Lost *spoilers*

captaincanuck65 said:
and has anyone else thought about the fact that "crazy mother" was adamant that MiB can never leave the island, but Jacob does it all the time? What does that mean?
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I think that I recall the writers saying the protector of the island could leave for official business. I think the crazy mother didn't want him to leave cause it would mean he'll never comeback(due to the technology of the time to actually find the island) and would be forever in the world of "evil men"
 
I disliked this episode, too.

That's the resolution we get between Ben and Widmore?

First Locke tells Ben that the island can be all his in the beginning of the season, Ben rejects that... And all of a sudden now he wants to be a villain again? And what's more is Locke said it again -- that Ben could have the island once he was gone -- but then at the very end Locke tells Ben that he's going to destroy it? If Ben doesn't turn against the Smoke Monster...

What did they hire Loeb back on for this last season? OR did they just let their 10 year old children write it for them?

Captain Canuck brought up a great point. Why can Jacob leave? I bet they hadn't thought of that or they hadn't taken that into consideration at all. Poor way to end Lost, I'm very disappointed.
 
Much in the same way we were to infer that the temple is how young Ben got cured when Sayid shot him, I think perhaps we're to infer that the mirrors in the lighthouse might be how Jacob projected himself into everyone's lives. Not a great explanation, but it's all we got.
 
Goodwill said:
I disliked this episode, too.

That's the resolution we get between Ben and Widmore?

First Locke tells Ben that the island can be all his in the beginning of the season, Ben rejects that... And all of a sudden now he wants to be a villain again? And what's more is Locke said it again -- that Ben could have the island once he was gone -- but then at the very end Locke tells Ben that he's going to destroy it? If Ben doesn't turn against the Smoke Monster...
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I believe it's because Ben saw Widmore and the death of his daughter, he wanted revenge. So he used the monster to screw over Widmore, but when Charles wanted to save his daughter Ben decides not to wait and surprisingly succeeds in killing Widmore. I thought that was a pretty good ending to it, just a simple jester displaying his outrage when Widmore was willing to sacrifice the island for his daughter. And on this point I don't get how you can see this possibility, Ben is dealing with a creature that has single handedly wiped out almost all the Others. So he uses the most powerful weapon in his arsenal, he lies. Even if he isn't seeing the killer of his daughter on the island invoked powerful emotions in him. I believe the scene with him in the Rousseau household was to demonstrate how much being a father means to him.
Captain Canuck brought up a great point. Why can Jacob leave? I bet they hadn't thought of that or they hadn't taken that into consideration at all. Poor way to end Lost, I'm very disappointed.
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Dancanread said:
Much in the same way we were to infer that the temple is how young Ben got cured when Sayid shot him, I think perhaps we're to infer that the mirrors in the lighthouse might be how Jacob projected himself into everyone's lives. Not a great explanation, but it's all we got.
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You know I've been thinking about why people keep asking this, did at anytime in the course of the show say that Jacob couldn't leave? I mean we know MIB is bound to the island, the mother said he can't find a way to leave. Which I think was to help him accept his role as successor, since he couldn't figure out the right course and sail away. Also when he demonstrate other means of leaving that's when she choose Jacob. And as the Smoke Monster his attachment to the island seems like something must stronger that knowing the right course heading and turning the wheel. I mean we've seen people able to leave the island at will, it was just about knowing the right course heading. So why wouldn't he, or anyone other than the Smoke Monster, not be able to leave the island?
 
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Random said:
You know I've been thinking about why people keep asking this, did at anytime in the course of the show say that Jacob couldn't leave? I mean we know MIB is bound to the island, the mother said he can't find a way to leave. Which I think was to help him accept his role as successor, since he couldn't figure out the right course and sail away. Also when he demonstrate other means of leaving that's when she choose Jacob. And as the Smoke Monster his attachment to the island seems like something must stronger that knowing the right course heading and turning the wheel. I mean we've seen people able to leave the island at will, it was just about knowing the right course heading. So why wouldn't he, or anyone other than the Smoke Monster, not be able to leave the island?
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I don't think it's ever been said explicitly that he can't leave the island, but I think the reason why most people bring this up is it's been strongly implied that he can't, or at the very least, seeing as he's been charged with guarding the place and keeping Smokey there, it'd be a bad idea to leave for any length of time. As we've both suggested, there are certainly possible ways for him to get off if he were able. But to turn around now and have them say, "We never said he couldn't leave" would be a little cheap.
 
The problem is Jacob is an *******. "Across the Sea" made the Man in Black the sympathetic character - I didn't care for Jacob at all. The Man in Black was the one that was trapped there by a crazy ***** who then killed all of his people and destroyed what he was working on. And then Jacob kills him. He also brought a plane to the island, killing all of those people in the process just to get his replacement. It doesn't sound like they had much of a choice to me. He's a hypocrite.

That dismissal about the names on the cave wall also annoyed me. The numbers and the names mean nothing.
 
With Jacob, leaving there are a slew of new concerns that I have... If he left for even a day why wouldn't the Smoke Monster take advantage at and destroy it then so that Jacob would have nothing to return to? Oh, because he can't find the source of the light? Even though he accessed it via the various wells all over the island? With all the vagueness in this show now it is hard for any of it to be a cohesive, well thought out storyline. Each season after the third was dismissed by the one that followed it, essentially. It really is a shame that I am turning on Lost like this... I feel like I'm watching Heroes...
 
Goodwill said:
With Jacob, leaving there are a slew of new concerns that I have... If he left for even a day why wouldn't the Smoke Monster take advantage at and destroy it then so that Jacob would have nothing to return to? .
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Great theory. Would be better if it wasn't contradicted by the Monster's entire role in "What They Died For."
 
All of the concerns raised on this forum are easily addressed by five seconds of consideration. Seriously.

Benjamin Linus obviously has an ulterior motive, and has from his very first interaction with MiB. "I always have a plan", remember? Widmore's murder was abrupt, but given the underlying animosity between the two, I felt it was appropriate. During the entire conversation he had with MiB you can practically feel Ben's anger welling up, until he deals with his problems in the only way he knows how; by eliminating them. It's been his M.O. since his introduction, and I didn't really have a problem with it, especially given Widmore's earlier revelation that Jacob had come to see him. If anything gets under Ben's skin, it's Jacob ignoring him in favor of others. As if this weren't enough, Random basically sums up the "dead daughter" subplot concisely.

I'm not sure why everyone's throwing a tantrum about Jacob's international travels, given that he has free access to a power source that's been shown capable of transporting people all around the globe. It's never said that Jacob's physical presence on the island is what keeps MiB from leaving; just that Jacob's "rules" prevent him from doing so, which exist as long as he is alive and/or has a successor (the candidates). Regardless if MiB can access the heart of the island via satellite wells, the protector of the island obviously has some sort of affect over how it functions, and Jacob's made it so that MiB can't leave.
 
Dancanread said:
I don't think it's ever been said explicitly that he can't leave the island, but I think the reason why most people bring this up is it's been strongly implied that he can't, or at the very least, seeing as he's been charged with guarding the place and keeping Smokey there, it'd be a bad idea to leave for any length of time. As we've both suggested, there are certainly possible ways for him to get off if he were able. But to turn around now and have them say, "We never said he couldn't leave" would be a little cheap.
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I don't even see where it's strongly implied he can't leave. You're assuming he has to be there every second of every day. I think there just has to be a guardian present to keep the well hidden

ProjectX2 said:
The problem is Jacob is an *******. "Across the Sea" made the Man in Black the sympathetic character - I didn't care for Jacob at all. The Man in Black was the one that was trapped there by a crazy ***** who then killed all of his people and destroyed what he was working on. And then Jacob kills him. He also brought a plane to the island, killing all of those people in the process just to get his replacement. It doesn't sound like they had much of a choice to me. He's a hypocrite.

That dismissal about the names on the cave wall also annoyed me. The numbers and the names mean nothing.
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I agree he's a bit of a god-complex ass, but it seems he tries his best to only involve people who had imperfect lives. And really if you look at his point of view he's tries to preserve All Life Everywhere. And he's lived long enough to see thousands of people die just from nature, why not have them die at least for a purpose. And when he said choice he was talking about bear the weight, duty, and responsibility he's had to endure. And you say he's so unsympathetic towards all these death I'll remind you he's dead, he was stabbed and he burned to death. His willingness to be killed showed me that he wants to save the island by any means, even his death.

As for the caves, I like that it was a sensible way of explaining how he choose a successor. I saw the crossing off as meaning they either died, prove too wrong for the role, or got a good life he didn't want to have to force them to change.
Goodwill said:
With Jacob, leaving there are a slew of new concerns that I have... If he left for even a day why wouldn't the Smoke Monster take advantage at and destroy it then so that Jacob would have nothing to return to? Oh, because he can't find the source of the light? Even though he accessed it via the various wells all over the island? With all the vagueness in this show now it is hard for any of it to be a cohesive, well thought out storyline. Each season after the third was dismissed by the one that followed it, essentially. It really is a shame that I am turning on Lost like this... I feel like I'm watching Heroes...
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You have a point about the well, I'm thinking they may just be an off shoot of the main well. But really we don't know enough about what the role of guardian to emphatically state that he should be unable to leave the island. What does he do on a daily basis, you make it sound like he battles the smoke monster daily. He doesn't when Alpert first met Jacob, he didn't know the MIB was killing everyone. Jacob wasn't following MIB's every move. What does he do every second of everyday that makes it so important the every bit of that time is spent on the island? I think he just because linked to the cave of light and as long as a candidate or guardian still lives, once they all die the cave of light is unguarded. His job simply is to protect the island, and that means he may have to leave it to touch the candidates. I'm betting the mother wasn't trapped on the island, but currently technology kept her from leaving, since it would be liking she wouldn't get back anytime soon.

I'm just really not seeing this one-to-one on the guardian role and presence on the island, since the first time we saw Jacob he's been off the island. I just seems to me the caves need a caretaker not a member of the Grenadier Guards.

And Goodwill I just completely disagree that this season is somehow not cohesive. I'm not trying to put down your opinion or really to start an argument. I don't see how you can think that and I've found this season to be very good.

Gideon Stargrave said:
All of the concerns raised on this forum are easily addressed by five seconds of consideration. Seriously.

Benjamin Linus obviously has an ulterior motive, and has from his very first interaction with MiB. "I always have a plan", remember? Widmore's murder was abrupt, but given the underlying animosity between the two, I felt it was appropriate. During the entire conversation he had with MiB you can practically feel Ben's anger welling up, until he deals with his problems in the only way he knows how; by eliminating them. It's been his M.O. since his introduction, and I didn't really have a problem with it, especially given Widmore's earlier revelation that Jacob had come to see him. If anything gets under Ben's skin, it's Jacob ignoring him in favor of others. As if this weren't enough, Random basically sums up the "dead daughter" subplot concisely.

I'm not sure why everyone's throwing a tantrum about Jacob's international travels, given that he has free access to a power source that's been shown capable of transporting people all around the globe. It's never said that Jacob's physical presence on the island is what keeps MiB from leaving; just that Jacob's "rules" prevent him from doing so, which exist as long as he is alive and/or has a successor (the candidates). Regardless if MiB can access the heart of the island via satellite wells, the protector of the island obviously has some sort of affect over how it functions, and Jacob's made it so that MiB can't leave.
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I hate it when someone sums up my point better than I do, specially when it's right before I post it.
 
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the point about Jacob leaving the island is that the whole point about the MiB is that he's NOT allowed to leave, even before he becomes smokey, he's not allowed to leave. Why then is Jacob allowed to leave? What's special about the MiB that he has to be trapped on the island?

And that line about the chalk on the cave wall had to be untrue, b/c MiB can't kill the candidates so there has to be significance to them and the numbers. I also think that maybe Jacob lied about taking them out of unhappy lives and wanting to give them a choice. He's been influencing things for their whole lives and manipulating them all along.
 
captaincanuck65 said:
the point about Jacob leaving the island is that the whole point about the MiB is that he's NOT allowed to leave, even before he becomes smokey, he's not allowed to leave. Why then is Jacob allowed to leave? What's special about the MiB that he has to be trapped on the island?
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Jacob's predecessor (and surrogate mother) prevented MiB from leaving because she knew that he'd never come back. The episode made it clear that he was her favorite in one way or another, and she hardly wanted her preferred son running off. It wasn't that he couldn't leave, so much as she was just preventing him from doing so. Once he bonded with the darkness in the heart of the island (or whatever happened after Jacob threw him into the stream...), Jacob institutes a new rule that actually physically prevented his leaving. Jacob himself is allowed to leave because there's no such restriction on him.
 
So in preparation for Sunday's Series Finale, I've been catching up on all the Season 6 episodes. I'm only up to Happily Ever After, which I thought was awesome. In fact, the Desmond-centric episodes always seem to be the best and most thoroughly satisfying.

My only complaint with Season 6 is Locke. I hate the Smoke Monster is Locke idea. I understand it from a storytelling perspective, but from a character-fulfillment perspective, Locke's getting shafted.

When Locke came to the island, he more than any other survivor understood his place on the island, and his inherent destiny associated with it (now, its the total opposite). Not only did he gain the ability to walk back, but he always had some deeper understanding of the island than any other survivor, including Jack. Then he is murdered by Ben and for all of this season we've been forced to choke down MIB-Locke.

It just doesn't seem right. For most of the show, there was this slow build up for a greater destiny for Locke than just being murdered in a hotel room by Ben (in my opinion, anyway). He deserves better.

Granted, theres still the finale, and I'm sure the REAL Locke's story isn't over yet. And no, Alternate Reality Locke doesn't count, either.
 
I have a feeling we'll see Locke ghost before the end, hopefully that brings his story to a proper close
 
Even if the writers have said that Locke won't be coming back to life ("Dead is dead" after all), you need to keep in mind that they are all dirty liars. They went to so much trouble with Locke's burial that I sort of wonder if anyone's going to dig him back up.
 
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