Is there an experiment that was being done with this? I've never heard of one, and I think this was way to big to run as an experiment.

I really think it was only about simplifying things for (and to draw in) new readers. Nothing more.

Experiment may not have been an ideal choice of words. Perhaps "gamble" would have been better. But I think it applies in the sense that DC hadn't done anything like this in its long history. Sure, they had reboots of characters and some reshuffling of the line etc but to actually cancel every title they have, scrap all their history (or some of it as the case may be) and start over in a bid to attract new readers was a pretty bold move. Especially not knowing if it would work or not.
 
well, actually they did something pretty similar in the 80s with Crisis on Infinite Earths. That was when the earth two heroes' history got folded into the regular DC heroes history, its when Superman's and Batman's origins were revamped (in Man of Steel and Year One respectively). The JLA's history got revamped then too, as did Wonder Woman's and so on.

The new 52 may have been a bigger reboot than the original crisis (I'm not sure how you would even begin to try to compare the two) but it certainly wasn't the first time they had done it.
 
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Zombipanda said:
All I can say is, I'm reading more DC books than I would have before. Granted, I'm still waiting until they're in trades to buy them, but DC's getting more money from me than they were before the launch.

Same here. By far.

Zombipanda said:
I think more important than the reboot itself is the consistent publishing cap of 52 books and the regular pruning of the line.

I agree, as that relates to accommodating new readers.

mike3717 said:
scrap all their history (or some of it as the case may be) and start over in a bid to attract new readers was a pretty bold move. Especially not knowing if it would work or not.

I might be nitpicking here, but I still think that's inaccurate. That did happen to a degree, but you seem to be suggesting that this is a regular reboot, and I really don't think that's the case.
 
Zombipanda said:
I think more important than the reboot itself is the consistent publishing cap of 52 books and the regular pruning of the line.

I was thinking about this the other day. Maybe even 52 books is too many. I'm more of a Marvel guy, but if I could purchase one X-Men book a month and not feel like I was missing info b/c I'm not getting the other 8 books, I would probably buy X-Men. The same is true of Avengers.

I feel like Marvel and DC should cut WAY back on the number of books they write and focus on writing a few quality stories that are mostly self-contained and maybe only cross over from time to time. The way it is now, it's overwhelming and I feel like most people would feel too intimidated to branch out and buy different books.

Part of the reason I originally got so heavily into the Ultimate universe was because I could buy four books a month and the occasional miniseries and get the whole thing. It was a doable commitment and I stuck with it for a while even after the quality dropped.

Maybe it's too radical of a strategy, but I think the industry as a whole would benefit from the big two purging maybe half of their titles and focusing on quality, self-contained stories.
 
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I was thinking about this the other day. Maybe even 52 books is too many. I'm more of a Marvel guy, but if I could purchase one X-Men book a month and not feel like I was missing info b/c I'm not getting the other 8 books, I would probably buy X-Men. The same is true of Avengers.

I feel like Marvel and DC should cut WAY back on the number of books they write and focus on writing a few quality stories that are mostly self-contained and maybe only cross over from time to time. The way it is now, it's overwhelming and I feel like most people would feel too intimidated to branch out and buy different books.

Part of the reason I originally got so heavily into the Ultimate universe was because I could buy four books a month and the occasional miniseries and get the whole thing. It was a doable commitment and I stuck with it for a while even after the quality dropped.

Maybe it's too radical of a strategy, but I think the industry as a whole would benefit from the big two purging maybe half of their titles and focusing on quality, self-contained stories.

It's not too radical. I completely, totally, 100% agree. That was a huge draw on the Ultimate line for me as well (that and the real worldliness factor that it used to have), even if I might not have realized it at first.

I feel like a lot of these extra books have an arc or two worth of usable stories before they just become crap that one one buys. I wish they would do more of them as miniseries or graphic novels instead of new ongoings that start off strong (or strong enough) and die off because people realize they aren't any good.


Bringing this back around - is there a larger purpose to the Batman books that are out now? I can't tell by reading them, so I have to ask...does each book serve a specific purpose distinct from the others? I thought that, for example, Batman was more of the "hero" book and Detective Comics was more of a crime/detective book but maybe that's not the case. None of them seem different from the others in that regard, so I just wondered if they were supposed to be. It's probably naive of me to think it's anything meaningful or something other than a cash grab, but I dunno.
 
The problem is, if you cut one book out of the line, the remaining books need to make up for the sales difference. Pulling up the January sales figures, there's three "core" Batman books starring Bruce Wayne: Batman, Detective, The Dark Knight. And they all sit in the top six, and the lowest selling is still circulating about 76,000. While you'd save some money by not having to pay the writer and artist for those books, the fact is, you'd have to make up most of that difference by increasing sales on the other Bat-books, which means an average uptick in sales on the other two books (conservatively) of 35,000. Alternately, there are books like Frankenstein and Demon Knights that barely hit 20,000 but are still getting supported. If it takes a couple extra stupid Batman books bought by stupid fanboys to insure more interesting fringe books continue to be published, I'm all for it.
 
Yeah, that's a fair point. I wonder if that's the case for all the characters/teams with multiple books, though.

Well, logic would dictate that the reason there are so many X-Men (for instance) books is that X-Men books sell. The sticky point is, the books that seem to hover right at the cut-off point for profitability (which seems to be roughly a circulation of about 20,000) like X-Factor and Generation Hope are also the books that are least tied in to the continuity mess. I would love to see a publishing model where each book in a franchise has its own unique voice that's not tied too strongly into crossover with other books. But there's two problems with that. One is, the books that really seem to sell are the ones tied into the whole incestuous mess. So the question there is, are people buying these books because they cross over, or are the companies taking the big titles with big creators and intentionally having them cross over, and the sales figures are more tied to the titles and teams? Second is my feeling that Marvel and DC are generally trying to give each book its own flavor, but it doesn't always work out the way they wanted. There's only so much talent to go around and it's always hard to tell which books will succeed and which will flounder. Most new books released are given a strong pitch towards how they individualize themselves when they're announced, but intent and execution aren't always balanced. I agree with you that, as a fan, less books with more quality would be ideal, but I understand the financial reasons to keep things the way they are, even though it only feeds into the short-term cannibalistic profit model that's been in existence at least since the institution of the direct market.

I do think the double shipping schedule Marvel has taken up is potentially a step in the practical direction. Spidey has managed to be essentially a one-book franchise that manages to keep sales up by putting out at least a couple issues each month. Same with Fantastic Four, which has been split into two books, both under the direction of the same writer. To a lesser extent, Bendis' control over the Avengers franchise is the same thing. You manage to keep the integrity of a creator driven franchise storyline while minimizing tie-ins and profit loss from having to cut books out of the equation. Given how many of their books are now shipping twice a month, it would be nice to see them cut some of the fat, but it seems like a step in the right direction, still.

If Hickman is writing New Avengers and Avengers as two interwoven books shipping altogether say, three or four weeks out of the year, that seems like a reasonable compromise. But the pricing of books is still ludicrous.
 
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I do think it's a waste they're not looking at more distribution models.

Digital is a great opportunity for publishers since it cuts out the cost of publishing and retail, but the pricing being practically the same as print is ludicrous. At the least, every physical copy of a book should come with a digital code. It costs them nothing (or next to) and gets print readers into the digital marketplace.

I'd also be more inclined to buy more books if they worked towards packaging together the books that tie together. A monthly black and white manga-style volume on cheaper paper and at a discounted rate containing say, the core Avengers books for the preceding month, or Uncanny X-Force/UXM/Wolverine and the X-Men seems like a pretty reasonable experiment to try out.
 
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I'd also be more inclined to buy more books if they worked towards packaging together the books that tie together. A monthly black and white manga-style volume on cheaper paper and at a discounted rate containing say, the core Avengers books for the preceding month, or Uncanny X-Force/UXM/Wolverine and the X-Men seems like a pretty reasonable experiment to try out.

Didn't Crossgen do something like that?
 
I am so disappointed with Action Comics. Grant Morrison is my favorite writer and this is just not good.

The idea of Superman killing off his alter ego to have more time to be Superman is a pretty interesting one but I just don't care about the story.
 

I was actually thinking about something related to this the other day.

Is there enough "room" for all 4 Robins (not counting Stephanie) in continuity? Damien is 10 and Bruce was already Batman when he was conceived, so in current continuity he's been Batman for at least 11 years. I always thought that at any given time Bruce has been Batman for about 10 years or so, but I don't know what I'm basing that on.
 
I was actually thinking about something related to this the other day.

Is there enough "room" for all 4 Robins (not counting Stephanie) in continuity? Damien is 10 and Bruce was already Batman when he was conceived, so in current continuity he's been Batman for at least 11 years. I always thought that at any given time Bruce has been Batman for about 10 years or so, but I don't know what I'm basing that on.

Wasn't Damian artificially grown?
 
I'm pretty sure no one at DC has any idea what they are doing.

I can't wait for the next half-assed reboot in a few years time.
 
Wasn't Damian artificially grown?

Talia has clones ready to go for organ harvesting but I don't remember Damien himself being artificially grown. In fact, if I remember correctly we saw a couple flashbacks of Talia pregnant.
 
I'm starting to feel like part of the writing process for Batwoman includes trying to make everything as difficult to follow as possible. I might stop reading this.
 

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