The New 52 general discussion

[Zombipanda]

Swamp Thing is almost always good. It brings out the best in creators.

I've actually been kind of disappointed in it until the last issue. It had its strengths, but it's been roundly getting its ass kicked by Animal Man. But this issue was pretty great.

I thought Earth 2 was surprisingly good, Dial H was interesting enough to stick with for a while, and the New 52 FCBD thing was a mess that probably put off both new and old readers. Pandora's Box? The Question? Trinity War? What the hell is going on? I already don't care about this event and it hasn't even started.

I'll stick with the titles that don't make me question my sanity after I've read them: a.k.a. the comics that could have easily been published in the old DC Universe. I might just be an angry old man but I find it incredible that it only took a few months for this "new" universe to become as needlessly complicated as the old one. I guess that's what happens when you try to do a reboot and a revamp at the same time. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

No, I realized a few months ago that the new universe reads pretty much exactly the same as the old universe and gave up caring about almost all of the books.

Can you summarize or explain? I didn't read that issue.

There are seven wizards from seven cultures that control all magic and they punished Pandora for opening a box (with eternal life) and turned Judas into the Phantom Stranger for being Judas, and turned some guy into an amnesiac immortal the Question for being a dick or something. And now in the present day Pandora's stolen her box from some secret room full of artifacts and inside of it was a skull necklace from Hot Topic, and in the future a bunch of superheroes are going to fight a bunch of other superheroes for some reason.

I didn't think it was needlessly complicated. Just... bad.... as Geoff Johns stories sometimes have a tendency to be. It looks like he's trying to do an action figure franchiser thing with Shazam same as he did with the various color corps. It's certainly not the best foot for DC to put forward for new readers. And it just plain wasn't good.

 

[ProjectX2]

Can you summarize or explain? I didn't read that issue.

There are seven wizards from seven cultures that control all magic and they punished Pandora for opening a box (with eternal life) and turned Judas into the Phantom Stranger for being Judas, and turned some guy into an amnesiac immortal the Question for being a dick or something. And now in the present day Pandora's stolen her box from some secret room full of artifacts and inside of it was a skull necklace from Hot Topic, and in the future a bunch of superheroes are going to fight a bunch of other superheroes for some reason.

Now imagine this is your very first DC comic. This is what they put out to attract new readers.

 

[Ultimate Houde]

It was horrible.

 

[Zombipanda]

Now imagine this is your very first DC comic. This is what they put out to attract new readers.

Well, that's the problem. They assume new readers are going to be walking into a comic shop.

This myth of "attracting new readers" using the same outdated direct market system is absolutely laughable.

 

[E]

There are seven wizards from seven cultures that control all magic and they punished Pandora for opening a box (with eternal life) and turned Judas into the Phantom Stranger for being Judas, and turned some guy into an amnesiac immortal the Question for being a dick or something. And now in the present day Pandora's stolen her box from some secret room full of artifacts and inside of it was a skull necklace from Hot Topic, and in the future a bunch of superheroes are going to fight a bunch of other superheroes for some reason.

Thanks. Doesn't really sound like something I'd be interested in.

It sounds like something Marvel was really bad at in the 90s - these far-reaching, important cosmic type stories staring characters that no reader could possibly care about.

Dial H For Hero was decent. I'll keep with that for a while.

 

[E]

I liked Action Comics #9. Definitely a step up from the previous 8 issues, which really surprised me in their mediocrity considering Grant Morrison wrote them.

A spinoff or secondary set of stories with Superman of Earth 23 would be cool.

 

[Zombipanda]

I liked Action Comics #9. Definitely a step up from the previous 8 issues, which really surprised me in their mediocrity considering Grant Morrison wrote them.

A spinoff or secondary set of stories with Superman of Earth 23 would be cool.

I assume the whole bit with Superman-23 is going to end up tying back in to Morrison's run further down the line, so it might be better to leave it as it is.

As for Action Comics in general, I felt like it started off a little weak but with a lot of potential. A lot of great ideas not fully realized. And then once the build-up to Brainiac started, it completely derailed. This was the best issue by far, and I hope it's a sign of Morrison finding solid footing.

 

[ProjectX2]

I agree. Action Comics #9 was the first issue that came close to All-Star Superman's greatness. The rest has been pretty dull, but I did like the whole Brainiac = the internet thing.

 

[Friday]

I've actually been kind of disappointed in it until the last issue. It had its strengths, but it's been roundly getting its ass kicked by Animal Man. But this issue was pretty great.

The first few issues didn't do much for me but once he introduced the little Arcane kid it took off.

'm extra confused by the Question. After all the good work they've done with the character in the last few years I don't understand why they'd do such a major change to him. This isn't a revamp or a reboot. Its throwing out everything and using an exsisting character design for a new character. Its stupid.

And its also stupid that the best issue of Morrison's Action is the first one that doesn't have Earth 1 Superman in it.

 

[E]

Detective #9 was decent. The series itself hasn't been much to talk about but maybe the Court of Owls tie-ins are going to raise the bar for some of the other Batman books not titled Batman.

Earth 2 was also pretty good, although as of right now I can't remember a single thing that happened in it.

 

[Friday]

Detective #9 was decent. The series itself hasn't been much to talk about but maybe the Court of Owls tie-ins are going to raise the bar for some of the other Batman books not titled Batman.

Earth 2 was also pretty good, although as of right now I can't remember a single thing that happened in it.

Well Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman all died. There was that.

 

[E]

Well Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman all died. There was that.

Oh yeah. That was pretty major I guess.

 

[Deathrex]

I have yet to pick up anything beyond issue #1 of justice league from the new line of comics. Now some time has passed i want to know, is it worth the money? Overall is it being handle decently?

 

[Zombipanda]

I have yet to pick up anything beyond issue #1 of justice league from the new line of comics. Now some time has passed i want to know, is it worth the money? Overall is it being handle decently?

It's not all that much different from before the relaunch. None of the books are really redefining the genre but there's a few great books, a few terrible books, and a lot in between.

They've done a decent job of folding some semi-indie talent into the line but also seem strangely obsessed with pumping out books by mostly forgotten artists and writers from the garish nineties boom. Liefeld is inexplicably plotting three books. At the same time, they seem pretty good about keeping in low selling titles that have critical prestige attached while at the same time replacing the real drek with new books. And a few of the books are doing a great job of putting the artist front and center rather than focus on the writer, and the result is actually pretty stellar. Batwoman and Flash are both well worth it on the art and layout alone. I'm sure picking up some of the books would be worth it for you. What interests you?

 

[E]

but also seem strangely obsessed with pumping out books by mostly forgotten artists and writers from the garish nineties boom. Liefeld is inexplicably plotting three books.

Yeah, this is baffling to me. I don't know if it's a cost-cutting move or if they are trying to get this kind of thing trending again, for whatever reason.

 

[Zombipanda]

Yeah, this is baffling to me. I don't know if it's a cost-cutting move or if they are trying to get this kind of thing trending again, for whatever reason.

Well, the rumor I've heard (and it sounds legitimate) is that it has more to do with the new editor, Bob Harras, who edited Marvel and Wildstorm in the nineties. He's pallies with a lot of the old nineties blood like Lobdell, Liefeld, and Nicieza. So, an old dinosaur relying on people he knows.

 

[Ultimate Houde]

Wow.

This Shazam backup keeps getting worse and worse. They ruin Dr. Sivana completely.

 

[Zombipanda]

So, I was going to undertake the task of reading and reviewing the first story arc of all of the relaunched books but I.... I just can't do it.

There is so much garbage being published by DC right now.

(and holy ****. I've never read his stuff before, but I'm entirely certain now that Tom DeFalco is the worst writer in the history of language)

 

[E]

(and holy ****. I've never read his stuff before, but I'm entirely certain now that Tom DeFalco is the worst writer in the history of language)

We were just talking about how bad he is in another thread, but yeah, he probably is. His clone saga mini a couple years ago was the worst.

 

[Captain Canuck]

We were just talking about how bad he is in another thread, but yeah, he probably is. His clone saga mini a couple years ago was the worst.

oh, did he write that? yeah, that was miserably bad.

 

[E]

oh, did he write that? yeah, that was miserably bad.

That was him with Mackie, yeah.

This was on Wikipedia. I didn't realize the chain of events with the planning of the Clone Saga and his firing as EIC:

Ex-editor-in-chief Tom DeFalco said that under him, the Clone Saga would have been resolved in a different way: "Our plan was to structure the clone saga like a three-act play. Act One would climax at or around Amazing #400 - when we revealed that Pete was the clone and Ben was the real guy. Act Two would last around three months and follow Ben's adventures. In Act Three, Peter would triumphantly return as the one, true Spider-Man. Mark and I was hoping the Spider-crew could make Ben a viable character during his turn in the spotlight, and we planned to star Ben in his own monthly title after Peter returned. It was kind of like what I had already done with Thor and Thunderstrike—two very different titles based on a single concept. Of course, our plan went into the trash the day I got fired."

DeFalco also had a run on Fantastic Four which included Reed "dying", Sue changing her costume, and a bunch of other garbage. I think he also brought back the New Fantastic Four for one completely forgettable story. I was a die-hard FF fan back then, and I think the crapiness of hist stories played a major part in my becoming disillusioned with comics and walking away from them when I did.

 

[Bass]

That is common for most people. Tom DeFalco and Howard Mackie are why I get enraged by hacks. Hack writers who treat their job as some factory sluicing of hype aren't just professionally inept, but actually damaging to people as their awful writing, as you say, disillusions their audience into finding the whole concept of storytelling a waste of time.

 

[Zombipanda]

I can't speak to anything except issue nine of Legion Somethingorother that ties in to the DC teenybop crossover, but the dialogue was the worst thing I may have ever read.

 

[ProjectX2]

The Shazam back-up in the latest Justice League might have been the worst thing Geoff Johns has ever written. I lost count of the number of cliches.

 

[Zombipanda]

So here's a question for everyone. Out of the current 52 books, what would you drop?

And if you're feeling ambitious, what would you replace them with, and what books would you change creative teams on?

 

[Friday]

So here's a question for everyone. Out of the current 52 books, what would you drop?

And if you're feeling ambitious, what would you replace them with, and what books would you change creative teams on?

Well we know my answer to drops.

As for what to bring in... I dunno. DC seems to be leveraging most of their properties that'd likely be able to sustain an ongoing. Most of what's left is a niche property in an already niche market.

 

[Ultimate Houde]

Justice League Dark amped up it's game. It's introducing House of Mystery in the next issue, and is on the road to introduce the Books of Magic.

I'm excited.

 

[ProjectX2]

That's because Jeff Lemire has taken over.

 

[bluebeast]

So here's a question for everyone. Out of the current 52 books, what would you drop?

And if you're feeling ambitious, what would you replace them with, and what books would you change creative teams on?

I don't know what I would drop as I've taken a break from buying comics but I'd love to see a "Flash Family" book written by Johns or Waid. Barry Allen could use a bit more exposure if DC is serious about him being the Flash and I'd love a speedster team up with him Wally and Bart. Seriously DC bring back Wally West. Also, where's that Multiversity book Morrison was supposed to do?

 

[E]

The Shazam back-up in the latest Justice League might have been the worst thing Geoff Johns has ever written. I lost count of the number of cliches.

All of Shazam has been cliche after cliche. It's not interesting.