. I know it's just a marketing thing so people associate it with the Avengers, but still bothers me. I hope they don't keep it. The Ultimates may be the Ultimate Avengers in spirit, but the name represents it's uniqueness to all the other Ultimate titles. Now I'm worried they're going to change the name of the team to the Avengers.
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...was't Avengers the title for this issue?
 
DIrishB said:
Knowing your minor and healthy obsession with the character, I'm sure you'll enjoy it. It really is a great piece of comic art. Really in your face, but in a subtle way...completely unlike Madureira's art. ;)
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"Minor?" "Healthy?"

Do I detect a note of sarcasm there?
 
I want to see the reasoning why SHIELD and The Ultimates split... The only thing I can think of is that there's an international law stating no country is to possess or employ superhumans under the jurisdiction because it's like holding WMD.

I know a lot of people think there's gonna be some major riff between them but really what do The Ultimates have to be pissed at Nick Fury about?
 
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