The Dark Knight {Spoilers Abound}

[Langsta]

Zach Snyder + the Dark Knight Returns = ?!?!

That would be ****ing awesome.

 

[Random]

Just a quick thing - When Batman has to choose between Rachel and Harvey; does he pick Harvey or did Joker LIE to him and switch where Rachel and Harvey were because he knew that Bats would go after Rachel?

Joker either lied or got it mixed up. Either way Batman was going after Rachel and choose to save her

Well ok then. All I am saying is that I think it is possible that he isn't dead.

I don't deny that the last shot is vague enough to be left open with him living. But if you look at the type of movie it is, the universe created here, and what Nolan wanted to do, it's pretty clear that he is dead. The thing is there's no reason to continue it for a couple of reasons.

1, What is he going to do next? What's the next logical step, what are you going to do with this character that's worth bringing him back. The process of him becoming a villain and going after Those he wishes judgment on has been done. So what is he suppose to do, revenge part 2? That's not original

2, How are you going to top it? As Bass pointed out Nolan only wanted to do the sequel cause he knew he could make it better. How would you top Dent's story? There's no where to go but down. If Dent is brought back it would be much more lame and potentially ruin this great character. I mean I heard people complain that the scarecrow did nothing in this movie, well thats what would happen to Dent who was an amazing character to begin with.

3, All suggestions for why Dent should be brought back I've heard is only to restore Batman's name. The thing is that's using Dent, ruining the perfect ending of his story so he can be a plot device solely to console the fans who are upset at the destruction of the status quo in TDK.

 

[ProjectX2]

The Joker lied. He does that.

All these pages arguing about whether Dent is alive or not. Holy Christ.

 

[J. Agamemnon]

Oh, you're so silly Hibiki.

I'm going to remember that when we actually meet.

 

[Bass]

It seems the consensus is he lied. Very cool. I'm amazed I didn't notice that. Only one way to be sure - I'll have to see it again. The horror.

 

[DARKKNIGHT]

Joker either lied or got it mixed up. Either way Batman was going after Rachel and choose to save her
I don't deny that the last shot is vague enough to be left open with him living. But if you look at the type of movie it is, the universe created here, and what Nolan wanted to do, it's pretty clear that he is dead. The thing is there's no reason to continue it for a couple of reasons.

1, What is he going to do next? What's the next logical step, what are you going to do with this character that's worth bringing him back. The process of him becoming a villain and going after Those he wishes judgment on has been done. So what is he suppose to do, revenge part 2? That's not original

2, How are you going to top it? As Bass pointed out Nolan only wanted to do the sequel cause he knew he could make it better. How would you top Dent's story? There's no where to go but down. If Dent is brought back it would be much more lame and potentially ruin this great character. I mean I heard people complain that the scarecrow did nothing in this movie, well thats what would happen to Dent who was an amazing character to begin with.

3, All suggestions for why Dent should be brought back I've heard is only to restore Batman's name. The thing is that's using Dent, ruining the perfect ending of his story so he can be a plot device solely to console the fans who are upset at the destruction of the status quo in TDK.

Those are pretty good points to be sure. In my opinion what makes Dent tragic isn't that he died (if you believe that sort of thing), but that he became Two-Face. To me at least we never saw "Two-Face" instead we got a really pissed off Dent who is scarred. I think that if handled properly, showing Two-Face's descent into crime would add an additional tragicness to the character. He was once a man who fought crime and symbolized hope and a new beginning to Gotham, and now he has become the very thing that he used to fight, a criminal. Him sticking around would be a constant reminder to Batman of his failure (in not stopping the Joker), and would serve as motivation never to let it happen again.

But honestly can anyone explain to me how Gordon playing dead would protect his family?

 

[marvelman]

see that's a take on two face that i never liked- a criminal (who steals, leads a gang, etc).

i think two face works much better as a lone wolf who hunts down criminals and kills them in his own twisted sense of justice- a murderous vigilante.

 

[ProjectX2]

see that's a take on two face that i never liked- a criminal (who steals, leads a gang, etc).

i think two face works much better as a lone wolf who hunts down criminals and kills them in his own twisted sense of justice- a murderous vigilante.

Exactly. The way I see it is Batman is the Good, Joker is the Bad and Two-Face is the Ugly. He lies somewhere in between. As Harvey Dent, he was good. As Two-Face, he is bad. When he is scarred by the acid, he becomes corrupt and begins dealing out his extreme justice. Batman cares for him so much because Dent is a good person doing the right thing but doing it the wrong way. He should be an extreme version of Batman, killing criminals instead of capturing them. He should be against Joker and Batman.

 

[bluebeast]

I saw it a third time and must say that it gets better every single time. They need to make a third film, I don't care what you say, they need to make a third movie.

 

[ProjectX2]

I'd be fine with a third if the Nolans and Goyer got together and actually had a story to tell. And Nolan has to do another movie in between to recharge.

 

[Joe Kalicki]

1, What is he going to do next? What's the next logical step, what are you going to do with this character that's worth bringing him back. The process of him becoming a villain and going after Those he wishes judgment on has been done. So what is he suppose to do, revenge part 2? That's not original

He can be a villain and do other things.

2, How are you going to top it? As Bass pointed out Nolan only wanted to do the sequel cause he knew he could make it better. How would you top Dent's story? There's no where to go but down. If Dent is brought back it would be much more lame and potentially ruin this great character. I mean I heard people complain that the scarecrow did nothing in this movie, well thats what would happen to Dent who was an amazing character to begin with.

They could top it with a better story. It's also possible to write a better story.

3, All suggestions for why Dent should be brought back I've heard is only to restore Batman's name. The thing is that's using Dent, ruining the perfect ending of his story so he can be a plot device solely to console the fans who are upset at the destruction of the status quo in TDK.

Dent being alive doesn't change the quality od The Dark Knight at all.

 

[moonmaster]

I have the trailers memorised. I know so much about the film. Yet I totally forgot I had seen pictures and clips of scenes with Jim Gordon in that I had yet to see on the film - I forgot so utterly that I thought Gordon was dead.

Everyone did. I thought they killed Gordon off.

I know. I didn't even remember that there were scenes in the trailers that hadn't happened yet until after he came back.

The fake Batmen and the fate of one of them (everyone jumped out of their seats when he hit the window).

The woman in front of me squealed.

But two things - firstly; the fate of Two-Face. Part of me feels it's a little lackluster... A LITTLE. I'm not sure. I like it, there's nothing wrong with it, but it's just... you end with your best. It's not the best scene in the movie. That's all.

I thought the last twenty minutes or so were the best part. Going from The Joker's last speech to the standoff with Harvey and Gordon's family. I really thought his son was going to die. And then Gordon's monologue at the end. I certainly thought they were the most powerful parts of the movie.

Secondly - Bale's Batman voice is still awful. I get he's overdoing it so no one recognises his voice but it sounds stupid when he's trying to be profound. When he's intimidating people by going, "Let her go!" or demanding to find out where the Joker is ("The fall won't kill me." "I'm counting on it.") - it's fine. It short small commanding bursts. But when he tries to go, "If you live long enough to be the villain..." he sounds retarded.

"WHURURHEEE!!"

The only part where I felt sad for Ledger is when he says "We'll be doing this forever".

Yeah, I said the same thing.

1, What is he going to do next? What's the next logical step, what are you going to do with this character that's worth bringing him back. The process of him becoming a villain and going after Those he wishes judgment on has been done. So what is he suppose to do, revenge part 2? That's not original

EXACTLY.

I want one person to provide me with a good way that Dent could come back that wouldn't be contrived. Dent's ambition was to get revenge on the people who he believed wronged him. The only unfinished business he would have is to finish going after Gordon, and that doesn't necessarily equal to a massive villainous plot.

The only way I could think of him coming back is as a plot device to save Batman's reputation or in some lame plot to "make Gotham pay". But that would be dumb.

The best thing I can compare it to is the Saw movies. I don't like any of the Saw movies, but in the first one Jigsaw's plot at least is understandable, from a twisted perspective. But with each movie, his motivations became more and more convoluted and his death traps became more and more pointless.

If Two-Face comes back, whatever he does will feel convoluted and pointless and the third movie will be just another typical superhero movie with a typical villain.

Harvey's story was done very well and fit Nolan's world perfectly.

Him coming back as a typical villain would not.

Those are pretty good points to be sure. In my opinion what makes Dent tragic isn't that he died (if you believe that sort of thing), but that he became Two-Face. To me at least we never saw "Two-Face" instead we got a really pissed off Dent who is scarred. I think that if handled properly, showing Two-Face's descent into crime would add an additional tragicness to the character. He was once a man who fought crime and symbolized hope and a new beginning to Gotham, and now he has become the very thing that he used to fight, a criminal. Him sticking around would be a constant reminder to Batman of his failure (in not stopping the Joker), and would serve as motivation never to let it happen again.

Why would he become a criminal? He had a reason to harm people in The Dark Knight but what reason would he have to just commit crimes?

 

[Jaggyd]

Exactly. The way I see it is Batman is the Good, Joker is the Bad and Two-Face is the Ugly. He lies somewhere in between. As Harvey Dent, he was good. As Two-Face, he is bad. When he is scarred by the acid, he becomes corrupt and begins dealing out his extreme justice. Batman cares for him so much because Dent is a good person doing the right thing but doing it the wrong way. He should be an extreme version of Batman, killing criminals instead of capturing them. He should be against Joker and Batman.

Well, he would have been against the Joker, but fate said otherwise.

 

[ProjectX2]

Well, he would have been against the Joker, but fate said otherwise.

Yep.

And while I do agree that Two-Face should've been saved, I liked that they managed to fit him in here and make him work. The whole corruption of hope theme was great and I liked that it applied to Dent, Gordon and Batman.

 

[Joe Kalicki]

Two Face could easily come back as a villain. The psychologicaal damage and his obsession with the number two could play out. Who cares if it's "just another super-hero movie?" It would still be awesome, and The Dark Knight wouldn't be any worse for it.

 

[J. Agamemnon]

Two Face could easily come back as a villain. The psychologicaal damage and his obsession with the number two could play out. Who cares if it's "just another super-hero movie?" It would still be awesome, and The Dark Knight wouldn't be any worse for it.

Yeah but the genre of movies is quickly evolving. No one is going to want to see another blockbuster superhero flick like x-men or spiderman. They're now going to want substance. Batman Begins started it. Iron Man elaborated it. Dark Knight set the standard for every movie after it. Punisher War Journal might even flop because of it if it doesn't meet those standards and Watchmen is only going to keep the standard that Superhero movies can have more substance than they're usually enamored to.

 

[Langsta]

What kind of gasoline was Two-Face burned with? Is that considered kerosene?

I'm not familiar with gasoline types. I don't even really know what kerosene is.

 

[Joe Kalicki]

Yeah but the genre of movies is quickly evolving. No one is going to want to see another blockbuster superhero flick like x-men or spiderman. They're now going to want substance. Batman Begins started it. Iron Man elaborated it. Dark Knight set the standard for every movie after it. Punisher War Journal might even flop because of it if it doesn't meet those standards and Watchmen is only going to keep the standard that Superhero movies can have more substance than they're usually enamored to.

No, I don't think that's so. Spider-Man 3 and X-Men 3 were both better than Batman Begins. Made more money too.

And Iron Man is definitely no more than a normal super-hero movie.

 

[Gemini]

What kind of gasoline was Two-Face burned with? Is that considered kerosene?

I'm not familiar with gasoline types. I don't even really know what kerosene is.

gasoline is just gasoline, the only differences between gas are additives and so on, kerosene is a different chemical

 

[moonmaster]

No, I don't think that's so. Spider-Man 3 and X-Men 3 were both better than Batman Begins. Made more money too.

And Iron Man is definitely no more than a normal super-hero movie.

Eeeeeeeeeeewww.

Joe is obviously infested with brain worms of some kind.