Punisher MAX (Ennis #1-60) Discussion *Spoilers*

Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*

The conclusion was very awesome.

The opening dialogue was the best in the book yet...

"Be Strong Captain, What Is There To Be Afraid Of? He's Only Death".


And Rawlins got his.
 
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*

Rawlins should of known better than to try his little trick with the knife. I also had to respect the way the General went. I thought he might cower when the Punisher was at him but he didn't. Man of stone indeed. Just gave Mr. Castle the facts.
 
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*

#43 rocked. You can tell Ennis is mocking Desperate Housewives with these crazy chicks.

And the end... woah.
 
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*

Frank it seems is going to have his hands full....I'm looking forward to finding out exactly what those women did to our lady that we saw beating that man in half with her fists.
 
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*

Obviously they cut her **** off... and I'm pretty sure that's not the only thing they did. I'm more concerned with why they went to such an extreme... :shock:
 
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*

Obviously they cut her **** off... and I'm pretty sure that's not the only thing they did. I'm more concerned with why they went to such an extreme... :shock:

The **** I know, but like you, I'm sure that's not the only thing they did either. What did this woman do and what is she going to do these women when she more than likely gets her hands on them? I wonder if even Frank will say "damn".
 
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*

Do we have a future type Punisher coming?


And the way he handled the kiddie ring. Hardcore.
 
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*

This, I think, is one of the best comics I'm reading at the moment. It's just ****ing superb.
 
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*

#44 was hardcore.

The looks on the kids' faces whose parents Frank killed was creepy as I-don't-know-what. Especially the older one; he was catatonic.

I'm not sure I understand who the woman is at the end sitting at the table eavesdropping on the widows. Maybe I just need ot go back and reread the previous issue...?
 
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*

#44 was hardcore.

The looks on the kids' faces whose parents Frank killed was creepy as I-don't-know-what. Especially the older one; he was catatonic.

I'm not sure I understand who the woman is at the end sitting at the table eavesdropping on the widows. Maybe I just need ot go back and reread the previous issue...?

The chick with no boobs from eariler.
 
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*

"Jenny Cesare" I believe.

This is one of the most enjoyable comics I've ever read. I love it. And the Barracuda mini is superb! It pikcs up where the Barracuda arc finishes - they explain away his death in just a sentence. I love it. ^_____^
 
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*

Wow.......I just got caught up with the new "Widowmaker" arc. Wow... :shock:


I still have no clue who the boob-less chick is and how she's gonna play into this.

I liked that Ennis actually went back and drew from actual past victims of Frank that we know of and not some random women hellbent on revenge. It makes it easier to connect with them and also how he's beginning to tie in past events from his series.

Now whether or not that helps or hinders the book is yet to be seen. I always liked the fact that each of the arcs were independant and a new reader could come in and pick up wherever they felt like instead of having to read "Up Is Down, Black Is White" in order to get what was behind "Man of Stone". But I guess that's neither here nor there.




Another thing I loved was how Ennis carefully separated the "2 Franks". There's always been 2 sides to Castle. There's the side that carries out the evil necessities in a straight-forward manner like taking out mob bosses with .50cal. Boom and straight to the point. Then there's the sadistic side that takes pleasure in torturing someone because they deserve it. Seeing how kills a man measures how much personal hatred is involved for him. It shows his heart and the part that makes him human.............albeit a bit twisted for his ability to do these things.

And in this difference is what the women take note of and plan to exploit.




On another Punisher note----like Moony and several others who've noted this---Ennis has crafted Frank to not have an actual origin. But instead a man formed by the horrific events in his life. In this aspect, we get actual character development that separates this incarnation of Frank from the one dimensional gun-toting killer in the past.

I've noticed thru the series that Frank was actually on the way to caring again looked to be on the road to humanity once again with O'Brien. Whether he wanted to admit it or not---he developed feelings for her. Her death hit him (which I expect will be played out in the future). So the character seemed to grow, and just when you thought it looked like he might actually stop what he's doing and could possibly have a life again---the one thing in the world he cared about was killed. Thus driving him back into the darkness.

**** me this book is orgasmic.





And the Barracuda mini is indeed flippin' amazing! Expect more from me on this in the future.
 
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*

It's a damn fine comic. I love how you say Ennis has 'deepened' the Punisher by saying 'the focal point of his becoming the Punisher is not the death of his family', and showing that Frank has always had these tendencies.

I love it because you say he 'deepened' it - but look at what he did. He lessened it. He said, "you don't know how Frank went crazy. He's kinda always been this way."

He's LESSENED the explanation to his motivation for killing, yet you think he's DEEPENED it.

And deepened it he has, for this simple reason: YOU, the reader of the comic, now involve yourself more fully into The Punisher's frame of mind as you draw from yourself the conclusions for his drive. What made Punisher the Punisher? The death of his family? The Vietnam war? Or that incident that occurred when he was a kid?

Ennis has magnificently enriched the character by demonstrating a simple truth - one event does not make a person. There is no 'specific' reason, no sole cause, that people do the things they do for what they want.

And he understands that to involve an audience, you leave the mystery to motivations. You state clearly WHAT the characters want, but you leave their reasons for wanting it, vague.

I can't stand it when someone goes, "Oh, I kill people because I was felt up as a kid" or "I want to save the world because my friend died" or whatever.

The mystery of characters' motivations is integral. The Byronic hero is a mystery man, because, characters are not people - they're works of art. They can't stand up to scrutinity. So the mystery is needed to keep them interesting, and to draw the audience further into them.

If you explain the motivation, you not only alienate the audience (who rightly feel as if, "why am I even here?"), but you trivialise the character by boiling them down to a single event. Think about it - when is Spider-Man annoying? When he goes, "I'm Spidey because my uncle died. My uncle died and it was my fault." Get over it! "I'm Batman because my parents died. This makes me Batman. I'm sad." Get over it! They're goddamn whiners, their motivation is bollocks.

However, such events can be used incredibly well, not to explain motivation, but to deepen and enrich conflicts - look at "Up is Down and Black is White" to see the use of backstory to create story and conflict. Punisher doesn't ***** about why he's Punisher. Now, while it's true, Spidey is a different character and maybe, would complain about his lot - Ennis' Punisher talks just as much as Spidey, and his thoughts are not explaining his motivation. It's counterpoint narration designed to add to a progressing, turning, story. The whining of Spidey (or Batman) halts narrative drive, stagnating the story as the character explains why he does what he does - resulting in the audience stepping out of the character and feeling for the character. But before, they were feeling WITH the character.

I find this title exhilerating to read.
 
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*

through that whole rant you made Bass, all i could think of was BKV and why i loved his Runaways...and i agree with ya and VVD. what Ennis also does best is he provides the story from more than just one viewpoint.

you don't just see it from Franks side, you see how scared people really are of Frank and what there trying to do.

he did the same thing with Preacher, he gave you J. Custers side. and also brought you into the mind of the twisted freak he was up against that arc.
 
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*

I have a question regarding continuity, basically Ennis wrote punisher when it was on marvel knights and now he's on it on MAX, but is it a continuation, and is Punisher MAX taking place in 616? or is it in it's own MAX verse with some of the other titles like Cage and Fury, or is it like Ennis-verse?..I'm basically asking a good place to start, I read a couple of the one shots (tyger and the end) and I love preacher so I want to get into this, just wondered if I jump in to Punisher MAX will that spoil the marvel knights run..I doubt it but I want to make sure.
 
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*

I have a question regarding continuity, basically Ennis wrote punisher when it was on marvel knights and now he's on it on MAX, but is it a continuation, and is Punisher MAX taking place in 616? or is it in it's own MAX verse with some of the other titles like Cage and Fury, or is it like Ennis-verse?..I'm basically asking a good place to start, I read a couple of the one shots (tyger and the end) and I love preacher so I want to get into this, just wondered if I jump in to Punisher MAX will that spoil the marvel knights run..I doubt it but I want to make sure.

Continuity is kind of tricky, but Punisher MAX is pretty much stand alone. It's basically Ennis's versions of characters, so it doesn't affect regular 616 continuity or whatever.
 
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*

Continuity is kind of tricky, but Punisher MAX is pretty much stand alone. It's basically Ennis's versions of characters, so it doesn't affect regular 616 continuity or whatever.
But isn't all placed in 616, even though it stays away from what goes on everywhere else?
 
Re: Punisher MAX Series Discussion *Spoilers*

But isn't all placed in 616, even though it stays away from what goes on everywhere else?

No clue. I wouldn't think so, especially since War Journal may contradict some things, and Ennis's Fury is way different.
 

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