The Dark Knight {Spoilers Abound}

[Planet-man]

An actor, portray's a character, RDJ wasn't playing Tony Stark he was playing RDJ if he had become a billionaire, and never got stuck on drugs.

RDJ and Tony Stark were similar enough that the line between one and the other could be blurred easily.

We've established that Stark and Downey are similar people, I agreed with that. The point I made in the post you quoted still stands. Additional basic example: Downey may not be attracted to Pepper Potts for example, but he made me believe Stark was.

 

[Langsta]

Not the same thing as acting. Otherwise Jimmy Fallon would be a better actor than everyone involved here.:lol:

I'm just saying, the Joker's voice was a big part of Heath's performance....a big part of the Joker's persona....

 

[Gemini]

We've established that Stark and Downey are similar people, I agreed with that. The point I made in the post you quoted still stands. Additional basic example: Downey may not be attracted to Pepper Potts for example, but he made me believe Stark was.

We're getting off-topic, but I stand by what I said, there is a Difference between Acting, and playing Make Believe

RDJ was playing Make Believe

very good Make Believe, very convincing Make Believe, but Make Believe none the less.

 

[Planet-man]

The bottom line for me is that I found him to be more convincing, which is still the thing which acting hinges on, IMO.

 

[Langsta]

Who would you pick to replace Heath Ledger as the Joker in the next Batman film?

I think Daniel Day-Lewis would be a good replacement for Heath Ledger, better than Joseph Gordon-Levitt. Day-Lewis is a method actor, he's known for his devotion to his roles.

But I don't think the Joker should be in the next one.

 

[Planet-man]

I think Daniel Day-Lewis would be a good replacement for Heath Ledger, better than Joseph Gordon-Levitt. Day-Lewis is a method actor, he's known for his devotion to his roles.

But I don't think the Joker should be in the next one.

Heh, they were the two people I've been considering the most. I think Day-Lewis is probably the only person who'd even be accepted as a replacement for Heath given how big a deal his whole story here is now, but I think Gordon-Levitt might be a more seamless change. Then again, Day-Lewis could probably emulate Ledger's performance perfectly(and I wouldn't be surprised if he actually did it better than Ledger, for that matter), so I dunno. If I had to choose, I'd rather see Day-Lewis play the role. Whether or not he'd actually do it is another story, because he might think he was somehow insulting Ledger by doing it.

In terms of the whole "shouldn't appear again without Ledger/no need for him to come back" issue, I completely disagree that he's done here. The role was never intended to only be in one movie. They specifically made it a blue-balls, battle-but-not-the-war scenario because they wanted to bring him back in the next one. An actor's personal life(or, I guess, death) should NEVER interfere with planned, crafted storytelling(one of the reasons ongoing TV series can still be seen as a flawed medium i.e. LOST with whole storylines scrapped and characters bizarrely written out because the actors want to do something else). If they want to do the Joker, do the Joker. I think Heath Ledger would be the first to say that he'd want the character to come before himself.

By the way, was anyone else disappointed by the lack of the Batcave and Wayne Manor? That's the only thing that stops this from being as close to a definitive Batman movie as you could make today.

 

[DARKKNIGHT]

By the way, was anyone else disappointed by the lack of the Batcave and Wayne Manor? That's the only thing that stops this from being as close to a definitive Batman movie as you could make today.

Not really. I'm sure it will be in the next one. That is one of the reasons I think Nolan plans on doing a third; he leaves stuff like that unfulfilled. I wouldn't be surprised if they draw up a new Batmobile. Possibly one that looks more like the classic version.

 

[Void.M]

He's in jail?

Why would he have to appear at all?

Joker doesn't go to jail he goes to Arkham....because he's Ka-rayze.

As for recasting ever heard of the phrase''The Show must go on'' .

Ledger's dead that's sad but we have to move on and i'm sure there are others that are good for the roll.

Show Business is still business.

 

[Thor]

Daniel Day-Lewis huh? He's my second favorite actor of all time, but I'm not sure I'd want to see him in this role. Planet-man is right though, he could emulate his performance probably perfectly, and maybe do it better. Thats just the kind of skill he has as an actor. But I don't know, I want to see him take a shot at it, but not actually take the part.

Oh yeah, Tony Stark and RDJ's character from Kiss Kiss Bang Bang are not the same character.

 

[DIrishB]

I see what you're saying. I'm just saying don't kill him off. Maybe they should make no mention of him in the next one, and then in 7,8,9 years (or how ever long it takes) recast him. I think that would be enough time after the death of Heath, and would give a different actor a chance to do their interpretation. As good as Heath was (and he was excellent) I don't like the idea of the Joker never appearing in a Batman film again.

I'm fine if they just don't mention him. And its not like if a new actor playing Joker doesn't happen in the Nolan films, we won't ever see a Joker on screen again. After Nolan/Bale have finished their Batman runs, I'm sure a new creative team will come in and try to re-imagine the Batman fanchise again. And you know the Joker will be first choice as villain.

The filmmakers are kinda screwed. It's going to be hard for them to get a villain as interesting as the Joker

Agreed. This is why I think Bass' idea of introducing Bane in a third one works well. Bane is like the flip side of Batman villains. Cold, tactically calculating, and his physical equal (if not more). It opens up avenues for new plotlines (or almost a blending of Ra's and Joker's characters).

And apparently TDK took the one day box office record from Spider-man 3, with $66.4 million on Friday. This in addition to it's record box office for midnight showings.

A third Nolan Batman is guaranteed. Warner Bros. will do ANYTHING to bring him and Bale back after the critical and financial success this movie has already proven to be.

Performance wise, although yeah, it was a very engaging and entertaining performance, I was still very aware that Heath was acting the entire time, that every line and mannerism was just a carefully picked piece of a show. And plenty of other people could've done it, and look better in the part while doing so, and not be into drugs and unable to return for the next one, so ultimately and after all this time........... I'm still upset that they chose Heath Ledger for the role, and it wasn't good enough acting to deserve an Oscar nomination.

Your claim that you could've acted the part better is an incredible show of narcissism, and personally I think you're overly critical of Ledger's performance merely because you didn't want him in the role.

Everyon wants Javier Bardem based on his role in No Country; I don't. He played that character once, and he doesn't need to again.

Harry Knowles of AICN actually wants him to play the JOKER.

Stupid.

Javier Bardem as the Joker is stupid. I'd prefer someone else play Bane, but am probably more forgiving of him in the role than some are.

I thought his performance was a lot better than people who have WON Oscars before. Heath was completely embedded in his role and I don't think anyone else could have done it better.

Completely agree.

Loved it!



My girlfriend and I had an idea for Batman 3


Talia Head shows up, wanting revenge for her father's death. She hires Slade Wilson to assassinate Bruce Wayne. Maybe at the end, have Ra's reappear.

I swear that sounds like a porn star name.

I wouldn't be surprised if they draw up a new Batmobile. Possibly one that looks more like the classic version.

I was thinking the same thing when the Batmobile blew up in this one.

 

[Planet-man]

I'm fine if they just don't mention him. And its not like if a new actor playing Joker doesn't happen in the Nolan films, we won't ever see a Joker on screen again. After Nolan/Bale have finished their Batman runs, I'm sure a new creative team will come in and try to re-imagine the Batman fanchise again. And you know the Joker will be first choice as villain.

Oh boy! Only twelve years until more movie Joker!

*looks at watch*

Agreed. This is why I think Bass' idea of introducing Bane in a third one works well. Bane is like the flip side of Batman villains. Cold, tactically calculating, and his physical equal (if not more). It opens up avenues for new plotlines (or almost a blending of Ra's and Joker's characters).

Agreed. I think having Knightfall be to the third one what Year One and Long Halloween were to the first two is the most reliable way to meet/exceed the bar the first two have set.

Your claim that you could've acted the part better is an incredible show of narcissism, and personally I think you're overly critical of Ledger's performance merely because you didn't want him in the role.

I NEVER claimed I could've acted the part better. I said I think I would've done the part the exact same way. I think most people I know would've and that he covered a fairly easy set of things to embody in the role.

I didn't want him in the role like a year ago but for the past six months or so I've been more and more excited to see it, albeit still not seeing what the hype over the commercials was. I really wanted to think the performance was Oscar worthy, but it just didn't convince me and I could see all the little acting he was doing throughout.

Basically, I'd equate the performance to a painting that, although is a very large and very beautiful painting that you can't take your eyes off of with lots of awesome stuff going on in it and good use of perspective and spatial aesthetics, I can still see all the brush-strokes and can't call the painter a master because he was going for photorealism and not impressionism.

In terms of a grudge thing, even if I'd WANTED to think he sucked, if he was good enough it wouldn't be an issue for me when I actually see the movie. I went into Spirited Away expecting to and planning to hate and mock it and within the first ten minutes I was hooked and came out saying it was by far one of the best things I've ever seen or experienced.

 

[Dr.Strangefate]

There aren't a lot of actors who could have pulled it off as well, and nobody would have given us that exact performance. That came from Heath, but I do think other actors are capable of dedicating themself to the role to the same degree that Heath did... To a different result, but still in an admirable way.

Crispin Glover is by no means one of those actors, imho, but there are some others. I still think J Gordon-Levitt could be a good choice.

In general I disagree with your assertion that Heath's role was this perfectly constructed thing that all of these different actors could have filled. You are forgetting from the entire internal side of acting, and how much of this performance came from Heath and not Nolan. This wasn't a paint-by-numbers Joker by any means. You can tell the passion he put in that role, absolutely.

 

[DARKKNIGHT]

While Daniel Day Lewis may be a good choice to replace Ledger (if they do it at all), realistically I'm not sure DDL would go for a big budget comic book movie. Do you know how picky the guy is? If he did that would be awesome though. At times the Jokers voice did remind me of Daniel Plainview from There Will Be Blood.

 

[Gemini]

When, The Joker had that wig on in the hospital, I swear he looked like Willem Dafoe

not that I'm saying I want him to be the joker, I'm just saying it was a little striking

 

[Langsta]

While Daniel Day Lewis may be a good choice to replace Ledger (if they do it at all), realistically I'm not sure DDL would go for a big budget comic book movie. Do you know how picky the guy is? If he did that would be awesome though. At times the Jokers voice did remind me of Daniel Plainview from There Will Be Blood.

DDL has been in like, four movies in the last ten years.

I really don't want them to replace Ledger, and I doubt that they will, out of respect....there are other Batman villains that they could do, maybe not as good as the Joker....but I think I'd love to see Javier Bardem as BANE. You guys have been talking about it so much that I actually want to see it happen now. And he has to break Batman's back in the movie. KNIGHTFALL would be the perfect title.

I just saw this again. In IMAX. It's not that much different, but the images are much more vivid since the screen is like, 4 stories tall.

 

[bluebeast]

DDL has been in like, four movies in the last ten years.

I really don't want them to replace Ledger, and I doubt that they will, out of respect....there are other Batman villains that they could do, maybe not as good as the Joker....but I think I'd love to see Javier Bardem as BANE. You guys have been talking about it so much that I actually want to see it happen now. And he has to break Batman's back in the movie. KNIGHTFALL would be the perfect title.

I just saw this again. In IMAX. It's not that much different, but the images are much more vivid since the screen is like, 4 stories tall.

I don't know the feesability of Bane actually breaking the back of Batman. He'd deffinetly beat the **** out of him and nearly cripple him, but to come back from a broken spine would be completely unrealistic for the film.

 

[DARKKNIGHT]

I don't know the feesability of Bane actually breaking the back of Batman. He'd deffinetly beat the **** out of him and nearly cripple him, but to come back from a broken spine would be completely unrealistic for the film.

Indeed. I'm still not sold on the idea of Bane in the next one. In my opinion it doesn't go with the rest of Nolan's organized crime centric movies. I'm still hoping for Black Mask, and Catwoman, with Penguin in a supporting role. Unless of course the gods bless us with another Joker or Two-Face is alive. In those cases I'm not sure what I would want. There are just too many unanswered questions. I think it's safe to assume that they will be making another Batman though. $155.3 million...Suck on that Spidey.

 

[bluebeast]

Indeed. I'm still not sold on the idea of Bane in the next one. In my opinion it doesn't go with the rest of Nolan's organized crime centric movies. I'm still hoping for Black Mask, and Catwoman, with Penguin in a supporting role. Unless of course the gods bless us with another Joker or Two-Face is alive. In those cases I'm not sure what I would want. There are just too many unanswered questions. I think it's safe to assume that they will be making another Batman though. $155.3 million...Suck on that Spidey.

No, no, no. Bane should definetly be the main villain in the third film, with Black Mask and the Riddler as supporting antagonists. Catwoman could even appear as the love interest for Bruce.

 

[Langsta]

No, no, no. Bane should definetly be the main villain in the third film, with Black Mask and the Riddler as supporting antagonists. Catwoman could even appear as the love interest for Bruce.

Black Mask even made an appearance in the Batman: Knightfall comic.

If you want to see what Javier Bardem looks like with a shaved head, watch Collateral (he appears very briefly as Tom Cruise's boss). That's what I think Bane should look like.

I'm not that interested in seeing the Riddler.

 

[Doublehex]

No, no, no. Bane should definetly be the main villain in the third film, with Black Mask and the Riddler as supporting antagonists. Catwoman could even appear as the love interest for Bruce.

I don't know about the Riddler because then it would seem like he was riding on the Joker bandwagon. He just has too many similiarities with the Joker.

I think each cast of villains should be totally different from the previous cast. Just as Scarecrow and Ras'Al'Ghul was totally different from Joker and Two Face.

I am up for the Bane idea.